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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Republican Party: Has it irrevocably fractured?

    With all these arseholes like Hawley, Cruz and that mad bint with the space lasers kissing the trumpanzee arse, is it any surprise that centre right Republicans are looking at establishing a new party to suck up votes from both the right and the not-so-progressive Democrats/unaffiliated voters?

    Exclusive: Dozens of former Republican officials in talks to form anti-Trump third partyBy Tim Reid

    5 MIN READ

    (Reuters) - Dozens of former Republican officials, who view the party as unwilling to stand up to former President Donald Trump and his attempts to undermine U.S. democracy, are in talks to form a center-right breakaway party, four people involved in the discussions told Reuters.

    The early stage discussions include former elected Republicans, former officials in the Republican administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush and Trump, ex-Republican ambassadors and Republican strategists, the people involved say.

    More than 120 of them held a Zoom call last Friday to discuss the breakaway group, which would run on a platform of “principled conservatism,” including adherence to the Constitution and the rule of law - ideas those involved say have been trashed by Trump.

    The plan would be to run candidates in some races but also to endorse center-right candidates in others, be they Republicans, independents or Democrats, the people say.

    Evan McMullin, who was chief policy director for the House Republican Conference and ran as an independent in the 2016 presidential election, told Reuters that he co-hosted the Zoom call with former officials concerned about Trump’s grip on Republicans and the nativist turn the party has taken.

    Three other people confirmed to Reuters the call and the discussions for a potential splinter party, but asked not to be identified.

    Among the call participants were John Mitnick, general counsel for the Department of Homeland Security under Trump; former Republican congressman Charlie Dent; Elizabeth Neumann, deputy chief of staff in the Homeland Security Department under Trump; and Miles Taylor, another former Trump homeland security official.

    The talks highlight the wide intraparty rift over Trump’s false claims of election fraud and the deadly Jan. 6 storming of the U.S. Capitol. Most Republicans remain fiercely loyal to the former president, but others seek a new direction for the party.

    The House of Representatives impeached Trump on Jan. 13 on a charge of inciting an insurrection by exhorting thousands of supporters to march on the Capitol on the day Congress was gathered to certify Democrat Joe Biden’s election victory.

    Call participants said they were particularly dismayed by the fact that more than half of the Republicans in Congress - eight senators and 139 House representatives - voted to block certification of Biden’s election victory just hours after the Capitol siege.

    Most Republican senators have also indicated they will not support the conviction of Trump in this week’s Senate impeachment trial.

    “Large portions of the Republican Party are radicalizing and threatening American democracy,” McMullin told Reuters. “The party needs to recommit to truth, reason and founding ideals or there clearly needs to be something new.”

    Asked about the discussions for a third party, Jason Miller, a Trump spokesman, said: “These losers left the Republican Party when they voted for Joe Biden.”

    A representative for the Republican National Committee referred to a recent statement from Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel.

    “If we continue to attack each other and focus on attacking on fellow Republicans, if we have disagreements within our party, then we are losing sight of 2022 (elections),” McDaniel said on Fox News last month.

    “The only way we’re going to win is if we come together,” she said.

    The Biden White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    McMullin said just over 40% of those on last week’s Zoom call backed the idea of a breakaway, national third party. Another option under discussion is to form a “faction” that would operate either inside the current Republican Party or outside it.

    Names under consideration for a new party include the Integrity Party and the Center Right Party. If it is decided instead to form a faction, one name under discussion is the Center Right Republicans.

    Members are aware that the U.S. political landscape is littered with the remains of previous failed attempts at national third parties.

    “But there is a far greater hunger for a new political party out there than I have ever experienced in my lifetime,” one participant said.

    Exclusive: Dozens of former Republican officials in talks to form anti-Trump third party | Reuters

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    They should form a new party. There are many people out there who are conservative but not outright nutters. How else will they get away from the Trump/Taylor-Green/qanon clowns?

    I would even feel sorry for them if they weren’t on the forget-about-Trump and move on mode. The orange turd needs to be banned from politics.


    ‘There’s nothing left’: Why thousands of Republicans are leaving the party

    In the days after the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, the phone lines and websites of local election officials across the country were jumping: Tens of thousands of Republicans were calling or logging on to switch their party affiliations.


