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  1. #151
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    'He just rambled': Republicans unimpressed by Trump's impeachment lawyers

    Senators and reportedly Trump himself voice displeasure with performances from Bruce Castor and David Schoen


    The performance of Donald Trump’s legal team on the first day of his second impeachment trial has drawn sharp criticism from Republican senators and other onlookers, many of whom appeared unimpressed by the at times rambling and incoherent opening statements.


    Two members of the former president’s legal team, Bruce Castor and David Schoen, sought on Tuesday to persuade the Senate to dismiss the trial on constitutional grounds. Castor’s performance in particular drew criticism as waffling and lacking in focus.


    Several Republican senators said they didn’t understand the lawyers’ arguments. The Louisiana senator Bill Cassidy, who voted with Democrats to move forward with the trial, said Trump’s team did a “terrible job” and was “disorganized”, “random” and “did everything they could but to talk about the question at hand”.


    Cassidy was not the only Republican who was displeased with Trump’s defense team.

    Susan Collins, a Republican senator of Maine, said she was “perplexed” by Castor, who is Trump’s lead lawyer, saying he “did not seem to make any arguments at all, which was an unusual approach to take”.


    “The president’s lawyer just rambled on and on,” said Senator John Cornyn, a Republican of Texas. “I’ve seen a lot of lawyers and a lot of arguments, and that was not one of the finest I’ve seen.”


    The Texas senator Ted Cruz, one of Trump’s staunchest allies, said he didn’t think the lawyers did “the most effective job”, while praising the Maryland representative Jamie Raskin, who is acting as the Democrats’ lead prosecutor, as “impressive”.


    Cornyn and Cruz both still voted to dismiss the trial, along with 42 other Republican senators. Six Republicans, including Cassidy and Collins, voted with Democrats to advance the trial.


    Trump himself was also reportedly unhappy with his lawyers’ showing. Politico reported that sources close to the former president say he grew “increasingly frustrated” as he watched the day unfold. Other outlets, including CBS and CNN, also reported the president was disappointed, according to sources.






    The trial’s opening day saw Raskin deliver an emotional speech that recounted his personal experience of the Capitol attack, describing how his daughter and son-in-law were in an office in the Capitol and hid under a desk, where they sent what they thought were their final texts. Through tears, Raskin said: “This cannot be the future of America.”


    Castor opened his meandering presentation by praising senators as “patriots” and mentioning that he still gets lost in the Capitol. The speech included such cryptic lines as “Nebraska, you’re going to hear, is quite a judicial thinking place”. He spoke for 20 minutes before addressing the 6 January insurrection and failed to directly address the president’s actions that day or argue against the constitutionality of the impeachment trial.


    Castor concluded his opening comments by bizarrely daring the justice department to arrest Trump if the allegations at the heart of the impeachment trial were true.


    “A high crime is a felony, and a misdemeanor is a misdemeanor,” Castor said. “After he’s out of office, you go and arrest him ... The Department of Justice does know what to do with such people. And so far, I haven’t seen any activity in that direction.”


    The New York Times’ Maggie Haberman said a Trump adviser had defended the performance as a “deliberative strategy” meant to distract from Raskin’s emotional presentation – though critics pointed out that a master strategist wouldn’t need to put out a background statement explaining their strategy.


    It was a performance that left many observers befuddled, with some reporters comparing the lawyer to a college student who did not do the reading before class, joking that Castor would be fired by tweet if Trump still had access to his Twitter account.








    Alan Dershowitz, who served as a member of Donald Trump’s defense team during his first impeachment trial, seemed less than impressed with Castor’s rambling presentation.


    “There is no argument. I have no idea what he is doing,” Dershowitz told the conservative outlet Newsmax. “I have no idea why he’s saying what he’s saying.”

    'He just rambled': Republicans unimpressed by Trump's impeachment lawyers | Trump impeachment (2021) | The Guardian
    Last edited by Cujo; 10-02-2021 at 02:22 PM.
    “If we stop testing right now we’d have very few cases, if any.” Donald J Trump.

  2. #152
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    T.V. at it's very best. A real horse and one trick pony show.

    I'll be more than glad to see the end of all this shit.

    Maybe Monday next?

    Time to get the fuck on with what has to be got the fuck on with.

  3. #153
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    ^At the end of the day, by all these witch hunts, they will make from such an ugly character a big man in US history...

  4. #154
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    ^And that only because he - as one of the very few of the big guys - is not willing to follow the ones who own America (as per George Carlin)...

