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  1. #76
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Sure, and kiss goodbye to 46% of our national exports. Bet you'd love that 'arry, but not gonna happen.
    You're the sort of spineless weasel that would kow tow to their blackmail.

    We get it.

    What they need is a bit of global support.

    If everyone started slapping tariffs on chinky tat then they would think twice about threatening everyone.

    Oh, and fuck coal. We should be leaving it in the ground in case the idiots haven't noticed.

  2. #77
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    Not gonna happen. Cry me a river.

  3. #78
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Not gonna happen. Cry me a river.
    The way the chinkies are going, you won't have any rivers, or they'll be as polluted as fuck.

  4. #79
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    "When you lie with dogs you get up with fleas". The Australian govt needs to slowly diversify away from China. They have proved they cannot be trusted. The free trade agreement is not worth the paper it's printed on.
    Unfortunately we are the foolish frog that trusted the crocodile to carry us over the river and we all know how that ends.

  5. #80
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    Absolutely. The same must be said for Kiwi businesses, especially agriculture. China is the low-hanging fruit and they happily commit to five-year agreements to buy 50-75% of production . . . until the communist party says stop. Stupid westerners believe in the rule of contractual law/agreements. China doesn't.

    So, in the meantime the producers are selling the lower quality product to the consumer at a higher price because of scarcity. The scarcity they themselves brought on. Consumers complain and the government bails out the producers who are crying.

    Fuck 'em. Many Kiwi producers are self-centred and entitled scum. (Plus, quite a few farms and orchards belong to Chinese companies.)

  6. #81
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    They have proved they cannot be trusted.
    They being the Australian government who introduced and changed previously agreed and working accommodations.

    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Stupid westerners believe in the rule of contractual law/agreements. China doesn't.
    Bollocks.

    Tthe western world renegades daily on previously agreed lawful UN supported laws and relationships. They do not abide by international law as defined by UN institutions, but introduced many politically driven restrictions utilising a raft of illegal actions utilising unproven "national security" as their only reason.

    The once mighty empires are rapidly shrinking into irrelevance. Trade, respect, military ability to deliver their sound bite boasts but most of all, leadership and the ability to improve their citizens and their global partners lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    quite a few farms and orchards belong to Chinese companies.
    Who purchased the farms from willing sellers or bombed the owners forcing them to live in concentration camps and stole the wealth by the edict of a bullying Emperor?
    Last edited by OhOh; 14-10-2020 at 01:46 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  7. #82
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Which country is spitting their dummy out because Australia and others wants to know who covered up their pesky Wuhan Virus and has responded with threats and economic damage?

    A) The Chinkies
    B) The Chinkies
    C) The fucking Chinkies again

  8. #83
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    All that the Aussie Prime Minister said was that we and others wanted an independent investigation....and the Chinky reaction was impressive.

    Methinks they do protest TOO much...

  9. #84
    last farang standing
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    The latest is that the chinese have told their mills not to buy cotton from Australia.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Tthe western world renegades daily on previously agreed lawful UN supported laws and relationships.
    Really? This 'western world' has a flag? Does it have membership at the UN? Are you utterly deranged?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Who purchased the farms from willing sellers or bombed the owners forcing them to live in concentration camps and stole the wealth by the edict of a bullying Emperor?
    Why are you creating an argument where there wasn't one? Why are you hyperventilating? Have you had your stroke?
    Again: Are you utterly deranged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    The latest is that the chinese have told their mills not to buy cotton from Australia.
    No surprise, they want to bludgeon Australia into submission for not abiding by China's arbitrary rules and vagaries.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post

    Fuck 'em. Many Kiwi producers are self-centred and entitled scum. (Plus, quite a few farms and orchards belong to Chinese companies.)
    Who is the scum?

    I know a few producers and they are not like that at all.

  12. #87
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Now the whinging chinkies are spitting their dummy at Trudeau for speaking the truth.

    Still, I'm sure they manufacture lots of cheap, shit dummies.

