Thread: Cost of Immigration

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Quote: Originally Posted by colourful-era they are draining the resources of the UK and thus creating poverty for certain sections of the native British population.

Ant Robertson: Can you substantiate this rather bizarre claim?

Yes, very easily - try getting a job in the UK without a vast array of qualifications - very difficult these days thanks to all our new 'friends'. Thus, those British locals unable to become highly qualified or are unprepared to work for exploitative wages are forced to endure poverty due to all the new immigrants.

Originally Posted by stroller

I don't think TEFLers make enough to send back, generally speaking. And the poor from Isan wouldn't be any good as English teachers - not a good example.

you've got the wrong end of the stick there old chap - I didn't mean Tefl people were taking the jobs off Isan peasants at all but, rather, that if all teachers here were to send their money back to their home countries the economy of Thailand would lose out and thus the poor here would indirectly suffer as a consequence.

Originally Posted by colourful-era

forced to endure poverty

More like they prefer to live on the dole instead of getting a low-paid job, a British trait well cultivated over the last decades.

The dole being paid for ultimately by those who do work, natives and immigrants alike.

Don't take me wrong, I don't mind at all, it's a life-style choice. But hardly the immigrants' fault.

There is some truth in what you are saying, Stroller. There are a lot of people who only want to milk the system, but you are generalising that all the Brits who can't find a job are loving it on the dole & this is simply not true.

If somebody's on the dole their reasons are entirely a matter for them. However, at the local hospital, the window cleaner's contract - which he has had for 20+ years - has recently been scrapped for some Polish outfit to take over.

What job do you expect a 50 year old window cleaner & his crew to find when they start looking for a new one?

There simply is no jobs for them any more.

Originally Posted by colourful-era

Yes, very easily - try getting a job in the UK without a vast array of qualifications

Try getting a job anywhere without qualifications these days. It's not something unique to the UK nor is it related solely to immigration. And none of which explains your claim that they are "draining resources" anyway.

Originally Posted by colourful-era

Thus, those British locals unable to become highly qualified or are unprepared to work for exploitative wages are forced to endure poverty due to all the new immigrants.

Wages in the UK, exploitative or not, are set and protected by legislation. Again, it has nothing to do with immigrants. If a British 'local' is not prepared to work for X amount of pounds and an immigrant is then that's an issue with the work ethic of the British 'local'.

So frankly I fail to see how you've established either that immigrants are a 'drain on resources' or that they are 'causing poverty for certain sections of the British population'. Perhaps you could direct me to some accounts or studies of this alleged poverty caused by immigrants?

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

'drain on resources'

See OP.

The main one that I can see is healthcare. If I am ill I don't bother going to the Dr any more, as the queue outside the surgery is halfway round the block.

There are Dr's around here that have hung up signs saying 'No More Immigrant Registrations' or something like that. Your average family GP is been swamped with new patients & can't cope.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

Your average family GP is been swamped with new patients & can't cope.

What a load of bollocks. Go and live in a different part of town.

^

I'll get you a link later.

What's the point of moving if they are everywhere?

^ You've got a good point. I lived in Knightsbridge and the place was lousy with them....er, wait I think they all had more money than me...

^
Ditto Kensington where I stay when I go for work.

^ I wonder if South Ken is still nice and white?

Originally Posted by stroller

The dole being paid for ultimately by those who do work, natives and immigrants alike.

it is not being paid for by those working that then choose to send most of their wages abroad - this is clearly taking money out of the country whilst at the same time preventing an unskilled local person from working - ie: a net outgoing of money from the country.

Obviously , if you are a native of Britain and choose to send your money overseas that is a different matter - that is an acceptable mode of behaviour.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Wages in the UK, exploitative or not, are set and protected by legislation. Again, it has nothing to do with immigrants

it has everything to do with immigrants - it is these people that are keeping the wages low. Several years ago (in relative terms) one would be better off in a low-paid job yet now as all these desperadoes from Latvia, Romania and Kosovo are willing to work for nothing then it forces local people to do the same.

If a Thai country person considers shitting in a hole a form of modern convenience then why should we? - same logic - a Kosovon will work 7 days a wk for 120 GBP as to him that's a good wage - but not the fault of the British.

so why should a UK citizen have to accept lower wages because the new immigrants are coming from economically challenged countries -

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Perhaps you could direct me to some accounts or studies of this alleged poverty caused by immigrants?

like I said earlier - try going to the UK and finding a job (if you are unskilled)

Originally Posted by colourful-era

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Wages in the UK, exploitative or not, are set and protected by legislation. Again, it has nothing to do with immigrants

it has everything to do with immigrants - it is these people that are keeping the wages low. Several years ago (in relative terms) one would be better off in a low-paid job yet now as all these desperadoes from Latvia, Romania and Kosovo are willing to work for nothing then it forces local people to do the same.

If a Thai country person considers shitting in a hole a form of modern convenience then why should we? - same logic - a Kosovon will work 7 days a wk for 120 GBP as to him that's a good wage - but not the fault of the British.

so why should a UK citizen have to accept lower wages because the new immigrants are coming from economically challenged countries -

I think you've missed the point - there is a statutorily guarunteed so-called 'minimum wage'. This is regularly adjusted for inflation. It is illegal to pay anyone under this amount for any job.

It's not immigrants who set this level of wage, it's dependant upon the Govt. and economic policy. So it matters not one jot what some immigrant is prepared to work for, if a job is minimum wage they will be paid minimum wage.

So in point of fact it has nothing to do with immigrants - if 'native' Brits aren't prepared to work for minimum wage or have issues with it then they should take it up with their elected representatives, the ones who set it.

Originally Posted by colourful-era

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Perhaps you could direct me to some accounts or studies of this alleged poverty caused by immigrants?

like I said earlier - try going to the UK and finding a job (if you are unskilled)

That's not what I asked for. You've claimed that immigrants have caused poverty in certain sections, I'd like to see you substantiate that claim please. Repeating it simply isn't going to wash.

^^whenever I see comments like this I always want to ask:

"so, if things are so tough, what's stopping you from moving elsewhere in Europe?" [after all, the same rules apply]

Then I remember, by and large your all fucking ignorant and wouldn't be able to find a job elsewhere.

Fact of the matter is that in the UK people believe that they are owed something, the rest of us have to get out there and actually do it.

So the immigrants are making life hard for you. Boo-hoo. Get off your arses and start making things competitive (like getting an education). Otherwise, shut the fuck up!

Originally Posted by colourful-era

a Kosovon will work 7 days a wk for 120 GBP as to him that's a good wage - but not the fault of the British.

What's the minimum wage at the moment?
Sure you're not talking about illegal work?

William = Right wing bigot

Originally Posted by stroller

What's the minimum wage at the moment? Sure you're not talking about illegal work?

5.35 GBP last time I checked.

This 120 pound figure is attained after various legal 'deductions' (not illegal work although that is worth bearing in mind too)

That's about what I took home 23 years ago as a starting wage.
Maybe "New Labour" ain't all that good, which is what most of us knew from the start.

^^William seems to think it is a good wage.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

In London I have no problem with immigrants, good luck to them. They just want a good standard of living for their families, as do we all.

Space is the problem though - London will soon end up as overcrowded as Bangkok - what is the benefit of that?

^a good wage is one you negotiate.

I just hate people who complain because they think they're owed something.

Get a life and get over it.

Interesting debate on question time tonight, which is very relevant to this thread.
It started about 20 minutes into the show.

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Question Time

Originally Posted by colourful-era

it is not being paid for by those working that then choose to send most of their wages abroad - this is clearly taking money out of the country whilst at the same time preventing an unskilled local person from working - ie: a net outgoing of money from the country

How on earth do you think benefits such as the 'Dole' are funded? By voluntary contributions!? Immigrants working in the UK pay tax, that tax is used to fund any number of public schemes, benfits amongst them.

So quite how you've managed to come to the conclusion that immigrants aren't contributing because they send their money home is beyond me. And all that without even looking at the gross generalisation that they are all sending their money abroad in the first place.

Originally Posted by colourful-era

Obviously , if you are a native of Britain and choose to send your money overseas that is a different matter - that is an acceptable mode of behaviour.

Why? Why is that "an acceptable mode of behaviour" for a 'native' Brit and not an immigrant? What's the difference? According to your rationale both hurt the local economy equally. So how do you make the distinction?