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  1. #101
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Well-educated and concise.
    Well-educated and concise = well informed and concise?



  2. #102
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Has it ever occured to anyone involved to let the people of Taiwan decide?
    Nvm, they already have.

  3. #103
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    I am not pro China. I would have been against recognizing China. But the US did that to try and change China. And now it wants to reverse it to try and change China. How about we stop trying to change China ? But it's too late now. The US created this monster. Now we are going to try and fight a war to bring them down. Just like the British tried to cut Germany down in ww1. How did that work. Britain lost its empire. That's how

    United States announces that it will recognize communist China - HISTORY

    THIS DAY IN HISTORY

    DECEMBER 15

    1978

    United States announces that it will recognize communist China

    In one of the most dramatic announcements of the Cold War, President Jimmy Carter states that as of January 1, 1979, the United States will formally recognize the communist People’s Republic of China (PRC) and sever relations with Taiwan.
    Last edited by Backspin; 15-04-2021 at 06:59 AM.

  4. #104
    last farang standing
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    ^ A, but the difference between HK and Taiwan is huge.
    HK was part of China and on lease. HKers knew this accepted it. Taiwanese are the opposite.


    And if China invades . . . they will be an occupying force. Not such a good PR look and unsustainable. Think they can sink even lower in terms of their neighbours trusting them?
    If I remember correctly only the new territories were on lease. The rest was a British Territory, but I think the Brits concluded Hong kong was not viable without the leased territories and Hong kong became the bargaining chip. I'm sure there's a few more knowledgeable than me on the subject.
    IMO the U.S.A does not need to win a war over Taiwan but it can in partnership with other countries, make sure the chinese pay a very heavy price to take Taiwan, both militarily and economically, starting with Hong Kong.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    If I remember correctly only the new territories were on lease. The rest was a British Territory, but I think the Brits concluded Hong kong was not viable without the leased territories and Hong kong became the bargaining chip. I'm sure there's a few more knowledgeable than me on the subject.
    IMO the U.S.A does not need to win a war over Taiwan but it can in partnership with other countries, make sure the chinese pay a very heavy price to take Taiwan, both militarily and economically, starting with Hong Kong.
    Hong Kong Island was ceded in perpetuity. Later, the Kowloon peninsula as far north as Boundary Street was also ceded in perpetuity. Finally the New Territories were leased until 1997. Come '97, even if the Chinese did nothing, the Brits would have been obliged to withdraw to Boundary Street and that would have been an impossible siuation. I feel that HK people were lucky to have had a few extra years. I hope that the international community doesn't try to make a big play over HK now, there cannot be any benefit to the millions who call the city home.

  6. #106
    Thailand Expat helge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    In fact it is about ideology, again my personal opinion, in that the CCP cannot tolerate any suggestion of a democracy existing within China. Since it claims Taiwan as part of China it must act to exterminate that democracy.
    Well the conflict couldn't be about democrazy earlier, as Taiwan had a quite "firm" millitary rule into late 80'ies.
    Most have been about territory, pride or something else then

    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    At the end of WWII, I think it was an American decision to take Taiwan off Japan and give it to China,
    Cairo conference 1943

    I am pro Taiwan independence
    For ideology reasons

    But I do not have a say

    The Taiwanese people should decide that

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post

    Cairo conference 1943
    Yes, OhOh mentioned the Cairo Conference. I didn't recall it so I had a look. In the end, the settlement with Japan only happened at the Treaty of San Francisco in 1951. Neither the PRC nor the RoC was invited, same with North and South Korea.
    If I understand it correctly, the Treaty only required Japan to withdraw from Taiwan and some other islands, it ducked the issue of who should run them. As the sitting government, that left Taiwan under the control of the KMT/RoC and so it has remained for seventy years.

  8. #108
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    As the sitting government, that left Taiwan under the control of the KMT/RoC and so it has remained for seventy years.
    Yep same fellas the Cairo Conference gave Taiwan to.

  9. #109
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Yep same fellas the Cairo Conference gave Taiwan to.
    At the time he was recognised as the head of the Chinese government.

    The Cairo Conference

    China flies at least 20 war planes in Taiwan airspace-500px-cairo_conference-jpg

    "The meeting was attended by President of the United States Franklin Roosevelt, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Winston Churchill, and Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek of the Republic of China. Soviet leader Joseph Stalin did not attend the conference as his meeting with Chiang could have caused friction between the Soviet Union and Japan. (The Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact of 1941 was a five-year agreement of neutrality between the two nations; in 1943 the Soviet Union was not yet at war with Japan, whereas China, the U.K. and the U.S. were)
    The Cairo meeting was held at a residence of the American ambassador to Egypt, Alexander Kirk, near the Giza Pyramid complex, about 8 miles from the city center of Cairo itself. [2]
    Two days later Stalin met with Roosevelt and Churchill in Tehran, Iran for the Tehran Conference. "

    The three leaders discussed and decided on an agreement.


    Of course ameristan threw his government under a bus when :

    Nixon's China's Visit and "Sino-U.S. Joint Communiqué"

    "On 21 February 1972, President Nixon and his party arrived in Beijing and paid a 7-day historic visit to China. During the visit, President Nixon met with Chairman Mao Zedong and held talks with Premier Zhou Enlai. The two sides exchanged views on the international situation and, in particular, on Sino-U.S. relations focussing on the Indo-China question and the Taiwan question.

    After repeated consultations, the Chinese and the U.S. sides finally issued the Joint Communiqué in Shanghai (also known as the Shanghai Communiqué) on 28 February 1972.

    On its part, the U.S. side states: The United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States Government does not challenge that position. It reaffirms its interest in a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves"

    https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/ziliao_665539/3602_665543/3604_665547/t18006.shtml

    Reaffirmed:

    "On January 1, 1979, the United States recognized the PRC and established diplomatic relations with it as the sole legitimate government of China. On the same day, the United States withdrew its recognition of, and terminated diplomatic relations with, the Republic of China as the government of China."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93United_States_relations#Normalizatio n

    But as many have realised ameristan leaders "talk with forked Tongue".

    National Laws, Treaties, Communiqué, UNSC Resolutions ....


    China flies at least 20 war planes in Taiwan airspace-fork-tongue-jpg
    Last edited by OhOh; 15-04-2021 at 09:44 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  10. #110
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    Klondyke's Avatar
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    Better not to provoke...

    China flies at least 20 war planes in Taiwan airspace-taiwan-route-jpg

  11. #111
    I'm in Jail

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    Polite chappies, those Brits

  12. #112
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    At the time he was recognised as the head of the Chinese government.
    Yes he was. The head of the Republic of China which still exists on the island of Taiwan today. Regardless of what the other China claims belongs to them it simply doesn't and never has.

    The people of Taiwan though their votes for multiple political parties which form 2 large coalitions clearly want nothing to do with being governed by the PRC.

    The position of the Pan-Blue Coalition, which comprises the Kuomintang (KMT), the People First Party and the New Party is to eventually incorporate the mainland into the ROC. Wow, imagine that!

    The position of Pan-Green Coalition, composed of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) and the Taiwan Solidarity Union, is to pursue Taiwan independence.

    The current leadership of the PRC has absolutely no legal right to Taiwan and the last thing the people of Taiwan want is being subject to PRC rule.

    Given this Xi better back off because as his predecessor wisely noted an invasion of Taiwan would bring the international community down on them and fuel revolutionaries in the mainland.
    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect,"

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