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  1. #451
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakey View Post
    The only thing making China powerful is the US and EU trade deficits
    where is your data from?

    this is.. 2019

    Attachment 65318
    .....

    Australia V China-1-2-jpg
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    China Exports By Country........
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Australia V China-ce-c-jpg  
    Last edited by OhOh; 03-03-2021 at 06:18 PM.

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Or a toerag for the USA.
    Just because several policies are similar to another country's doesn't make it a toerag - but that logic seems to escape you

  3. #453
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    Oh, so Our policy was to invade Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Interesting.

  4. #454
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    Did, so it was. Logical.

    But then you do realise that's a gross over-simplification . . . and Vietnam - clusterfuck everyone should have stayed out of. Why do you think en gros about everything?

  5. #455
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    Because it was not our policy, at all- and neither did we 'approve' of the bloody slaughter in Iraq and Afghanistan, at all (I should know). VN a bit more complex- those were the days of Domino theory. We just dutifully tagged along, and participated in the utterly pointless murder of foreign people, in various ghastly ways.

    I sincerely hope those days are over, and the substantial counterweight provided by our essential trade relationship with China will prove a useful foil in this regard. But we too have innocent blood on our hands.

    At least the Chinese do not bomb other people, invade other countries, sponsor bloody conflicts, and constantly plot to overthrow foreign governments by any foul means. And they certainly do not ask us to participate in slaughter.
    Last edited by sabang; 04-03-2021 at 06:59 AM.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    At least the Chinese do not bomb other people, invade other countries, sponsor bloody conflicts, and constantly plot to overthrow foreign governments by any foul means.
    Yea . . . you weren't too far off in your first paragraph but this one above just shows that you're a one-eyed fool

  7. #457
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    Ah good, now PH is reduced to a buffoonish parody, how easily. Kindly give some examples, in the current century, of:-


    1. Foreign countries that china has invaded
    2. Foreign countries that china has bombed
    3. Foreign governments that china has tried to topple illegally- eg via coup, revolution, or invasion
    4. Foreign countries that have been asked by china to join their military in invading other &/or bombing other countries
    5. Bonus points for a quantitative comparison of the number of human beings killed by chinese vs american miltary action, either direct or sponsored
    6. Further bonus points for a quantitative comparison on the number of humans murdered by australian military forces at the behest of china vs america



    Over to you einstein.

  8. #458
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    Chinkies just do it in a sneaky way.

    I wonder how many lives were lost and screwed up in Tibet ? I'd say that every Tibetan there has been negatively impacted.

  9. #459
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    I'd say that every Tibetan there has been negatively impacted.
    Then you would be wrong actually. China has been throwing money at the place, indeed a high speed rail line was opened a couple of years ago. Several Tibetans are doing very well thank you, and have no wish to secede or gain more autonomy from China. Even the Dalai Lama has ceased calling for Tibetan independence- rather more autonomy within the PRC. Others no doubt are ardently opposed to Chinese rule. The poorest Tibetans are to be found in the Mustang region of Nepal, not Tibet SAR. Things are never as black and white as is painted to you by propaganda.

  10. #460
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    The high speed rail line is probably to bring in masses of Han Chinese tourists. Indeed, why else, apart from one-way travel by Han Chinese being brought in to populate the place and skew the population ratio in their favour. ?

    The Dalai Lama has been slowly worn down and is being less vocal about independence as it riles the Chinese too much. Autonomy is more realistic.

  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Several Tibetans are doing very well thank you
    And there we have it, sabang's justification for cultural genocide is that "several Tibetans are doing very well".

    I think the Vichy did very well for a while, too.

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latindancer View Post
    is probably to bring in masses of Han Chinese tourists. Indeed, why else, apart from one-way travel by Han Chinese being brought
    You may wish to consider unless a producer can deliver their goods/service to a market, they cannot sell their goods/service.

    Hence a need to provide road, rail, air, communications, schools, hospitals, clean water ....

