Thread: China flies at least 20 war planes in Taiwan airspace

Originally Posted by OhOh

Are you disputing the Chinese government's working procedures the messenger has posted?

I suppose that would depend on whether you would define me laughing at your shit chinky propaganda from a fully paid up chinky stooge "disputing".

Chris Devonshire-Ellis

Chairman & Founding Partner Russia & China Belt Road Initiative Office

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

As if the fucking chinkies need any excuse to get their whiny tits in a wringer.

You , are an idiot.

Originally Posted by misskit

Again, where does the US openly state it wants to make Taiwan a military outpost?

Perhaps it is only your opinion the US wants to make Taiwan a military outpost.

I think the US just wants to sell Taiwan the equipment to defend themselves and if they can’t maybe step in to defend them.

Why wouldn't that be the end conclusion ? Unless China does something , first it will be one US destroyer , then eventually an aircraft carrier will be docking there. And that is totally unacceptable for China.

Is Xi a dictator ? Let's ask Democratic candidate Mike Bloomberg on US state television

Originally Posted by Backspin

Again, where does the US openly state it wants to make Taiwan a military outpost?

Originally Posted by Backspin

Why wouldn't that be the end conclusion ?

So, it is only your opinion. It is a lie that the “US openly states it wants to make Taiwan a military outpost”. You made it up.

Originally Posted by misskit

So, it is only your opinion. It is a lie that the “US openly states it wants to make Taiwan a military outpost”. You made it up.

From the article 'Arry posted

Taiwan should also be invited to multilateral military drills such as the U.S.-led Rim of the Pacific naval exercises for vessels from countries on both sides of the Pacific Ocean

It goes without saying ! Why wouldn't the US base it's military on Taiwan if it could , to protect Taiwan's "democracy" ?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I suppose that would depend on

I'll take that you agree with the:

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Chinese government's working procedures

Originally Posted by misskit

It is a lie that the “US openly states it wants to make Taiwan a military outpost”.

You have access to all of Taiwan and ameristani government agreements, public and secret?

Originally Posted by OhOh

You have access to all of Taiwan and ameristani government agreements, public and secret?

Don't you know what the word "openly" means?

Originally Posted by OhOh

I'll take that you agree with the:

Nothing that you say - or crib - on the subject, that's for sure, it's all bollocks.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Nothing that you say - or crib -

Similar to others, I don't write "the news" that I/they post in the "thailand-and-asia-news" thread 'arry.

Originally Posted by Backspin

But taking over a historic Chinese land in Taiwan is not being a global tyrant. They see it as China proper as any Chinese leader would.

Which of these claims to address first? Neither, the first problem is that you present as fact things which are opinions. From where they come I do not know.

"historic Chinese land": Look, the Chinese Communist Party is quick to label anything it fancies as "historic Chinese land". Tibet, the South China Sea, parts of Japan, India. Next it might be Tashkent because some Chinese chap rode a camel there a few hundred years ago, or the Pacific islands because their languages are related to Taiwanese aboriginals, so it was all Chinese once.

Things are very much more nuanced than you suggest. Taiwan was never overseen by the Ming dynasty or earlier dynasties, it was basically tribal. Then the Dutch colonized much of the island. Then the Spanish colonized the north. Then the Dutch and Spanish had a spat. Next Koxinga turned up and turfed out the Dutch. Koxinga is really complicated because he is loved by three opposing camps. He was half Japanese, born in Japan and still feted there. He is highly regarded by the PRC because he brought the first ethnic Han administration to Taiwan. BUT, he went to Taiwan as a freedom fighter, loyal to the Ming, trying to resist Qing rule, so he is compared with Chiang Kai-shek resisting the communists and is still a popular figure in Taiwan. Koxinga died and there was some later Qing control over some parts of Taiwan, never all of it. (This is from memory, some details might be misremembered.) At the end of the first Sino-Japanese War, Taiwan was ceded to Japan and it was administered by the Japanese for the next 50 years. At the end of WWII, I think it was an American decision to take Taiwan off Japan and give it to China, faced with a choice they gave it to the most legitimate government at the time which was Chiang Kai-shek's Republic of China, then in Nanjing. To me (opinion) this is the first time that Taiwan became part of a unified China. Chiang then managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory at the hands of the Communists and, like Koxinga, fled to Taiwan to lead the resistance. We need to be clear that the CCP has never, ever controlled any part of Taiwan. So you choose your point in history and you'll find various historic claims.

"China proper as any Chinese leader would": The problem is that both the PRC and the RoC see themselves as the legitimate leaders of a unified China. It is essentially an unfinished civil war. Real politik suggests that the RoC isn't going to win this one but if you take a more ethical view then really the RoC's claim isn't inferior to the CCP's claim. IMHO.

All this isn't mainly about territory. China has deep water ports north and south of Taiwan, the US has bases nearby in Japan. In fact it is about ideology, again my personal opinion, in that the CCP cannot tolerate any suggestion of a democracy existing within China. Since it claims Taiwan as part of China it must act to exterminate that democracy. They have finally achieved that in Hong Kong. Only Taiwan remains, for now.

Excellent post.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Similar to others, I don't write "the news" that I/they post in the "thailand-and-asia-news" thread 'arry.

You don't post news either. You just post government propaganda and weird, stupid blogs.

Originally Posted by Shutree

the CCP cannot tolerate any suggestion of a democracy existing within China. Since it claims Taiwan as part of China it must act to exterminate that democracy. They have finally achieved that in Hong Kong. Only Taiwan remains, for now.

Exactly right. Mr. Shithole is paranoid that his massive dictatorial house of cards will all come crashing down.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Nobody gave Taiwan to China.

And that's why China doesn't own it.

Originally Posted by Shutree

Which of these claims to address first? Neither, the first problem is that you present as fact things which are opinions. From where they come I do not know.

"historic Chinese land": Look, the Chinese Communist Party is quick to label anything it fancies as "historic Chinese land". Tibet, the South China Sea, parts of Japan, India. Next it might be Tashkent because some Chinese chap rode a camel there a few hundred years ago, or the Pacific islands because their languages are related to Taiwanese aboriginals, so it was all Chinese once.

Things are very much more nuanced than you suggest. Taiwan was never overseen by the Ming dynasty or earlier dynasties, it was basically tribal. Then the Dutch colonized much of the island. Then the Spanish colonized the north. Then the Dutch and Spanish had a spat. Next Koxinga turned up and turfed out the Dutch. Koxinga is really complicated because he is loved by three opposing camps. He was half Japanese, born in Japan and still feted there. He is highly regarded by the PRC because he brought the first ethnic Han administration to Taiwan. BUT, he went to Taiwan as a freedom fighter, loyal to the Ming, trying to resist Qing rule, so he is compared with Chiang Kai-shek resisting the communists and is still a popular figure in Taiwan. Koxinga died and there was some later Qing control over some parts of Taiwan, never all of it. (This is from memory, some details might be misremembered.) At the end of the first Sino-Japanese War, Taiwan was ceded to Japan and it was administered by the Japanese for the next 50 years. At the end of WWII, I think it was an American decision to take Taiwan off Japan and give it to China, faced with a choice they gave it to the most legitimate government at the time which was Chiang Kai-shek's Republic of China, then in Nanjing. To me (opinion) this is the first time that Taiwan became part of a unified China. Chiang then managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory at the hands of the Communists and, like Koxinga, fled to Taiwan to lead the resistance. We need to be clear that the CCP has never, ever controlled any part of Taiwan. So you choose your point in history and you'll find various historic claims.

"China proper as any Chinese leader would": The problem is that both the PRC and the RoC see themselves as the legitimate leaders of a unified China. It is essentially an unfinished civil war. Real politik suggests that the RoC isn't going to win this one but if you take a more ethical view then really the RoC's claim isn't inferior to the CCP's claim. IMHO.

All this isn't mainly about territory. China has deep water ports north and south of Taiwan, the US has bases nearby in Japan. In fact it is about ideology, again my personal opinion, in that the CCP cannot tolerate any suggestion of a democracy existing within China. Since it claims Taiwan as part of China it must act to exterminate that democracy. They have finally achieved that in Hong Kong. Only Taiwan remains, for now.

Taiwan it not recognized as a country at the UN , the US or even the international aviation protocols.

the first problem is that you present as fact things which are opinions. From where they come I do not know

This is all just realpolitik. Realpolitik is politics or diplomacy based primarily on considerations of given circumstances and factors, rather than explicit ideological notions or moral and ethical premises. In this respect, it shares aspects of its philosophical approach with those of realism and pragmatism.