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    ^And that only because he - as one of the very few of the big guys - is not willing to follow the ones who own America (as per George Carlin)...
    He is one of those, you utter fuckwit

  6. #156
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    This made me laugh out loud. Michael van der Veen, one of Trump’s impeachment lawyers called him a “fucking crook” just last year.


    One of Trump's impeachment lawyers reportedly sued the former president last year over his voter fraud claims

    One of the lawyers representing former President Donald Trump in his impeachment trial filed a lawsuit against the former president over his voter fraud claims, The Washington Post reported Tuesday.


    Philadelphia lawyer Michael van der Veen sued Trump last year, saying his claims about mail-in voter fraud were made with "no evidence in support" of them, according to The Post report.


    According to The Philadelphia Inquirer, van der Veen represented a client who filed a lawsuit against Trump ahead of the 2020 election, accusing him and his administration of suppressing mail-in voting by reorganization efforts in the US Postal Service.


    His firm also sent marketing emails accusing the Pennsylvania Republicans of running a campaign to "unfairly and illegally intimidate voters," according to The Inquirer.


    "Donald Trump doesn't want you to be able to vote," one August 20 email from van der Veen's firm read, which was obtained by The Inquirer. "It's time to stand up for what's right."

    Justin Hiemstra, a former client of van der Veen, told The Inquirer that van der Veen once described Trump as a "f---ing crook" two years ago. The lawyer represented Hiemstra against charges that Hiemstra tried to steal Trump's tax returns by hacking into a government database, according to The Inquirer.


    "I'm not sure if [those comments] were made to make me feel more comfortable, or if they were his actual opinions," Hiemstra told The Inquirer.


    He added: "He definitely came off as fairly anti-Trump in the context that I knew him."


    Representatives from the office of van der Veen did not immediately return Business Insider's request for comment.


    This week, the Philadelphia lawyer is a part of Trump's defense team, alongside attorneys Bruce Castor Jr. and David Schoen. This is Trump's second impeachment trial after the House voted along party lines to accuse the former president of inciting the deadly insurrection on January 6.

    One of Trump's impeachment lawyers reportedly sued the former president last year over his voter fraud claims

  7. #157
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    I was really touched when seeing the hon. Jamie Raskin, D-Md. when he burst into tears, unable to speak further, when telling us how he apologized to his daughter.

    "I told her how sorry I was and I promised her that it would not be like this again, the next time she came back to the Capitol with me. And you know what she said? She said Dad, I don't want to come back to the Capitol."

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    This made me laugh out loud. Michael van der Veen, one of Trump’s impeachment lawyers called him a “fucking crook” just last year.


    One of Trump's impeachment lawyers reportedly sued the former president last year over his voter fraud claims

    One of the lawyers representing former President Donald Trump in his impeachment trial filed a lawsuit against the former president over his voter fraud claims, The Washington Post reported Tuesday.


    Philadelphia lawyer Michael van der Veen sued Trump last year, saying his claims about mail-in voter fraud were made with "no evidence in support" of them, according to The Post report.


    According to The Philadelphia Inquirer, van der Veen represented a client who filed a lawsuit against Trump ahead of the 2020 election, accusing him and his administration of suppressing mail-in voting by reorganization efforts in the US Postal Service.


    His firm also sent marketing emails accusing the Pennsylvania Republicans of running a campaign to "unfairly and illegally intimidate voters," according to The Inquirer.


    "Donald Trump doesn't want you to be able to vote," one August 20 email from van der Veen's firm read, which was obtained by The Inquirer. "It's time to stand up for what's right."

    Justin Hiemstra, a former client of van der Veen, told The Inquirer that van der Veen once described Trump as a "f---ing crook" two years ago. The lawyer represented Hiemstra against charges that Hiemstra tried to steal Trump's tax returns by hacking into a government database, according to The Inquirer.


    "I'm not sure if [those comments] were made to make me feel more comfortable, or if they were his actual opinions," Hiemstra told The Inquirer.


    He added: "He definitely came off as fairly anti-Trump in the context that I knew him."


    Representatives from the office of van der Veen did not immediately return Business Insider's request for comment.


    This week, the Philadelphia lawyer is a part of Trump's defense team, alongside attorneys Bruce Castor Jr. and David Schoen. This is Trump's second impeachment trial after the House voted along party lines to accuse the former president of inciting the deadly insurrection on January 6.

    One of Trump's impeachment lawyers reportedly sued the former president last year over his voter fraud claims
    Hilarious. I wonder if Trump knows.
    What's even more hilarious is what he says here at minute 5.50



    No wonder Trump's reportedly been seen shouting at the T.V.
    Last edited by Cujo; 10-02-2021 at 11:05 PM.