    China said Wednesday it has lodged solemn representations with Canada in response to media reports of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau criticizing China over its measures in Hong Kong and Xinjiang.


    During a news conference on Tuesday, Trudeau attacked Beijing's human rights record while marking the 50th anniversary of Canada's diplomatic ties with China.

    "We will continue to work with China for advancing Canadian interests and Canadian producers. At the same time, we will remain absolutely committed to working with our allies to ensure that China's approach of coercive diplomacy, its arbitrary detention of two Canadian citizens, alongside other citizens of other countries around the world, is not viewed as a successful tactic by them," he said.


    "It has put a significant strain on Canada-China relations and we will continue to highlight our concern for the Canadians detained, our concern for the protection of human rights in places like Hong Kong, in Xinjiang province with the Uighurs."
    China lodges complaint with Canada over Trudeau'''s '''coercive diplomacy''' remarks | CBC News

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Chuchok View Post
    I know a few producers and they are not like that at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Panama Hat View Post
    Many
    A few examples - dumping produce, returning seafood to the water instead of selling it domestically at a lower price, pre-selling 5 harvests and diminishing supply and increasing local price etc...

    I sat next to an Orchard owner on my flight from Nelson to Auckland last week and he was in a bit of strife re. workers and he'd fairly well cut production lines locally for his China export. He wasn't happy China was cutting imports and he was frightened by what he was seeing China do to Australia, especially with Winston Peters' rhetoric.

  14. #89
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    western world' has a flag? Does it have membership at the UN? Are you utterly deranged?
    The "western world" consists of many countries which all have their own flags. All subservient to one unexceptional bully who on a whim can and does cut their, via unproven and hence illegal "national security" accusations, balls off.

    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    dumping produce, returning seafood to the water instead of selling it domestically at a lower price, pre-selling 5 harvests and diminishing supply and increasing local price etc...
    Look around the world and you will see many withdraw product availability, e.g. limited editions of status cars, clothes, ...., to ensure the price remains stable.

    Many also reduce prices to customers who sign binding contracts stipulating multi year, fixed amounts purchase - oil and gas is one example. Australian coal is another, if the producer has a list of guaranteed long term buyers they will readily invest on a new mine. ameristan LNG another, without long term fixed price contracts no port facilities and hence sales to foreign buyers, will be built.

    Many restrict supply if they own markets, diamonds are but one example.

    It's called capitalism.
    Last edited by OhOh; 16-10-2020 at 05:26 PM.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    It's called capitalism.
    Horrible stuff. You must detest it every day you are forced to live under it . . . same thing with freedom of expression - you must loathe yourself for exercising this opportunity before you go home to Xian or Tianjin.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    A few examples - dumping produce, returning seafood to the water instead of selling it domestically at a lower price, pre-selling 5 harvests and diminishing supply and increasing local price etc...

    I sat next to an Orchard owner on my flight from Nelson to Auckland last week and he was in a bit of strife re. workers and he'd fairly well cut production lines locally for his China export. He wasn't happy China was cutting imports and he was frightened by what he was seeing China do to Australia, especially with Winston Peters' rhetoric.
    One of the seafood guys is just evil, that's for sure.

    However, most of the produces that I know are just normal hard working people trying to get ahead. If you want real bad, then go no further than Air NZ or any shipping company (not withstanding the Chinese National carrier who have had a large influence ('Merica do not have a horse in this race...). Now these guys are manipulating our market and fucking up the supply chain, but that's another story...

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Chuchok View Post
    One of the seafood guys is just evil, that's for sure.
    Profits yet still asking for handouts and subsidies. Yup. And Labor bends over backwards while others (Briscoes has just paid back their subsidy) - I do hope the corp subsidies are being looked at very closely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Chuchok View Post
    However, most of the produces that I know are just normal hard working people trying to get ahead.
    I know, I was generalising . . . I just hate seeing salmona (which is raised alllover the place here) and cherries and other products cheaper in Malaysia than they are here - salmon ffs at over $40/kg . . . and the list goes on. And pulling in the subsidies from the government
    Paua, crayfish etc... being chucked back into the sea because the fishing companies saw their orders from China dry up.