    You may have had such things since you were born. I did.

    But some around the world, even today, are still waiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    "several Tibetans are doing very well".
    Tibet's GDP grows by 191 times from 1959 to 2018: white paper

    2019-03-27 10:54:42Xinhua Editor : Mo Hong'e ECNS App Download

    Tibet's 2018 GDP reached 147.76 billion yuan (22 billion U.S. dollars), about 191 times more than the 1959 figure calculated at comparable prices, said a white paper released Wednesday by China's State Council Information Office.

    Through 60 years of hard work, the people in Tibet have seen agriculture and animal husbandry become increasingly modernized, said the white paper, titled "Democratic Reform in Tibet -- Sixty Years On."

    The added value of agriculture, forestry, animal husbandry, fisheries and related service industries rose from 128 million yuan in 1959 to 13.41 billion yuan in 2018. Grain yield increased from 182,900 tonnes in 1959 to more than 1 million tonnes in 2018, it said.

    Tibet's modern industry started from scratch and has grown steadily, the white paper said, adding that Tibet's industrial added value increased from 15 million yuan in 1959 to 11.45 billion yuan in 2018.

    Tibet has accomplished a fundamental change and optimization in economic structure, the white paper said, noting that the share of added value from primary industry in GDP dropped from 73.6 percent in 1959 to 8.8 percent in 2018, while the share of secondary industry rose to 42.5 percent and the share of tertiary industry increased to 48.7 percent.

    The tertiary industry in Tibet is thriving and tourism is developing rapidly, the white paper said, noting that in 2018, Tibet received 33.69 million tourist visits, with a total tourism revenue of 49 billion yuan.

    More than 100,000 farmers and herdsmen have earned more through tourism and Tibet has become an international tourist destination, it said.

    Infrastructure has been improved in Tibet, as a comprehensive transportation network composed of highways, railways and air routes has been formed, it added.

    Tibet's GDP grows by 191 times from 1959 to 2018: white paper
    Last edited by OhOh; 04-03-2021 at 08:05 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  13. #463
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    1966 – Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution reaches Tibet and results in the destruction of a large number of monasteries and cultural artefacts. A sociopolitical movement set into motion by Mao Zedong, the Cultural Revolution’s stated goal was to preserve communist ideology in the country by purging remnants of capitalist and traditional elements and to re-impose Maoist thought as the dominant ideology. The movement paralysed China politically and negatively affected the country’s economy and society to a significant degree. This “most severe setback and the heaviest losses suffered by the Party, the country, and the people since the founding of the People’s Republic” particularly affected Tibet, where resentment against the Chinese remained high. The years of the Cultural Revolution inflict heavy casualties on Tibet. During these 10 years, 1.2 million Tibetans are worked, starved or beaten to death. Parents were forced to bury their children alive for any act of disobedience, dissidents were doused in excrement and urine and set alight or had their nose or an ear cut off. The Cultural Revolution was one of the bloodiest chapters in world history, let alone Chinese history, and cemented a bloodstained divide between the Tibetan people and the Chinese.

    What Is The Conflict Between Tibet & China? Know About It

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    During these 10 years, 1.2 million Tibetans are worked, starved or beaten to death. Parents were forced to bury their children alive for any act of disobedience, dissidents were doused in excrement and urine and set alight or had their nose or an ear cut off.
    Luckily, according to sabang, some lived well.

  15. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Luckily, according to sabang, some lived well.
    Several in fact. Puts that paltry genocide into perspective, doesn't it?

  16. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    1966 – Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution reaches Tibet and results in the destruction of a large number of monasteries and cultural artefacts.
    This article is more than 12 years old
    (nowadays, The Guardian would hardly issue it - but it does not change anything on the facts)

    What we don't hear about Tibet

    Sorrel Neuss

    While the world moralises over China's occupation, feudalism and abuse in Tibetan culture has been conveniently forgotten
    Wed 11 Feb 2009 22.00 GMT

    Sexual abuse in monasteries and oppressive feudalism in traditional Tibetan society has been factored out of the argument against China's occupation, oversimplifying it.

