Thread: Australia V China

chin is building a gunboat port at Daru just off the northern tip of cape york

2018 figures

Will Uncle Xi be bovvered?

Originally Posted by OhOh

Will Uncle Xi be bovvered?

Will he? No. He couldn't give a shit about his people, nor anyone else . . . your little president for life

Originally Posted by OhOh

Have they colonised it yet:

"The southern half of the country had been colonised in 1884 by the United Kingdom as British New Guinea. With the Papua Act 1905, the UK transferred this territory to the newly formed Commonwealth of Australia, which took on its administration. Additionally, from 1905, British New Guinea was renamed as the Territory of Papua. In contrast to establishing an Australian mandate in former German New Guinea, the League of Nations determined that Papua was an external territory of the Australian Commonwealth; as a matter of law it remained a British possession. The difference in legal status meant that until 1949, Papua and New Guinea had entirely separate administrations, both controlled by Australia"

Independence achieved in 1975.

"The natives of Papua appealed to the United Nations for oversight and independence. The nation established independence from Australia on 16 September 1975, becoming a Commonwealth realm, continuing to share Queen Elizabeth II as its head of state."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea#European_encounters

Lets hope any developments can produce a more vibrant, healthier, wealthy and content country after 91 years of failed western extractive colonialism.

Good idea a bit of good ole chinese colonialism coming to a poor country near you.
BTW how much aid has china given to PNG compared to those bad old colonial masters Australia?

China gave a lot more than the Aussies.

china 3 billion

Aussies 500 million

Originally Posted by Chico

China gave a lot more than the Aussies.

china 3 billion

Aussies 500 million

Get fucked, the chinkies are sucking PNG dry.

The rapidly deteriorating state of Papua New Guinea’s economy is presenting serious challenges for the PNG government, which is already struggling to finance its 2020 budget.
But another factor looms as an equal, if not more serious, challenge. At a time of fiscal vulnerability, PNG is getting entangled with Chinese debt—which will inevitably involve some difficult decisions for the Australian government down the line.
A series of assessments of the state of the economy by banks and ratings agencies in recent weeks presents a very bleak picture. The PNG budget deficit is now projected to be over K7 billion (A$2.7 billion) in a total expenditure budget of K18 billion (A$7 billion). The PNG government hasn’t yet managed to fully finance the deficit, so it might even be higher than recent projections.
At the same time, there are signs that PNG may be at risk of increasing indebtedness to China.
The state enterprises minister, Sasindran Muthuvel, recently revealed that PNG owes China, principally through the Exim Bank of China, more than K1.6 billion (A$621 million) for communications projects alone—most of which have been carried out by Huawei. The government-owned communications company, Telikom PNG, is running up heavy operating losses which are linked to the projects Huawei has carried out. Its debts are reported to be more than K2 billion (A$777 million).
The loans include almost K1 billion (A$388 million) for the Kumul submarine communications cable linking PNG’s major centres. The project has been widely criticised for neglecting to account for the impact of earthquakes and the cable suffered multiple breaks during a tremor in May last year.
And despite all the promises about lower consumer charges and faster internet delivery, neither seems to have been delivered.
In addition, the K200 million (A$75 million) Exim Bank loan for the PNG national data centre for work carried out by Huawei must also be added to the debt total. The centre is not only a potential security risk, but is virtually non-operational, causing the relevant minister to suggest PNG shouldn’t have to repay the loan.
Then there’s the China-funded PNG national identity document project. It has stalled, with probably just one million of PNG’s eight million citizens having an identity card. Using the excuse of the Covid-19 pandemic, the PNG government has put the project on hold.
So, in the communications area alone, the amount owed to the PRC, principally through Exim Bank, is around K3 billion (A$1.2 billion), much more than official figures suggest.
But communications is just one area in which the China ‘debt-trap diplomacy’ is impacting PNG. The picture looks much worse when road construction, ports and airports are included.
Work is underway on the development of the Kavieng International Airport in New Ireland at a cost of almost K200 million (A$78 million). And work is continuing on the redevelopment of the vital Highlands Highway at a cost of close to K500 million (A$194 million). Both projects are being carried out by Chinese state-owned companies.
And construction of the signature national court complex is running well behind schedule. It’s another project being built by a Chinese company and will cost at least K480 million (A$186 million).
Reports on the quality of the roadwork and other infrastructure projects undertaken by Chinese companies across PNG indicate that the quality of construction is variable.
But it doesn’t stop there.
Some years ago, the Shenzhen Energy Group and Sinohydro were selected by PNG Power—another government-owned entity in poor financial shape—to construct the massive Ramu 2 hydro power project.
The project, which will cost at least K8 billion (A$3.1 billion), has had to be guaranteed by the PNG government under a loan from China.
Such a loan would almost certainly be beyond the capacity of PNG Power to repay and the project has been stalled for at least the last year, resulting in threats from the selected tenderers to cancel it.
The Australian government has been lobbying heavily against the project, and has put forward as an alternative a series of smaller power projects funded by a group of countries led by Australia.
But the Ramu 2 project is not dead. It has powerful backing within the PNG cabinet—and the Chinese ambassador continues to lobby strongly for it.
Late last year, Australia gave the PNG government a loan of around K1 billion (A$388 million), basically to finance the budget shortfall. It has already agreed to delay repayment. And more recently it allowed around K50 million (A$19 million) to be drawn down in cash from the aid budget to help the PNG government out.
If China applies pressure on PNG to make significant repayment on loans running into billions of dollars, the fiscal position will be even worse than it already is.
Australia has rightly been working with the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and other donor countries and agencies on a package that would essentially provide ‘structural adjustment support’ for PNG. But any such package would have tough conditions that might be unpalatable to PNG Prime Minister James Marape and his government ahead of an election in less than two years.
The Australian government is likely to be watching the deteriorating economic and fiscal outlook in PNG with growing alarm.
It also has to watch closely when Beijing starts calling in its extensive loans to the government and government-owned corporations, and pre-empt the kinds of concessions China may try to extract from PNG in return for further extensions or loan forgiveness.
Australia’s own budget deficit and national debt in light of the response to Covid-19 are eye-watering, making any decision to help PNG further very difficult politically, at least for the foreseeable future.

China’s ‘debt-trap diplomacy’ is about to challenge Papua New Guinea—and Australia | The Strategist

Originally Posted by Chico

China gave a lot more than the Aussies.

Good Lord, first Skidmark tries to talk with adults and now chico . . . someone left the special school doors unlocked.


Ok, chico - sources, thanks.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Good Lord, first Skidmark tries to talk with adults and now chico . . . someone left the special school doors unlocked.


Ok, chico - sources, thanks.

I think the saying is "Someone left the gate open at the c u n t farm".

Originally Posted by Chico

China gave a lot more than the Aussies.

china 3 billion

Aussies 500 million

I would like to see your reference where China "gave" 3 billion not loaned.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Ok, chico - sources, thanks.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

your reference

Yup . . .

Australia v China: Australian coal blocked indefinitely by Beijing | Stuff.co.nz

Foreign aid to the Pacific: an overview - Devpolicy Blog from the Development Policy Centre

That'll hurt OhNo's feelings . . . and make chico feel out of place in an adult conversation.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Foreign aid to the Pacific: an overview - Devpolicy Blog from the Development Policy Centre

Perhaps, it should have been mentioned what is written under the graph:

What the comparison suggests is that China has become the third most important source of ODA to the region, with a total of US$1.78 billion provided as development assistance between 2006 and 2016. This indicates that, while certainly significant, China remains a long way from becoming the most important donor to the region (despite common statements to this effect).

Having said that, China is an especially important donor in a handful of countries. It has provided over 50 percent of total ODA to Fiji between 2006 and 2013 (making it the largest donor), and close to 30 percent of ODA in Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga and Vanuatu, where it has become the second main source of development funding. Much of this (approximately 80 percent) takes the form of concessional loans.

So, what can we conclude? Firstly, foreign aid to the region is not going away, nor is it becoming less important. Since the turn of the century, foreign aid as a percentage of gross national income has increased in almost half of all Pacific island economies – significantly so, in the case of Tuvalu, Kiribati and Solomon Islands. It has declined significantly in the case of the resource-rich economies of PNG and Timor-Leste (see our paper for data). Secondly, aid to the region has increased over the period – in line with the international scale-up in foreign aid – but not to the extent it has in other regions, or in developing countries as a whole. A third point to note is that foreign aid is distributed very unequally in the Pacific, with per capita aid to the poorest countries often quite limited. This is troubling from a poverty alleviation perspective. Lastly, our analysis shows that while China has become an important donor, it is far from the dominant player in the region – despite alarmist reporting to that effect.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Perhaps, it should have been mentioned

Perhaps you shouldn't fabricate a quote, fuckwit

Originally Posted by sabang

Foreign aid to the Pacific: an overview - Devpolicy Blog from the Development Policy Centre

Muppet.

Foreign aid is defined as the voluntary transfer of resources from one country to another country. This transfer includes any flow of capital to developing countries. ... Foreign aid can be in the form of a loan or a grant. It may be in either a soft or hard loan.

And we know there is nothing "soft" about chinky "Debt Diplomacy".

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

And we know there is nothing "soft" about chinky "Debt Diplomacy".

As opposed to "..aid" from (please no names here)...
(after all, I cannot disappoint the fan of mine)

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

chinky

BTW, now, when there will be a new POTUS who is not so adversary to the "chinky" (in case that the certain connections and contributions are not just a "Russian disinformation"), hence, our "chinky" expert should change his rhetoric, shouldn't he?

Oh look, it's the puppy. Do you think him and HooHoo work opposite shifts?

Do you think they have the mental capacity to co-ordinate?

Originally Posted by panama hat

Do you think they have the mental capacity to co-ordinate?

In the same way a dog has the capacity to chase a car.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

A series of assessments of the state of the economy by banks and ratings agencies in recent weeks presents a very bleak picture. The PNG budget deficit is now projected to be over K7 billion (A$2.7 billion) in a total expenditure budget of K18 billion (A$7 billion). The PNG government hasn’t yet managed to fully finance the deficit, so it might even be higher than recent projections.
At the same time, there are signs that PNG may be at risk of increasing indebtedness to China

Translated:

Some banks and agencies are reviewing PNG due to financing and politically motivated "legal" sanction application.

Possibly the Chinese banks will offer more palatable terms and conditions, which will decrease other banks profits, leading to obscurity for them.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Australia has rightly been working with the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and other donor countries and agencies on a package that would essentially provide ‘structural adjustment support’ for PNG. But any such package would have tough conditions that might be unpalatable to PNG

On behalf of whom, OZ agencies or PNG citizens?

Some banks have decades long histories of screwing undeveloped countries.

https://www.columban.jp/upload_files...ic_Hit_Man.pdf

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

The Australian government is likely to be watching the deteriorating economic and fiscal outlook in PNG with growing alarm.

Losing a vassal always means tears.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Australia’s own budget deficit and national debt in light of the response to Covid-19 are eye-watering, making any decision to help PNG further very difficult politically, at least for the foreseeable future

When masta shouts jump, you jump boy.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

And we know there is nothing "soft" about chinky "Debt Diplomacy".

Firstly the graph is not PNG alone. Secondly the graph lacks a time scale, is it showing loans from say 1945, from when China started investing in Pacific countries or the last year when audited figures are available?

But enjoy your day discussing a useless graph.

Originally Posted by OhOh

But enjoy your day discussing a useless graph.

Useless because it doesn't come frm nor support your assertions.

Try again, China-bot.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Translated:

Some banks and agencies are reviewing PNG due to financing and politically motivated "legal" sanction application.

Possibly the Chinese banks will offer more palatable terms and conditions, which will decrease other banks profits, leading to obscurity for them.

Translation: Blah Blah Blah I have my fingers in my ears I can't hear you I have my nose up Mr. Shithole's shithole because I am a stupid chinky sycophant and I'll just post some more bollocks in the vain hope that people will believe me.