  9. #159
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    And now...
    Investigation into his call to Raffensperger

  10. #160
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    Damned by his own words: Democrats follow Trump's wide-open multimedia trail.

    As US president, Donald Trump seemed be talking and tweeting 24 hours a day. That has thrown his near total absence from public life over the past three weeks into sharp relief.

    The Silence of the Tweets.


    It also means that when clips of Trump’s rally speeches filled the Senate chamber on day two of his impeachment trial on Wednesday, his voice was jarring and jangling in the ear, like a blowhard from a cruder, coarser time.


    His speeches, tweets and phone calls were replayed incessantly as the House impeachment managers put their case against him. Seldom has an accused been so damned by their own words. In his fiery claims of a stolen election, his exhortations to “fight like hell” and his failure to denounce hate groups such as the Proud Boys, Trump proved the star witness in his own prosecution.


    The spectacular irony was that a man who thrived on grabbing attention on TV and social media had left a trail of digital clues that ought to lead all the way to conviction. It was the 21st-century equivalent of a Victorian diary in which the master criminal brags about how he did it.


    “Trump’s worst problem?” tweeted David Axelrod, former chief campaign strategist for Barack Obama. “Videotape.”


    It helped Jamie Raskin and his fellow House impeachment managers build a case that this incitement did not begin on 6 January, the day of the insurrection at the US Capitol, but over months of spinning election lies and cheering on political violence.




    Wearing grey suit, white shirt, deep blue tie, and wielding a blue pen in his right hand, Raskin told the Senate: “He revelled in it and he did nothing to help us as commander-in-chief. Instead he served as the inciter-in-chief, sending tweets that only further incited the rampaging mob. He made statements lauding and sympathising with the insurrectionists.”




    Congressman Joe Neguse displayed clips of Trump addressing rallies in October where he said he could only lose the election if it was stolen. “Remember he had that no-lose scenario,” Neguse said. “He told his base that the election was stolen.” Such beliefs fueled the so-called “stop the steal” campaign.


    Another impeachment manager, Eric Swalwell, pored over Trump’s tweets, a goldmine for the prosecution. Among the many examples: the then president retweeted Kylie Jane Kremer, founder of a “Stop the Steal” Facebook group, who promised that “the cavalry” was coming.


    Swalwell told the senators, who sit at 100 wooden desks on a tiered semicircular platform, that there is “overwhelming” evidence: “President Trump’s conduct leading up to January 6 was deliberate, planned and premeditated. This was not one speech, not one tweet. It was dozens in rapid succession with the specific details. He was acting as part of the host committee.”


    Swalwell added: “This was never about one speech. He built this mob over many months with repeated messaging until they believed they had been robbed of their vote and they would do anything to stop the certification. He made them believe that their victory was stolen and incited them so he could use them to steal the election for himself.”


    The trial heard Trump pressuring Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, to overturn his election defeat in the state. Congresswoman Madeleine Dean said: “We must not become numb to this. Trump did this across state after state so often, so loudly, so publicly. All because Trump wanted to remain in power.”


    Her colleague Stacey Plaskett of the Virgin Islands noted an incident last October when dozens of trucks covered in Trump campaign regalia “confronted and surrounded” a Biden-Harris campaign bus traveling from San Antonio to Austin in Texas.


    “What that video that you just saw does not show is that the bus they tried to run off of the road was filled with young campaign staff, volunteers, supporters, surrogates, people,” she said.


    And as the saying goes, there’s always a tweet. Plaskett highlighted that a day later, Trump tweeted a video of the episode with the caption, “I LOVE TEXAS.”


    Plaskett also played a clip of Trump at a presidential debate, telling the Proud Boys to “stand back and stand by” when asked to condemn white supremacists. They heard him “loud and clear”, she said, and even used the slogan on their merchandise. Several members of the Proud Boys have been charged in connection with the riots.


    Later, Plaskett presented chilling audio and video evidence, some of it never made public before, that she said displayed the consequences of Trump’s incendiary words. Capitol police and law enforcement could be heard pleading for backup as the mob closed in. An officer could be seen running past Senator Mitt Romney and warning him to turn around, then Romney was seen breaking into a run to safety.


    Trump’s political career was always like a child playing with matches. On 6 January, he started a fire. And as Wednesday’s hearing demonstrated, if he ever builds a presidential library and museum, there will be no shortage of multimedia material.




    Damned by his own words: Democrats follow Trump's wide-open multimedia trail | Trump impeachment (2021) | The Guardian

  11. #161
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    Check this out at 5.30


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  13. #163
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    The Senate could be holding their vote for impeachment in about an hour.

    Live link.

  14. #164
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    ^ Boy, can the defense attorney, in summing up can waffle on.