    Han Chinese guards deliberately obstruct the pilgrim route through Lhasa to the holy Jokhang temple by sipping tea at strategically placed tables in the middle of the road. In front of the Potala, the Dalai Lama's former seat of power, an imposing guarded concrete square glorifies China's occupation.

    Tibet seems like as a celestial paradise held in chains, but the west's tendency to romanticise the country's Buddhist culture has distorted our view. Popular belief is that under the Dalai Lama, Tibetans lived contentedly in a spiritual non-violent culture, uncorrupted by lust or greed: but in reality society was far more brutal than that vision.

    Last December, Ye Xiaowen, head of China's administration for religious affairs, published a piece in the state-run China Daily newspaper that, although propaganda, rings true. "History clearly reveals that the old Tibet was not the Shangri-La that many imagine", he wrote "but a society under a system of feudal serfdom."

    Until 1959, when China cracked down on Tibetan rebels and the Dalai Lama fled to northern India, around 98% of the population was enslaved in serfdom. Drepung monastery, on the outskirts of Lhasa, was one of the world's largest landowners with 185 manors, 25,000 serfs, 300 pastures, and 16,000 herdsmen. High-ranking lamas and secular landowners imposed crippling taxes, forced boys into monastic slavery and pilfered most of the country's wealth – torturing disobedient serfs by gouging out their eyes or severing their hamstrings.

    Tashi Tsering, now an English professor at Lhasa University is representative of Tibetans that do not see China's occupation as worse tyranny. He was taken from his family near Drepung at 13 and forced into the Dalai Lama's personal dance troupe. Beaten by his teachers, Tsering put up with rape by a well-connected monk in exchange for protection. In his autobiography, The Struggle for Modern Tibet, Tsering writes that China brought long-awaited hope when is laid claim to Tibet in 1950.

    After studying at the University of Washington, Tsering returned to Chinese-occupied Tibet in 1964, convinced that the country could modernise effectively by cooperating with the Chinese. Denounced during the Cultural Revolution, arrested in 1967 to spend six years in prison and labour camps, he still maintains that Mao Tse-Tung liberated his people.

    Caught between a system reminiscent of medieval Europe and a colonial force that brought forced collectivisation and similar human rights abuses, Tibet moved from one oppressive regime to another.

    During the 1990s, Tibetans suspected of harbouring nationalist tendencies were arrested and imprisoned and in 2006, Romanian climbers witnessed Chinese guards shooting a group of refugees headed for the Nepalese border. China's abhorrent treatment of "political subversives" has rightly spurned a global Free Tibet movement, diminishing the benefits that it did bring to society.

    After 1959, it abolished slavery, serfdom and unfair taxes. Creating thousands of jobs through new infrastructure projects, it built Tibet's first hospitals and opened schools in every major village, bringing education to the masses. Clean water was pumped into the main towns and villages and the average life expectancy has almost doubled since 1950, to 60.

    Even so, in 2001 the Dalai Lama said: "Tibet, materially, is very, very backward. Spiritually it is quite rich. But spirituality can't fill our stomachs."

    Freedom for Tibet is not simply a case of liberation from China and the reinstatement of traditional values. Around 70 per cent of the population lives below the poverty line and enhanced spirituality alone will not improve economic conditions. Poverty is not quaint no matter how colourful the culture and the Tibet question is one that should be addressed from a rational, rather than an idealised viewpoint.

    Nearby Bhutan, which has a similar Buddhist culture that it tried to preserve by banning television until 1999 and limiting foreign visitors, only held its first democratic elections in 2007. The Dalai Lama now promotes democracy, but Tibet may well have looked worse than it does today if the old order had been left to its own devices.