    In California, more than 33,000 registered Republicans left the party during the three weeks after the Washington riot. In Pennsylvania, more than 12,000 voters left the GOP in the past month, and more than 10,000 Republicans changed their registration in Arizona.


    An analysis of January voting records by The New York Times found that nearly 140,000 Republicans had quit the party in 25 states that had readily available data (19 states do not have registration by party). Voting experts said the data indicated a stronger-than-usual flight from a political party after a presidential election, as well as the potential start of a damaging period for GOP registrations as voters recoil from the Capitol violence and its fallout.


    Among those who recently left the party are Juan Nunez, 56, an Army veteran in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. He said he had long felt that the difference between the United States and many other countries was that campaign-season fighting ended on Election Day, when all sides would peacefully accept the result. The Jan. 6 riot changed that, he said.

    “What happened in D.C. that day, it broke my heart,” said Nunez, a lifelong Republican who is preparing to register as an independent. “It shook me to the core.”

    The biggest spikes in Republicans leaving the party came in the days after Jan. 6, especially in California, where there were 1,020 Republican changes on Jan. 5 — and then 3,243 on Jan. 7. In Arizona, there were 233 Republican changes in the first five days of January, and 3,317 in the next week. Most of the Republicans in these states and others switched to unaffiliated status.


    Voter rolls often change after presidential elections, when registrations sometimes shift toward the winner’s party or people update their old affiliations to correspond to their current party preferences, often at a department of motor vehicles. Other states remove voters who are inactive or who have died, or those who have moved out of state from all parties, and lump those people together with voters who changed their own registrations. Of the 25 states surveyed by The Times, Nevada, Kansas, Utah and Oklahoma had combined such voter list maintenance with registration changes, so their overall totals would not be limited to changes that voters made themselves. Other states may have done so, as well, but did not indicate in their public data.

    Among Democrats, 79,000 have left the party since early January.


    But the tumult at the Capitol, and the historic unpopularity of former President Donald Trump, have made for an intensely fluid period in American politics. Many Republicans denounced the pro-Trump forces that rioted on Jan. 6, and 10 Republican House members voted to impeach Trump. Sizable numbers of Republicans now say they support key elements of President Joe Biden’s stimulus package; typically, the opposing party is wary if not hostile toward the major policy priorities of a new president.


    “Since this is such a highly unusual activity, it probably is indicative of a larger undercurrent that’s happening, where there are other people who are likewise thinking that they no longer feel like they’re part of the Republican Party, but they just haven’t contacted election officials to tell them that they might change their party registration,” said Michael P. McDonald, a professor of political science at the University of Florida. “So this is probably a tip of an iceberg.”


    But, he cautioned, it could also be the vocal “never Trump” reality simply coming into focus as Republicans finally took the step of changing their registration, even though they hadn’t supported the president and his party since 2016.


    Kevin Madden, a former Republican operative who worked on Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign, fits this trend line, though he was ahead of the recent exodus. He said he changed his registration to independent a year ago, after watching what he called the harassment of career foreign service officials at Trump’s first impeachment trial.


    “It’s not a birthright and it’s not a religion,” Madden said of party affiliation. “Political parties should be more like your local condo association. If the condo association starts to act in a way that’s inconsistent with your beliefs, you move.”


    As for the overall trend of Republicans abandoning their party, he said that it was too soon to say if it spelled trouble in the long term, but that the numbers couldn’t be overlooked. “In all the time I worked in politics,” he said, “the thing that always worried me was not the position but the trend line.”


    Some GOP officials noted the significant gains in registration that Republicans have seen recently, including before the 2020 election, and noted that the party had rebounded quickly in the past.
    “You never want to lose registrations at any point, and clearly the January scene at the Capitol exacerbated already considerable issues Republicans are having with the center of the electorate,” said Josh Holmes, a top political adviser to Sen. Mitch McConnell, the minority leader. “Today’s receding support really pales in comparison to the challenges of a decade ago, however, when Republicans went from absolute irrelevance to a House majority within 18 months.”


    He added, “If Republicans can reunite behind basic conservative principles and stand up to the liberal overreach of the Biden administration, things will change a lot quicker than people think.”


    In North Carolina, the shift was immediately noticeable. The state experienced a notable surge in Republicans changing their party affiliation: 3,007 in the first week after the riot, 2,850 the next week and 2,120 the week after that. A consistent 650 or so Democrats changed their party affiliation each week.


    But state GOP officials downplayed any significance in the changes, and expressed confidence that North Carolina, a battleground state that has leaned Republican recently, will remain in their column.


    “Relatively small swings in the voter registration over a short period of time in North Carolina’s pool of over 7 million registered voters are not particularly concerning,” Tim Wigginton, the communications director for the state party, said in a statement, predicting that North Carolina would continue to vote Republican at the statewide level.


    In Arizona, 10,174 Republicans have changed their party registration since the attack as the state party has shifted ever further to the right, as reflected by its decision to censure three Republicans — Gov. Doug Ducey, former Sen. Jeff Flake and Cindy McCain — for various acts deemed disloyal to Trump. The party continues to raise questions about the 2020 election, and this week Republicans in the state Legislature backed arresting elections officials from Maricopa County for refusing to comply with wide-ranging subpoenas for election equipment and materials.


    It is those actions, some Republican strategists in Arizona argue, that prompted the drop in GOP voter registrations in the state.


    “The exodus that’s happening right now, based on my instincts and all the people who are calling me out here, is that they’re leaving as a result of the acts of sedition that took place and the continued questioning of the Arizona vote,” said Chuck Coughlin, a Republican strategist in Arizona.


    For Heidi Ushinski, 41, the decision to leave the Arizona Republican Party was easy. After the election, she said, she registered as a Democrat because “the Arizona GOP has just lost its mind” and wouldn’t “let go of this fraudulent election stuff.”


    “The GOP used to stand for what we felt were morals, just character, and integrity,” she added. “I think that the outspoken GOP coming out of Arizona has lost that.”


    This is the third time Ushinski has switched her party registration. She usually reregisters to be able to vote against candidates. This time around, she did it because she did not feel that there was a place for people like her in the “new” Republican Party.


    “I look up to the Jeffry Flakes and the Cindy McCains,” she said. “To see the GOP go after them, specifically, when they speak in ways that I resonate with just shows me that there’s nothing left in the GOP for me to stand for. And it’s really sad.”


    Nunez, the Army veteran in Pennsylvania, said his disgust with the Capitol riot was compounded when Republicans in Congress continued to push back on sending stimulus checks and staunchly opposed raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour.


    “They were so quick to bail out corporations, giving big companies money, but continue to fight over giving money to people in need,” said Nunez, who plans to change parties this week. “Also, I’m a business owner and I cannot imagine living on $7 an hour. We have to be fair.”


    Though the volume of voters leaving the GOP varied from state to state, nearly every state surveyed showed a noticeable increase. In Colorado, roughly 4,700 Republican voters changed their registration status in the nine days after the riot. In New Hampshire, about 10,000 left the party’s voter rolls in the past month, and in Louisiana around 5,500 did as well.


    Even in states with no voter registration by party, some Republicans have been vocal about leaving.


    In Michigan, Mayor Michael Taylor of Sterling Heights, the fourth-largest city in the state, already had one foot out the Republican Party door before the 2020 elections. Even as a lifelong Republican, he couldn’t bring himself to vote for Trump for president after backing him in 2016. He instead cast a ballot for Biden.


    After the election, the relentless promotion of conspiracy theories by GOP leaders, and the attack at the Capitol, pushed him all the way out of the party.


    “There was enough before the election to swear off the GOP, but the incredible events since have made it clear to me that I don’t fit into this party,” Taylor said. “It wasn’t just complaining about election fraud anymore. They have taken control of the Capitol at the behest of the president of the United States. And if there was a clear break with the party in my mind, that was it.”


    Taylor plans to run for reelection this year, and even though it’s a nonpartisan race, community members are well aware of the shift in his thinking since the last citywide election in 2017.


    He already has two challengers, including a staunch Trump supporter, who has begun criticizing Taylor for his lack of support for the former president.
    ‘There’s nothing left’: Why thousands of Republicans are leaving the party - Chicago Tribune

  3. #3
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    How many years have I been saying exactly this? Enough to be thoroughly boring.

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    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Republican Party: Has it irrevocably fractured?
    They were very close to split into two ten years ago during the heydays of the tea-parties but they somehow managed to keep the party together.
    The problems/difference's were never solved, just papered over, and are now popping up again being even more difficult to solve.
    A split has been due for so long time and I both think and hope that it will happen this time.

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    This time is different for sure but I'm still mindful that after every election cycle there are murmurs of splits within and the demise of [Insert Losing Party Here].