    Talking about raising talking points naught to do with Trump.

    Talking about people not on trial.

    Talking about ... really nothing at all.

    Bit like Trump himself ... a windbag, full of puffery and hot air.

  15. #165
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    Reading the live comments from those commenting about the trial ...

    Carl Mcalevey
    ​I've been up all night. just loving every second of this exposure of the democrats absolute lies they've been trying to peddle for 4 years, now without CNN they're getting owned
    Carl Mcalevey
    ​I've watched too many presidential foot jobs from these buggers to sleep. I just hope a bottleo opens soon because its time to celebrate another loss to the attempts of the communists to take over

  16. #166
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    Legal Charges Against Trump-12933844-16x9-xlarge-jpg
    Credit

    Senate Republicans handed former President Trump his second impeachment acquittal on Saturday, clearing him of charges that he incited the mob that attacked the Capitol on Jan. 6.

    By a vote of 57 to 43, the Senate acquitted former President Trump.

    Republicans voting guilty: Burr, Cassidy, Collins, Murkowski, Romney, Sasse, Toomey
    Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago ...


  17. #167
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    It was always going to be that, even with his buffoonery of a legal team

  18. #168
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    I pretty much watched the whole wrap up today, certainly educational and highly entertaining. A few thoughts.

    I thought Mcconnell delivered the most blisteringly powerful critique of what happened on that fateful day. His comments were so passionate as to cause me to have a change of mind as to who was responsible for the events of the day, ex-president Donald Trump. Excellent effort from the minority leader. I understand as well why he voted to acquit in spite of the speech. I would prefer not to delve into that as I'm still digesting the proceedings. I know little of how the American federation functions, our system to the north is significantly different. I'll leave that political discussion to the forum constitutional wonks.

    I have several thoughts arising from watching today. I hope to share these at a latter date.
    A true diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you will be asking for directions.

  19. #169
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    Well, there're still the 60+ other charges . . . Trump is going to have fun and still end up in jail.

    This was always going to be a side-show with no possible way of a 'guilty' verdict.

  20. #170
    Thailand Expat russellsimpson's Avatar
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    It was close though. Had McConnell voted otherwise it would have been all over now.

  21. #171
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    Okay, so a few things arising from todays proceedings I would enjoy some feedback on........

    Is it true that the Washington mayor denied a request to bring additional federal troops into the capital because he didn't wish the troops in the city, presumably fearing a military takeover? Dumb question I know but only a talking point.

    I think McConnell threw under the bus and I think Trump's political career is done even he tries for a comeback. That's covered well on another thread.

    I think the defense made some good arguments with the Portland comparison. I found those months long siege really quite unacceptable and the reserve should have been in there like a dirty sheet.

    On the charge of insurrection?
    Doesn't an insurrection require more than a few hundred people? Insurrections are where a group of people are attempting to change the government. These fat headed blovians only wanted to "overthrow" the building. Most serious in itself no doubt.

    "incitement"............ latter for that one. Legal terms, way over my pay scale.

    I kept wanting to ask Mr. Raskin how old his daughter Hannah was? She sounded a little young to be experiencing all that enotion over this incident. Mr Raskin let your daughter carry on with childhood pursuits. Please sir. She has time.

    It dawned on me pretty early on today that the lawyers and Impeachment Managers weren't speaking to the Senators, their minds were already made up. They were speaking mainly to the general public.

    I hadn't even heard of the Trump supporters attempting to drive the democrat coach off the road. Jeez. You can't make this stuff up. I predict several major movies. Who will play Trump? Maybe Trump if he isn't rotting in the hooscow.

    I am now entirely convinced that the intention of the rioters was to stop the certification, something I had not seen clearly previously. Thank you Mitch.

    More comments on the video presentations at a latter date.

    Better than a hockey game today. Much.

  22. #172
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    I thought Mcconnell delivered the most blisteringly powerful critique of what happened on that fateful day.
    ...covering his ass: he voted not guilty to appease tRumpers and then listed the reasons he should have voted guilty...a hypocrite of the highest rank...

  23. #173
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    Absolute sickening performance from McConnel the hypocrite.

  24. #174
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    All I said TC is that he delivered the most blistering critique. I can't remember ever seeing anyone thrown another soul under the bus with that such absolute.

    Politicians have always had a lower standard of hypocrisy than any random plebe strolling down the main street of Peoria. Show me a politician on either side who hasn't sometimes had to compromise their integrity. John Kassich thinks he's pure, but then he's a legend in his own mind.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    All I said TC is that he delivered the most blistering critique
    ...noted...McConnell's still a hypocrite and you're still a Canadian...

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