    Thousands of examples, this ain't the place it used to be. (According to my wife, but she was raised in Christchurch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Chuchok View Post
    If you want real bad, then go no further than Air NZ
    Oh yea . . . let's talk about the bastards

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Chuchok View Post
    Now these guys are manipulating our market and fucking up the supply chain, but that's another story...
    Agreed.

    Thanks for engaging. You're quite right, of course, that there are many hard-working and sensible agri people here
    Last edited by panama hat; 17-10-2020 at 04:58 AM.

  18. #93
    last farang standing
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    The thread seems to have wandered off (not unusual). I dont know anything about the NZ market but it sounds as if it might make an interesting separate thread.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    The thread seems to have wandered off (not unusual). I dont know anything about the NZ market but it sounds as if it might make an interesting separate thread.
    Sorry, you're right. At least it didn't go off on the usual shitfest.

    However, Australia and Australian producers aren't that far off their Kiwi neighbours, which was why I went on the tangent.

  20. #95
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    because the fishing companies saw their orders from China dry up.
    Due to what reason? Not the generally proven and illegal "regime national security" joke, as utilized by many western regimes.

    They had signed multi year contracts or just offering for sale as they had product available to sell on the daily market?

    The Chinese owned fruit farms, were they affected or had they signed multi year delivery/quality/timely contracts with more than one buyer? You know as prudent companies do. Not relying on a single buyer or market for their sales.

    No knowledge of Fruit growing economics prior to moving to Thailand.

    I have seen a number of "selling perishable fruit" options.

    1. Sell at roadside buyers. Mostly by farmers with no trucks or small amounts.
    2. Sell to "harvest and buy" gangs.
    3. Sell to local large wholesale markets where a large number gather at local location during normal market seasons.
    4. Sell to national and international buyers. Requires product quality control, proven ability, possibly contracted volumes, set market timing etc. Provides base economic data when considering expansion/investment in new expansion planes. Relative to all industries worldwide. Including both OZ and NZ national and foreign owned/located multi national companies.

    All the above allow multiple producers access, back garden to 100's Rai farms, Canadian prarie Wheat to niche pâté de foie gras ..... , to the market. Actual prices vary on a daily/hourl/second basis for the first three. Buyers quality decision is with the buyer, grade A higher than Grade B.

    The 4th allows both parties some economic protection and any shortfalls can be remedied from the hourly spot market.

    As an advisor to companies considering investment I would have assumed you had knowledge of thees types of pitfalls. Rather than your unsubstantiated, directed, tabloid, propaganda.
    Last edited by OhOh; 17-10-2020 at 09:17 AM.

  21. #96
    Thailand Expat Backspin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    The latest is that the chinese have told their mills not to buy cotton from Australia.
    It was the USA who got the whole western world to fully embrace Communist China for 30 years. Now that "the market" didn't turn China into a universal suffrage democracy who would buy F-16's, they are instructing their lapdogs to withdraw from China.

    The punchline is, both the USA and Australia have China as their biggest trade partner. Their economies are cogs in the China machine.

  22. #97
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    An article, on the thread topic, from an Australian-based former Barrister at Law.

    As the photo suggests there have been very expensive investments made by OZ and international companies, in the mining and the associated infrastructure, which may not be as valuable without the previous China demand.

    Australia Faces Challenging Times Caused by Deteriorating Relations with China


    16.10.2020 Author: James ONeill


    Australia V China-coal34232-png

    "
    A recent article published in Russia Today on 13 October 2020 by Tom Fowdy raised some very important issues affecting Australia’s economic well-being. That economic position is rapidly deteriorating as the country’s crucial economic relationship with China disintegrates at an accelerating rate. Australia’s export structure has had several distinctive features over the 250 or so years since it was first colonised by the British in the late 18th century.

