Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 46 of 46
  1. #26
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,769
    May have changed since the 70-80s, but the Swiss are/were more civilised. After the paperwork is done, the entire episode has to be videod, in which the doctor places a glass containing a lethal dose of barbiturate or whatever within reach of the patient (used to be with a prior dose of antiemetic), clearly explains what it is and what will happen to the patient if they drink it, and it's down to the patient to effectively commit suicide. Probably more complicated if the patient is physically or mentally incapacitated.

    Then there follows a postmortem hearing/tribunal to establish that the clinic carried out every aspect of the process from first contact to disposal of remains in accordance with the rulez.

  2. #27
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Chiang Mai
    Posts
    34,553
    The joke in this house is the day Mom doesn’t remember who I am is the day I knock her on the head and put her out of her misery. She is serious when she says this is the way it should be. The law doesn’t allow me to do such a thing (not that I would!) and I doubt it allows for her to be euthanized, either.

    She does have an advance directive which states no life saving treatments should be performed.

  3. #28
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,769
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    The State has absolutely no Jurisdiction over an individuals decision to end their own life. Religion neither. Get out of my butthole.
    Whose Life Is It Anyway? Richard Dreyfuss, great movie for the early 80s, when people were learning to challenge rather than quietly accept whatever the gods say.

  4. #29
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    72,344
    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    Even more that she cannot consent to it. It is not that difficult a concept.
    The point is that she gave consent when she was verifiably able to do so.

    That is not too difficult a concept either.

  5. #30
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    5,579
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    and the judge(s) acted correctly.
    The judge had nothing to do with it. It was the Dr. and one relative.

  6. #31
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    5,579
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    The point is that she gave consent when she was verifiably able to do so.
    The point is, she also clearly removed that consent, 3 times.

  7. #32
    Thailand Expat
    Dragonfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Last Online
    09-12-2020 @ 06:57 PM
    Posts
    14,612
    Quote Originally Posted by nidhogg View Post
    Even more that she cannot consent to it. It is not that difficult a concept.
    indeed, amazing that nobody here is catching on that little detail

    very very disturbing,

  8. #33
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    72,344
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    The point is, she also clearly removed that consent, 3 times.
    But she didn't. We are going round in circles here.

    "such was the severity of her dementia that she no longer understood what the word "euthanasia" even meant."

  9. #34
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    13,745
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    The State has absolutely no Jurisdiction over an individuals decision to end their own life.
    ...agree: folks should be free to decide how they want to go and make the necessary arrangements. No one else's opinion, hand-wringing or distaste should carry any weight at all...

  10. #35
    Pedantic bastard
    nidhogg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    16,154
    And you sheeple trust doctors. I have worked with the fuckers, and view them as I would a venemous snake - with real fucking caution, and no inherent trust.

  11. #36
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Chiang Mai
    Posts
    34,553
    ^ I view doctors as people who keep hopelessly sick people alive just because they can, not because they should. They are after the money. When there is no quality of life, it’s time to go.

  12. #37
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    5,579
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    But she didn't. We are going round in circles here.
    those are you words, you are quoting yourself no where in the OP is there such a phrase. Rather disingenuous to be quoting yourself and pretending it’s the OP

  13. #38
    Thailand Expat
    Troy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    Today @ 04:59 PM
    Location
    In the EU
    Posts
    9,277
    She gave away power of attorney to enable the decision to be made for her when she was unable. Ignore the emotive content of the article and it becomes clearer. It is no longer the patient that needs to give consent and it takes a lot of courage for her relative to allow what she wanted.

  14. #39
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    5,579
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    it takes a lot of courage


    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Ignore the emotive content.

    \_(ツ)_/

  15. #40
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    13,745
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    She gave away power of attorney to enable the decision to be made for her when she was unable. Ignore the emotive content of the article and it becomes clearer. It is no longer the patient that needs to give consent and it takes a lot of courage for her relative to allow what she wanted.
    ...agree...