    Time will tell of course but it's bizarre how they appear to have no core values and embrace the crazy now.

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    I am going to make a bold prediction. This is the beginning of the end for the GOP they will go the way of the Whig party.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    I am going to make a bold prediction. This is the beginning of the end for the GOP they will go the way of the Whig party.
    I agree. The party is finished. These dim-witted fascists chose someone who was completely unfit for the job - who later destroyed the party - but won't admit it. The fascist rabble and scum who still cling to the lies will only bring more disrepute to the party. I won't be surprised if Wall Street already has another right wing party in the making, one that will completely replace the GOP, which will be plagued by its history forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    I agree
    ...I disagree. Republican politicians, fearful of losing their jobs and attendant perks, will continue to pander to their constituents...in ways that may even sound reasonably thought out. The party itself may move to the nativist right, lose centrist votes, etc, but I predict it will remain essentially intact as it is, after all, a representation of what the US has always been: easily led voters ("The President invited me here!") who are not NYT readers, but white Indiana Christians, white Arkansas farmers, or giant agri-business owners (also white)...all they have is the Republican party in whatever form they shape it into...
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

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    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    So in the impeachment trial 15 GOP senators didn't even bother attending and Graham, Cruz and Mike Lee attended a meeting with Trump's impeachment lawyers to discuss strategy.

    These are all people that swore an oath to be impartial jurors.

    Zero fucks given about the actual facts and impartiality at this point.

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    3 reasons a 'center right' party will never work
    by Chris Cillizza (CNN)



    The news was intriguing: A group of 120 Republicans held a meeting in the last week to talk about the possibility of forming a "center right" party or a new faction within the GOP to signal a clear break from former President Donald Trump.

    Interesting, right? After all, there's no question that there's a decent-sized chunk of people who have voted for and supported Republicans in the past but were alienated by Trump's behavior in office.

    As is often the case with talk of possible new political parties, however, there's less than meets the eye. Here's why:

    1. The Republican Party already fought this fight in 2016. The anti-Trump crowd, which ultimately became every candidate in the GOP primary field other than Trump, lost. And lost badly. Just ask Marco Rubio. And Jeb Bush. And Lindsey Graham. And Rand Paul. And Ted Cruz. And Chris Christie. And Ben Carson.

    2. There's no leader for this movement. Voters rally around candidates, not political parties. Barack Obama appealed to people, first and foremost, because he was Barack Obama. Not because he was a Democrat. Same for Trump, who, prior to running in 2016, was at best loosely affiliated with the Republican Party. Who is the face of this proposed new party or new faction? Ben Sasse? John Kasich? Liz Cheney? Larry Hogan? Adam Kinzinger? Mitt Romney? Lisa Murkowski? You get the idea. Way too many cooks.

    3. GOP elected officials have zero interest in it: For people who like to argue that Trump's actions during and after the January 6 riot have fundamentally changed how he stands in the party, I like to remind them that, in the immediate aftermath of that riot, 138 Republicans voted to object to the Electoral College results in Pennsylvania. That's a clear majority of House Republicans on the record in support of an objection based on zero facts and 100% loyalty to Trump. So where again is this clamor to get beyond Trump?

    The Point: The idea of a non-Trump Republican Party undoubtedly appeals to plenty of GOP establishment types. The problem? There just aren't enough of them in the party for such a move to succeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...I disagree.
    I agree with TC's disagreement of the agreement.

    What's worse for a Republican than Trump?

    A democrat-held trio of power, democrat pres, democrat-majority in both houses etc etc etc




    Republican pollies will still run as such because they have close to half the population on their side . . . they still have the majority in the senate (there are two Inds) and close parity in Congress.

    The old saying of better dead than red translates nicely into this scenario

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    Having a third party in USA is a horrible nightmare to the "democracy" than to have another Trump...

    With the two parties it has functioned so well over 200 years, so why to change it?

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    It has certainly functioned far, far better than Russia, that's true.