  17. #467
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    There are many readings about Tibet issue, (unless we rather reduce our thinking as told us per our Master of Demagogy)

    e.g.
    Human Rights in Tibet before 1959 by Robert Barnett

    Tibet serf debate shadows China'''s "emancipation day" | Reuters

  18. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    There are many readings about Tibet issue
    Yes, and they all point to China committing genocide - so fuck off

  19. #469
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    Some genocide:-


    Ethnic Tibetans make up over 90% of the population. Over 78% of the total population follows the religion of Tibetan Buddhism. Other religions observed in the region include Bon, Chinese folk religions, Islam and Christianity.

    For many years, agriculture was the primary economy. While agriculture and animal husbandry are still the top industries, other jobs including driving taxis and working in hotels have helped to contribute to the economy. Tourism is also a growing industry. An interesting fact about Tibet is that foreign tourists were not allowed to visit the region until the 1980s. Even though foreigners are now allowed to visit the region, a Tibet Entry Permit is required. There are many popular tourist destinations in Tibet, including Potala Palace, Namtso Lake, and Mount Everest.

    Tibet has seen its population grow significantly in recent years. The population prior to the 1950s had already reached one million. This number had more than doubled by the 1990s. Since the early 1980s, the percentage of population growth has been in the double digits every ten years. In 2010, the population grew by over 14% since 2010 to surpass 3 million. Based on these trends, it can only be expected that Tibet’s population will continue to rise until it hits its next milestone.

    Tibet Population 2021 (worldpopulationreview.com)

  20. #470
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    Interesting . . . and the authors received all this information about Tibet from . . . the Communist Party.

    Go for it, sabang . . .

  21. #471
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    Until 1959, when China cracked down on Tibetan rebels and the Dalai Lama fled to northern India, around 98% of the population was enslaved in serfdom
    Only in 1959 Mao had cracked down on Tibetan slavery, serfdom?

    That year in some other countries some have been still more equal than others...

  22. #472
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    Go for it, sabang . . .
    Absolutely- my only commitment is to the Truth. I care not if a few peoples confirmation bias gets hurt in the process, along with a few egos. There is no genocide in Tibet- but repression?

  23. #473
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    Australia's move to scrap Victoria-China Belt and Road agreement goes viral on Weibo

    The federal government's decision to dump Victoria's Belt and Road (BRI) agreement has apparently struck a nerve in China — or at least in Beijing — with a hashtag on social media network Weibo getting more than 260 million views.
    Key points:

    The Chinese state is believed to exercise an inordinate influence on Weibo

    Most of the popular posts under the hashtag were from the accounts of state media and the Central Communist Youth League

    The reaction from Chinese-Australian business and community groups has been mixed

    While much of the social media fury has been driven by Beijing's propaganda apparatus, some business leaders in Australia say they too are disappointed by the "stupid" move.

    The federal government on Wednesday used new powers to scupper four deals Victoria had made with foreign countries: two related to the BRI and one each with the Iranian and Syrian governments.

    The BRI is a massive China-funded infrastructure network spanning Asia to Europe that includes projects like deep-water ports, pipelines, railways and airports.

    Chinese President Xi Jinping has pledged to welcome more countries to join the sprawling infrastructure-building initiative, emphasising his signature foreign relations project is aimed at strengthening China's economic and diplomatic relations around the world.

    In the wake of Wednesday's announcement, the Chinese embassy in Australia branded the federal government's actions "provocative" and "unreasonable", warning they would damage bilateral relations.
    Weibo users let loose
    Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews at Tiananmen Square in China.
    Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews travelled to China in 2017 for a Belt and Road Initiative forum.(

    Twitter: Lisa Tucker)

    Meanwhile, a hashtag literally translating to "China responds to Australia tearing up the Belt and Road agreement" went viral on China's home-grown social network.

    "Australia has no dignity. [We] need to give them a lesson," wrote Weibo user Linglingzhenyu.