  16. #41
    Your local I.Q. Monitor
    Hugh Cow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Last Online
    Today @ 06:29 AM
    Location
    Qld/Bangkok
    Posts
    2,932
    If she has given power of attorney to make the decision why the angst.I have told my children if i get to the stage where I can no longer recognise any of my family, and can no longer do for myself let me exit at the first available opportunity.

  17. #42
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    13,745
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    why the angst
    ...fear, I suspect...

  18. #43
    Thailand Expat Latindancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Online
    Today @ 02:09 PM
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    13,346
    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    ^ I view doctors as people who keep hopelessly sick people alive just because they can, not because they should. They are after the money.

    Sometimes perhaps. But I think also they feel obliged to do so because they feel the need to fulfill their role and job description; also because they don't want to be viewed as negligent.

  19. #44
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    72,344
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    those are you words, you are quoting yourself no where in the OP is there such a phrase. Rather disingenuous to be quoting yourself and pretending it’s the OP
    Rather stupid of you to not notice that when I quoted that it was from the link in the same post.



    When do you stop asking if someone wants to live?

    By Anna Holligan, BBC Hague correspondent


    Should someone who makes a choice when they are of sound mind be held to that choice when they are not? Yes, was the judge's answer to the key question at the heart of this emotive test case.


    There was a small round of applause as the verdict was read out in front of a crowded courtroom. Euthanasia is supposed to empower the patient, offering them the chance to decide when they want to die. Even in a country where it's been legal for almost two decades, the practice remains controversial.


    In this case, the judges ruled that by the time the patient died it would have been impossible to establish what she wanted, such was the severity of her dementia that she no longer understood what the word "euthanasia" even meant.


    This trial forced doctors and lawyers to confront a practical and moral dilemma; at what point do you stop checking if someone wants to live or die, and should they still have the power to decide if they're not fully in control of their mental capacities?


  20. #45
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    11,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    If she has given power of attorney to make the decision why the angst.I have told my children if i get to the stage where I can no longer recognise any of my family, and can no longer do for myself let me exit at the first available opportunity.
    I went through something like this with a mate that had colon cancer, and couldn't trust his own family to do what he thought was the right thing.

    Difficult choice, and others might claim to know what's right but for me it's not clear. You gave somebody else not just the right but an obligation to make decisions in your behalf, under certain circumstances that you have never experienced, could only imagine, and unable to know or guess how you might feel if those perceived conditions turned into real life with someone about to see you off, as per your own instructions. Also consider the value of life varies from person to person, some are ready to end it when the budgie dies or they fail an exam, while others will cling on in terminal and painful desperation for a few extra breaths.

    So that's what you gave, not permission but instructions, to someone you trust to act in line with your wishes if certain conditions are met, with nothing else in the equation beyond your expressed desires while sane and lucid, and regardless how they feel about it.

    Next to discuss, or for TD argue over, is whether those instructions apply if you change your mind after those conditions are met, which could well be when you've lost your mind and don't know what's going on or who you are. Tricky, not so much for you but for those you left in charge of the decision.

  21. #46
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Posts
    72,344
    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    I went through something like this with a mate that had colon cancer, and couldn't trust his own family to do what he thought was the right thing.

    Difficult choice, and others might claim to know what's right but for me it's not clear. You gave somebody else not just the right but an obligation to make decisions in your behalf, under certain circumstances that you have never experienced, could only imagine, and unable to know or guess how you might feel if those perceived conditions turned into real life with someone about to see you off, as per your own instructions. Also consider the value of life varies from person to person, some are ready to end it when the budgie dies or they fail an exam, while others will cling on in terminal and painful desperation for a few extra breaths.

    So that's what you gave, not permission but instructions, to someone you trust to act in line with your wishes if certain conditions are met, with nothing else in the equation beyond your expressed desires while sane and lucid, and regardless how they feel about it.

    Next to discuss, or for TD argue over, is whether those instructions apply if you change your mind after those conditions are met, which could well be when you've lost your mind and don't know what's going on or who you are. Tricky, not so much for you but for those you left in charge of the decision.
    A valid comment. I suspect if this case had gone before the judge prior to the act, it would have resulted in the same outcome. Perhaps that is what is required.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •