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  1. #226
    Member TheMadBaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Its really just fucking hilarious that you think that.

    Just imagine a right wing proud boy, ran after and tried to take a loaded gun of an Antifa member. And the Antifa member blew him away. You'd all be laughing and saying self defense (of course)
    Its really just fucking hilarious that you think that. I posted a response in a thread where I had been accused of an assumed right-wing bias, and now I'm defending my position in a thread where those who share my position are being accused of left-wing bias.

    If an Antifa member were to attend a fascist rally with a loaded rifle, provoke the fascists, and open fire on them when they rise to the bait, he'd very probably be found guilty of murder, and quite rightly so.

  2. #227
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    It's great that we have someone willing to engage skidmark. I just find him a dim, tedious c u n t.

  3. #228
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadBaron View Post
    Its really just fucking hilarious that you think that. I posted a response in a thread where I had been accused of an assumed right-wing bias, and now I'm defending my position in a thread where those who share my position are being accused of left-wing bias.

    If an Antifa member were to attend a fascist rally with a loaded rifle, provoke the fascists, and open fire on them when they rise to the bait, he'd very probably be found guilty of murder, and quite rightly so.
    Show me anywhere in the self defense laws that would support your claim.

    There is no way that a murder charge can stick here. You cannot attack people who are in possession of guns in an open/carry state , and expect that they will be charged with murder when they defend themselves.

    I posted a video of a criminal defense attorney saying it has to be self defense. Post a defense attorney saying its murder

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Show me anywhere in the self defense laws that would support your claim.
    You are not from the US. You are clueless about laws here.

  5. #230
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadBaron View Post
    Its really just fucking hilarious that you think that. I posted a response in a thread where I had been accused of an assumed right-wing bias, and now I'm defending my position in a thread where those who share my position are being accused of left-wing bias.

    If an Antifa member were to attend a fascist rally with a loaded rifle, provoke the fascists, and open fire on them when they rise to the bait, he'd very probably be found guilty of murder, and quite rightly so.
    I already said earlier in the thread , that I don't own any guns. Because I think they are problematic.

    Guns are like having a personal nuclear weapon. You own them to prevent ppl from doing harm to you.

    You can't force ppl to use them and then cry foul. I doubt Rittenhouse would be successfuly charged even in canada

    Canadian law

    34 (1) A person is not guilty of an offence if
    (a) they believe on reasonable grounds that force is being used against them or another person or that a threat of force is being made against them or another person;
    (b) the act that constitutes the offence is committed for the purpose of defending or protecting themselves or the other person from that use or threat of force; and
    (c) the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances.

    Read more: Canadian Self-Defense Law: Three Things You Absolutely Must Know
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    (a) the nature of the force or threat;
    (b) the extent to which the use of force was imminent and whether there were other means available to respond to the potential use of force;
    (c) the person’s role in the incident;
    (d) whether any party to the incident used or threatened to use a weapon;
    (e) the size, age, gender and physical capabilities of the parties to the incident
    Last edited by Backspin; 21-12-2020 at 09:18 PM.

  6. #231
    Member TheMadBaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Show me anywhere in the self defense laws that would support your claim.
    No. I'm not the one contending that such laws apply here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    You cannot attack people who are in possession of guns in an open/carry state , and expect that they will be charged with murder when they defend themselves.
    I'm not suggesting that the victims had any such expectation. I doubt that they got themselves killed in order that specific charges be brought against their killer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    I posted a video of a criminal defense attorney saying it has to be self defense. Post a defense attorney saying its murder
    Well, I'll try, but it'll take me a while to find one. Then I'll have to find a box big enough to fit him in. He might resist, and the Royal Mail's postal service has been greatly disrupted by COVID-19.... as such, he might not be saying anything at all by the time he arrives. But let's give it a shot; what is your postal address?

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Canadian law

    34 (1) A person is not guilty of an offence if
    (a) they believe on reasonable grounds that force is being used against them or another person or that a threat of force is being made against them or another person;
    (b) the act that constitutes the offence is committed for the purpose of defending or protecting themselves or the other person from that use or threat of force; and
    (c) the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances.

    Read more: Canadian Self-Defense Law: Three Things You Absolutely Must Know
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    (a) the nature of the force or threat;
    (b) the extent to which the use of force was imminent and whether there were other means available to respond to the potential use of force;
    (c) the person’s role in the incident;
    (d) whether any party to the incident used or threatened to use a weapon;
    (e) the size, age, gender and physical capabilities of the parties to the incident

    Last edited by Backspin; Today at XX:18 PM.
    Have you finished editing? Because, this is just arse.

  8. #233
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    Fuck Canadia.The actual relevant self-defense law is:

    2014 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations
    939. Crimes - general provisions.
    939.48 Self-defense and defense of otters.

    939.48 Self-defense and defense of others. :: 2014 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

  9. #234
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadBaron View Post
    Fuck Canadia.The actual relevant self-defense law is:

    2014 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations
    939. Crimes - general provisions.
    939.48 Self-defense and defense of otters.

    939.48 Self-defense and defense of others. :: 2014 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

    Yes indeed. And if you think that is going to help your side of the argument, you'd be mistaken.

    They even have good witness testimony and possibly a audio recording of Rosenbaum threatening to kill Rittenhouse

    Even better video here

    At 0:24, you can see Rosenbaum get right into Rittenhouses physical space before any shot is fired (the author of the video thinks this is an indictment of Rittenhouse)

    Last edited by Backspin; 21-12-2020 at 11:44 PM.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    And if you think that is going to help your side of the argument, you'd be mistaken
    Says the guy trying to post Canadian law, and failing....

    No, I don't think Wisconsin self-defense law helps anybody's side of the argument. I don't think it's relevant to the case. I thought it might help you to frame a coherent argument that I might be able to get my teeth into, but you'd have to read it and cite it. Too many big words?

  11. #236
    Member TheMadBaron's Avatar
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    Here's your lawyer pointing out the major flaw in the self-defense argument, while admitting that he doesn't know Wisconsin firearms law:



    "Wisconsin generally prohibits the intentional transfer of any firearm to an individual under age 18.
    The state also generally prohibits the possession of a firearm by any person under age 18."

    Minimum Age to Purchase & Possess in Wisconsin | Giffords

    Just by being there with an illegally held rifle, Rittenhouse was engaged in unlawful conduct. After that, the question of whether provocation might nullify the privilege of self-defense gets a bit complicated, but I'll have a go as soon as someone presents such an argument (one that doesn't require that the offence took place in Canadia, Narnia, or anywhere but Wisconsin).

    I think Rittenhouse is guilty of murder. Unlike some, I don't want him killed - he was a child at the time the offense was commited (he still is, for another couple of weeks). I do think that he should be convicted of murder, and that they should sentence him to time served and to have his bottom smacked very, very hard.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    It's great that we have someone willing to engage skidmark. I just find him a dim, tedious c u n t.
    To be fair we did engage him initially . . . and whoever TheMadBarron is clearly hasn't - fresh energy.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadBaron View Post
    939.48 Self-defense and defense of otters.




    socal/backspin/skidmark needs to up his game

  13. #238
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadBaron View Post
    Here's your lawyer pointing out the major flaw in the self-defense argument, while admitting that he doesn't know Wisconsin firearms law:

    "Wisconsin generally prohibits the intentional transfer of any firearm to an individual under age 18.
    The state also generally prohibits the possession of a firearm by any person under age 18."



    Just by being there with an illegally held rifle, Rittenhouse was engaged in unlawful conduct. After that, the question of whether provocation might nullify the privilege of self-defense gets a bit complicated, but I'll have a go as soon as someone presents such an argument (one that doesn't require that the offence took place in Canadia, Narnia, or anywhere but Wisconsin).
    .
    The lawyer in the video specifically states that these would be politicized charges.


    I think Rittenhouse is guilty of murder. Unlike some, I don't want him killed - he was a child at the time the offense was commited (he still is, for another couple of weeks). I do think that he should be convicted of murder, and that they should sentence him to time served and to have his bottom smacked very, very hard

    Thats an emotional response. I assumed before the details came out, that he fired into a crowd or fired some warning shots that went awry. And in that case yes. That's just NOT self defense in any way. And he has to face charges.

    But he didn't shoot into any crowd. Or fire recklessly. He fired only when someone violated his immediate personal space and posed a threat to him.

  14. #239
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    To be fair we did engage him initially . . . and whoever TheMadBarron is clearly hasn't - fresh energy.

    socal/backspin/skidmark needs to up his game
    Oh do i ever.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    The lawyer in the video specifically states that these would be politicized charges.
    And? Had you finished that thought? I reckon there's at least another two thirds of it before it makes an argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Or fire recklessly.
    He shot his first victim in the head. It might be in the best interests of the accused to accept that he fired recklessly, or the whole thing starts to look a bit more murdery. It begs questions like, why didn't he shoot Rosenbaum in the leg, once?

    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    He fired only when someone violated his immediate personal space and posed a threat to him.
    Yes. That's illegal, you know. If I slap you in the face with a kipper, and scream at you that I'm going to kill you, you get to push me away, try to restrain me, try to beat me up, even to break my nose with the butt of your assault rifle if you have one to hand.

    You don't get to shoot me.

  16. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Oh do i ever.
    Can someone with a big screen tell me what this shows? Where Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse are indicated, I can only see three blobs, at least two of which are probably people. I kind of get the feeling that I'm supposed to be able to see what they're doing, or something.

  17. #242
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    If Rittenhouse’s life wasn’t screwed already, he’s making sure he’s screwed. Can’t believe this guy’s mother plays a part in this.


    Motion to change Rittenhouse's bond agreement after allegedly flashing white-power signs at bar

    Kyle Rittenhouse. Murder or self defense ?-ecd1880d-158f-431c-9720-8d36847a3f78-png

    KENOSHA — Kenosha County prosecutors are attempting to modify Kyle Rittenhouse's bond agreement after they say the 18-year-old flashed white-power signs while posing for photos, drank several beers and was 'loudly serenaded' with the Proud Boys' official song at a Mount Pleasant bar.


    Rittenhouse, who is charged with shooting and killing two people and injuring a third during protests and unrest in Kenosha last summer, was released from Kenosha County Jail on a $2 million bond. That bond agreement, in its current state, does not restrict Rittenhouse from entering a bar or drinking alcohol - as those underage are allowed to do in the company of parents in Wisconsin - nor does it stop him from fraternizing with known members of white supremacist groups.

    In a motion to modify Rittenhouse's bond Wednesday, the Kenosha County District Attorney's Office details Rittenhouse's Jan. 5 visit to Pudgy’s Pub with his mother. Rittenhouse stopped at the Mount Pleasant tavern shortly after pleading not guilty to homicide charges in connection to the Kenosha shooting. Rittenhouse's attorneys argue he fired his rifle in self-defense.

    The prosecutors are now asking Rittenhouse's bond be changed to include the following:


    The defendant shall be prohibited from possessing or consuming alcohol.


    The defendant shall not be present in any establishment where alcohol is served.


    The defendant shall be prohibited from making any public display of any “white power" or “white supremacy” signs, symbols, or hand gestures.


    The defendant shall have no contact with any known militia members or known members of any violent white power/white supremacist groups or organizations, including but not limited to the group identified as the “Proud Boys.”

    According to documents from Kenosha prospectors Wednesday, Rittenhouse, his mother and several other adults arrived at Pudgy's Pub on Washington Avenue. Local law enforcement was soon notified of Rittenhouse's presence there, and later gathered surveillance video and still footage of his visit to the bar. [Those photos are included in this article].


    Rittenhouse was at the bar for about an hour and a half, prosecutors say. He wore a t-shirt that read "Free as F***."


    After arriving outside at the bar, Rittenhouse posed for photos with two other men in his group. In these photos, Rittenhouse and the other men flashed the "OK" sign, which has been co-opted as a "white power" sign by white supremacists, according to prosecutors.

    After posing for the photos, Rittenhouse entered the bar and was served a beer by the bartender, the motion states. He consumed a total of three beers in the time he was at Pudgy's.


    Within a few minutes of entering the bar, Rittenhouse was also "loudly serenaded" by five adult men in his group with the song, "Proud of Your Boy" - an obscure song written for the 1992 Disney film "Aladdin," prosecutors state.


    The white supremacist group, the Proud Boys, was in fact named after this song, and the song is sung by members of the group, the motion says.
    Rittenhouse posed for several more photographs with the men in the bar. In each of these photos, Rittenhouse and the other men flashed the "OK" sign used by white supremacists, according to prosecutors.


    "The defendant then remained with these 'Proud Boys' for the entire time he was in the bar," the motion states.


    Motion to modify Rittenhouse's bond


    Prosecutors thus argue in their motion that Rittenhouse first should not be allowed to possess or consume alcohol. They state that Rittenhouse was 17 when he allegedly shot the three victims; that he is now 18 and an Illinois resident; that consumption can increase the likelihood of violent, criminal acts - combined with the reality that Rittenhouse is accused of the most serious criminal offense in Wisconsin, first-degree intentional homicide, they argue.


    Prosecutors also argue Rittenhouse should be restricted from associating with known militia members or known members of any violent, white power or white supremacist groups. They argue that the group has advocated for violence, has been involved in extremist rallies and movements, and its members have been arrested for committing crimes.


    Prosecutors write: "The defendant’s continued association with members of a group that prides itself on violence, and the use of their symbols, raises the significant possibility of future harm. Further, this association may serve to intimidate potential witnesses, who may be unwilling to testify in this case because they may fear that the defendant’s associates with harm them or their families."


    Rittenhouse will be back in Kenosha County Court on March 10 for his final pre-trial appearance.



    Motion to change Rittenhouse'''s bond agreement after allegedly flashing white-power signs at bar
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kyle Rittenhouse. Murder or self defense ?-ecd1880d-158f-431c-9720-8d36847a3f78-png  

  18. #243
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Unkempt beards and massive guts certainly seem to be obligatory with this lot.


    Particularly unsightly on their womenfolk.

  19. #244
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    Let us hope this is his swan song before a long prison sentence.

  20. #245
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Probably the only way he'll avoid a heart condition.

  21. #246
    Making people dance. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    The prosecutors are now asking Rittenhouse's bond be changed to include the following:


    The defendant shall be prohibited from possessing or consuming alcohol.


    The defendant shall not be present in any establishment where alcohol is served.
    I don't see the point or reason in that, other than them being dicks.

    Why should a legally innocent person, that is not in custody, be barred from consuming alcohol?

  22. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Probably the only way he'll avoid a heart condition.


    I just noticed the lard asses.

  23. #248
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    Skidmark's bro, been white knighting for the murderer since day one. He started a dedicated thread about him.

  24. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by aging one View Post
    Skidmark's bro
    Yep the dimwit will continue to humiliate himself.

  25. #250
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Isn't he here for long enough without people preparing for his arrival too?

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