    "Some [countries] just don't deserve respect," user Rumenghang wrote.

    A third posted, "Australia is mad. Now they are determined to be the lackey of America. Where is the spirit of contracts?"
    weibo screenshot
    On China's Weibo, a hashtag about China's response to Australia tearing up BRI agreements is trending.(

    ABC News: Supplied)

    Australian Strategy Policy Institute (ASPI) researcher Albert Zhang said the Chinese state exercised an inordinate influence on Weibo and the 260 million-plus views were unlikely to all be organic.

    However, he said the virality of the hashtag was being driven both by China's propaganda tools and real anger amongst the Chinese people.

    Most of the popular posts under the hashtag were from the accounts of state media and the Central Communist Youth League (CYL), a Chinese Communist Party-affiliated youth organisation whose Weibo account has over 15 million followers, he said.

    Mr Zhang said CYL was known for coordinating internet commentators to shape narratives online.

    While many of the posts that attracted high engagement were from state media, diplomats and CYL, there was also evidence of some organic nationalist sentiments, he said.

    "I think the recent sort of withdrawal or cancellation of the trade agreement with the Chinese government might potentially cast a negative portrayal of the BRI agreements around the world," he said.

    "So I think the Chinese government here is trying to stop that perception before people interpret [the withdrawal] differently."

    BRI snub 'detrimental both to self and others'

    Australia-China Business Council (ACBC) national president David Olsson said the cancellation of Victoria's BRI agreement was not unexpected, either in Australia or in Beijing.

    Mr Olsson said business leaders were taking a pragmatic approach.

    "They prefer to look beyond the politics of BRI and focus on the genuine commercial opportunities that will emerge from infrastructure investments across the Indo-Pacific region," he said.

    "Business is agnostic when it comes to BRI — their focus is on commercial opportunities."

    Australia-China Friendship Society Victorian vice-president Rendi Liu said he was surprised the federal government went through with it.

    "First of all, I feel this is a stupid action as it is detrimental both to self and others," he said.

    "Second, it is very similar to [the policy] during the Cultural Revolution that political correctness was above all.

    "I originally thought it was just a bluff, but now it seems to have been acted upon by Canberra."

    He added that the government was putting its own domestic political interests before those of the nation.

    In contrast, the Federation for a Democratic China's Australian chair, Chin Jin, said he "strongly welcomed" the decision to scrap the BRI agreement.

    "I believe the decision will help Australia defending the Australian values and principles," said Mr Chin.

    Mr Chin said he had worried the federal government was "being hesitant" on taking action against Chinese government interference, but the decision reassured him.

    "Western governments often fail to have a full picture of China's strategies to interfere in foreign countries," said Mr Chin.

    As the two governments continue to face off on issues such as the coronavirus investigation, Huawei, alleged human rights abuses in Xinjiang and wine and meat exports, Mr Zhang said this pattern on Chinese social media was likely to continue.

    "These type of viral posts are probably more likely to occur in the future, as nationalistic Chinese citizens feel more empowered to portray China in a more positive light, as well as reduce negative portrayals of the Chinese government and its policies," he said.

    https://www.abc .net.au/news/2021-04-22/australia-china-belt-road-initiative-cancellation-viral-weibo/100086594


  24. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    "These type of viral posts are probably more likely to occur in the future, as chinky propaganda farms churn out more crap," he meant to say.
    FTFY.

  25. #475
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    Good job too, that fucking asshole Andrews had no right to sign international agreements that affect Australian foreign policy. He's just a state premier.
    The Morrison government has used its sweeping new foreign veto laws to tear up Victoria’s Belt and Road agreements with China, in what the Chinese embassy has denounced as a “another unreasonable and provocative move”.


    The foreign minister, Marise Payne, said she would cancel those two deals, along with two older agreements between the Victorian government and Iranian and Syrian entities, because they were “inconsistent with Australia’s foreign policy or adverse to our foreign relations”.