Chinese Communist Party is quick to label anything it fancies as "historic Chinese land". Tibet, the South China Sea, parts of Japan, India

Argumentum ad absurdum. Japan is under the US nuclear umbrella. India is a nuclear power. Yet you are comparing these with a territorial part of China in Tibet and Taiwan which is not a recognized country.

China has deep water ports north and south of Taiwan, the US has bases nearby in Japan. In fact it is about ideology, again my personal opinion, in that the CCP cannot tolerate any suggestion of a democracy existing within China. Since it claims Taiwan as part of China it must act to exterminate that democracy. They have finally achieved that in Hong Kong. Only Taiwan remains, for now.

China is fine with the status quo. It is not China that is renouncing the one China policy. That is the US. If the US does not send war ships or diplomats to Taiwan, the status quo will remain. And Taiwan can keep the democratic system.

Hong Kong never had democracy. It is a city state like Dubai or Singapore.

As Biden's emissaries go to Taiwan, China terms exercises 'combat drills'

BEIJING (Reuters) -China described its military exercises near Taiwan as “combat drills” on Wednesday, upping the ante as senior former U.S. officials arrived in Taipei on a trip to signal President Joe Biden’s commitment to Taiwan and its democracy.

Taiwan has complained over the proximity of repeated Chinese military activity, including fighter jets and bombers entering its air defence zone and a Chinese aircraft carrier exercising off the island, which is claimed by Beijing.


Twenty-five Chinese air force aircraft, including fighters and nuclear-capable bombers, entered Taiwan’s air defence identification zone (ADIZ) on Monday, the largest reported incursion by Taipei to date.


China’s Taiwan Affairs Office said Taiwan’s government and separatists were colluding with “external forces”.


“The People’s Liberation Army’s organising of actual combat exercises in the Taiwan Strait is a necessary action to address the current security situation in the Taiwan Strait and to safeguard national sovereignty,” spokesman Ma Xiaoguang said.


“It is a solemn response to external forces’ interference and provocations by Taiwan independence” forces, he added.


“The PLA’s military exercises and training operations are sending a signal that our determination to curb Taiwan independence and Taiwan-U.S. collusion is not just talk.”



Senior former U.S. officials arrive in Taiwan


China has previously offered little public comment on its recent military movements near Taiwan. Its defence ministry referred to them only as “military activities” in late January.


The United States, which like most countries only officially recognises China’s government and not Taiwan’s, is however Taipei’s strongest international backer and has watched tensions mount with growing alarm.


Former U.S. Senator Chris Dodd and former Deputy Secretaries of State Richard Armitage and James Steinberg arrived in Taiwan on Wednesday in an unmarked private jet, in what a White House official called a “personal signal” of the president’s commitment to Taiwan and its democracy.


They are due to meet Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen on Thursday, in a trip that is further straining Sino-U.S. relations.


Taiwan presidential office spokesman Xavier Chang said the trip “again shows the Taiwan-U.S. relationship is rock solid, and is a full expression of cross-party support for Taiwan in the United States”.


Tsai has repeatedly said Taiwan is an independent country called the Republic of China, its formal name.


Ma, the Chinese spokesman, said the meeting of the U.S. officials with Tsai “will only exacerbate the tense situation in the Taiwan Strait”, and that it didn’t matter whether this was being cast as an official or unofficial visit.


“We resolutely oppose the U.S. exaggeration of the so-called ‘Chinese military threat’ argument, and resolutely oppose the U.S. playing the ‘Taiwan card’ and continuing to send wrong signals to Taiwan independence forces,” he added.


“Taiwan independence is a dead end and the ruling Democratic Progressive Party are trying to ‘use arms to seek independence’”, Ma said.


“That is to drink poison in the hopes of slaking one’s thirst, and will only push Taiwan towards disaster.”


As Biden'''s emissaries go to Taiwan, China terms exercises '''combat drills''' | Reuters

Silly chinkies spitting their little dummies again.

It is time to drop a few Chinese planes. If they are stupid enough to follow through on that threat than they need to lose some planes.

Also time to sink some boats on the NCS.

Originally Posted by Shutree

We need to be clear that the CCP has never, ever controlled any part of Taiwan. So you choose your point in history and you'll find various historic claims.

A most eloquent, erudite and edifying post Shutree.

Originally Posted by Looper

A most eloquent, erudite and edifying post Shutree.

You should quote the entire post as it was a master stroke. Well-educated and concise.

Originally Posted by Looper

A most eloquent, erudite and edifying post Shutree.

Yes, another excellent Shutree post as per usual.