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    Member elche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...I disagree. Republican politicians, fearful of losing their jobs and attendant perks, will continue to pander to their constituents...in ways that may even sound reasonably thought out. The party itself may move to the nativist right, lose centrist votes, etc, but I predict it will remain essentially intact as it is, after all, a representation of what the US has always been: easily led voters ("The President invited me here!") who are not NYT readers, but white Indiana Christians, white Arkansas farmers, or giant agri-business owners (also white)...all they have is the Republican party in whatever form they shape it into...
    But many Republicans realize that they don't have enough votes (stooges) to win in either houses of the Congress or the WH with Trump. The villain will always poll in the mid 40's but never have enough votes to win again. Nov. 6 and the mid-term elections proved that. He's finished.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    2. There's no leader for this movement.
    A leader will emerge, like every other leader emerged after he or she wins the party nomination, just like Biden, Obama, Dubya, Bill, etc. There is nothing exceptional about Trump. In fact, Trump polls lowest of all past presidents, despite having the #1 watched news network backing him for 4 years. He's finished.

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    Member elche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Republican pollies will still run as such because they have close to half the population on their side . . . they still have the majority in the senate (there are two Inds) and close parity in Congress.
    The Democrats now have the majority in the Senate. That's a fact. Independent Senators Angus King and Bernie Sanders caucus with the Demcratic party. And they still retain the majority in the House. The results for the WH wasn't even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    He's finished
    He certainly is and so is the GOP if they split and become two separate bits.

    The "Moderates" and "Trumplicans". Here's why:

    Although the Trumplicans are the worse off, neither faction has the funding to win a Pesidential or Senate race.

    As with many things, politics is driven by contributions. No money no honey applies.

    Only winners will be Dems who will end with a firm majority in both Congressional houses not to mention several years of succsessive Dem White House occupants.

    Not a good thing for the country either imho.
    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect,"

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    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    But many Republicans realize that they don't have enough votes (stooges) to win in either houses of the Congress or the WH with Trump
    ...those are the ones who will scream loudest about voting fraud, missing ballots, etc...and be totally unpersuaded by unfavorable court decisions...a Cruz or a Hawley will persevere in roping in the tRump vote and then...somehow...try to convince the center that Jewish space lasers are a real threat...

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    Quote Originally Posted by elche View Post
    The Democrats now have the majority in the Senate. That's a fact. Independent Senators Angus King and Bernie Sanders caucus with the Demcratic party
    . . . until they don't get what they want and block bills because they . . . can.

    For the life of me I don't understand how the Senate isn't 60-40 Dem . . .



    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...those are the ones who will scream loudest about voting fraud, missing ballots, etc...and be totally unpersuaded by unfavorable court decisions...a Cruz or a Hawley will persevere in roping in the tRump vote and then...somehow...try to convince the center that Jewish space lasers are a real threat...
    And that's pretty much it. The centre will still vote Rep, as we saw with 78(?) million people voting for a maniac . . . and wil gerrymandering and the like they will still have lots of power

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    Why the trustworthy delegates of people decide as per they are told by their Party? Not as per their personal decision?

    And they obey unanimously ... It reminds me something...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Why the trustworthy delegates of people decide as per they are told by their Party? Not as per their personal decision?

    And they obey unanimously ... It reminds me something...
    You clueless bot stfu. It is almost like you respond via some Kremlin language translator. Clearly the code needs work because nothing you say makes any sense.

  21. #21
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Just a quick aside: I daresay the god botherers were all excited when baldy orange loser nominated Amy Coney Barrett (and Kavanaugh for that matter) to the court. How's that working out?

    Critics of Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett predicted she would be a religious zealot, but her first opinion on a church ruling took a more middle-ground approach.

    The Supreme Court delivered a 6-3 ruling late Friday that California cannot enforce its bans on religious services during the pandemic. In an unsigned opinion, the court declined to lift bans on singing and chanting inside houses of worship — a move pushed by both Justices Barrett and Brett Kavanaugh.
    “The applicants bore the burden of establishing their entitlement to relief from the singing ban,” Barrett wrote in her first opinion, with Kavanaugh in agreement. “In my view, they did not carry that burden – at least not on this record.”
    https://dailycaller.com/2021/02/08/a...ouses-worship/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    With the two parties it has functioned so well over 200 years, so why to change it?
    You have no idea what you are talking about.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    You have no idea what you are talking about.
    Does he ever?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    nothing you say makes any sense.
    Sorry for that. In case you are really very keen on meaning of my remarks (I know, for you unpleasant), ask kindly somebody in the streets to give you hand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Does he ever?

    I usually just skip over his jumbled word salads. TD is loaded with idiots like this clown ATM.

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