    But a spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Canberra said the move showed the Australian government had “no sincerity in improving China-Australia relations”.


    “This is another unreasonable and provocative move taken by the Australian side against China,” the embassy spokesperson said on Thursday. “It is bound to bring further damage to bilateral relations, and will only end up hurting itself.”


    The federal government introduced new laws last year allowing it to review and cancel a range of international agreements struck by state and territories, councils and universities.


    While the government was always believed to have Victoria’s Belt and Road agreements in its sights, the decision was only confirmed on Wednesday evening.


    The cancellation covers a memorandum of understanding that the Labor premier, Daniel Andrews, signed with China’s national development and reform commission in 2018. That included a pledge to work together on initiatives under Xi Jinping’s signature Belt and Road infrastructure-building program.


    The veto also targets the subsequent framework for establishing a working group, at a time when relations between the Australian and Chinese governments have sunk to the lowest levels in decades.


    The Victorian agreements have long been viewed warily by the federal government and security agencies.


    Prof Rory Medcalf, head of the national security college at the Australian National University, has previously argued the Victorian government’s agreements “undermined the national interest by weakening the commonwealth government’s ability to set the terms for key international relationships”.


    Last year Medcalf said accepting the memorandum of understanding without including language on governance, environmental standards or even labour rights “serves mainly as a propaganda gift to Xi Jinping”.


    But the Chinese embassy spokesperson said on Thursday cooperation between China and Victoria under the Belt and Road Initiative was “conducive to deepening economic and trade relations between the two sides” and would “promote economic growth and the well-being of the people of Victoria”.


    Andrews has previously defended the agreements on the basis that it was important to secure an increase in infrastructure investment in Victoria.


    But Payne said she considered the agreements to fail the test in Australia’s Foreign Relations (State and Territory Arrangements) Act, which passed the parliament late last year, after “review and consideration”.


    She said states and territories had now completed their initial audit of existing arrangements with foreign national governments, as required by the legislation.


    Payne said she had so far been notified of more than 1,000 arrangements under the new legislation. She thanked the states and territories “for their cooperation and for what is developing as a cooperative approach under the scheme”.


    “The more than 1,000 notified so far reflect the richness and breadth of Australia’s international interests and demonstrate the important role played by Australia’s states, territories, universities and local governments in advancing Australia’s interests abroad,” she said in a statement.


    “I will continue to consider foreign arrangements notified under the scheme. I expect the overwhelming majority of them to remain unaffected. I look forward to ongoing collaboration with states, territories, universities and local governments in implementing the Foreign Arrangements Scheme.”


    The Victorian government did not criticise Payne’s decision when contacted for a response on Wednesday evening.


    “The Foreign Relations Act is entirely a matter for the commonwealth government,” a Victorian government spokesperson said. “The Victorian government will continue to work hard to deliver jobs, trade and economic opportunities for our state.”


    Apart from the Belt and Road deals, the other two cancelled agreements are:


    Memorandum of Understanding between the Department of Education and Training (Victoria) and the Technical and Vocational Training Organisation, Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs, the Islamic Republic of Iran, signed 25 November 2004.


    Protocol of Scientific Cooperation between the Ministry of Higher Education in the Syrian Arab Republic and the Ministry of Tertiary Education and Training of Victoria, signed 31 March 1999.


    But Payne said she had decided to approve a proposed Memorandum of Understanding between the Western Australian government and Indonesia’s Ministry of Energy and Mineral Resources. That deal focuses on cooperation on human resources development in the energy and resources sector.


    Universities have previously labelled the new foreign veto laws as “significant overreach”. They have complained the legislation is so “extraordinarily wide” that it allows the foreign affairs minister to cancel agreements with international counterparts that may go against Australia’s foreign policy, even if that policy isn’t written down anywhere, publicly available or formally decided.
    Federal government tears up Victoria’s Belt and Road agreements with China | Australia news | The Guardian

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