    Its initial role was to serve as a penal colony for people from Britain who had committed crimes, but not severe enough to warrant execution. The rights of Australia’s indigenous population who had inhabited the country for more than 100,000 years did not enter the equation. Indeed, they were not officially regarded even as human beings, that status only being assigned in the 1960s. Before then the aboriginal people had the same legal status as flora and fauna.

    The defeat of the British in Singapore by the Japanese army in 1941 lead to the beginning of a move from reliance on the British for the country’s security to reliance upon the Americans. The latter’s troops arrived in 1942 and they have been there ever since.

    Australia’s trading patterns showed a similar reliance upon the British until the latter’s joining the European Common Market on 1 January 1973 forced a reappraisal of that economic relationship. Thereafter, Australia’s trade shifted progressively to its Asian neighbours, a trend that accelerated in every year since the 1970s. Today, Asian nations account for the vast bulk of Australia’s trade with the world.
    China, which accounted in 2019 for more than one third of the total Australian exports, was easily the biggest trading partner, accounting for nearly twice the amount of trade than that with Japan, the second most important trading partner.

    Despite its geography, being a landmass immediately South of its major trading partners, the Australian political psyche has remained firmly fixed to the Anglo-United States worldview. Since the end of World War II in 1945, Australia has joined the United States in at least four major military conflicts; Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq, that are not only geographically remote from Australia, but also involved no discernible vital Australian strategic interest.
    The fact that all four wars were based on false justifications did nothing to enhance their legitimacy. The Korean War was manifestly aimed at the overthrow of the then newly installed Communist Party in China. This was readily discernible from the actions of the Allied troops that clearly violated the terms of the United Nations Security Council resolution authorising military action (in the absence of Russia and with China’s seat still held by the Nationalists.)

    The lies told about Iraq’s “weapons of mass destruction” or Afghanistan’s alleged role in sheltering the falsely accused Osama bin Laden for his alleged role in the events of 11 September 2001 are too well known to bear repetition here. What is important for present purposes is that the falsehoods and ulterior motives for the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq did not deter Australia from either its initial involvement or its continuing role as an occupying power.
    Australia similarly joined in the United States manufactured war in Vietnam, again for no discernible strategic or military interest to Australia. It was the experience of the 1972 –1975 Whitlam Labor government in Australia in response to that war that cemented the subservience to United States interests.

    Whitlam had removed Australian troops from Vietnam and recognised the PRC as China’s legitimate government. Both moves met with bitter opposition by the Liberal Opposition party. What sealed the Whitlam government’s fate however, was its decision to close the American run spy base at Pine Gap in Australia’s Northern Territory. The Whitlam government was dismissed by the country’s Governor General John Kerr the day before Whitlam was to announce Pine Gap’s closure to the Australian parliament. That the base is still open (one of at least eight United States military bases in Australia) speaks volumes about the geopolitical consequences of the Whitlam dismissal.

    Through these tumultuous years trade with China continued to flourish. China also became the largest source of foreign students, the largest source of foreign tourists, and the third largest source of foreign investment. In 2020 all this changed. Clearly acting as a mouthpiece for the American administration, Australia demanded an “explanation” from China at the beginning of this year for the outbreak of the Corona virus.

    The accusatory tone of the Australian demand was not well received in Beijing. This began a series of economic countermeasures by China. The initially relatively small economic impact of banning wine imports was clearly intended to send a signal.

    That signal fell on deaf ears. Australia’s anti-China rhetoric progressively escalated through 2020. The Chinese response was to increase the banning of Australian imports. The latest (early October 2020) was to ban coal imports from Australia. This is a market worth $US13 billion to the Australian economy. It will not be the last item to be banned or greatly restricted, with iron ore (more than US$100 billion) probably being the next commodity banned, already falling 17% each month since July.
    The Covid crisis has also resulted in an almost complete cessation of Chinese student arrivals (again the largest foreign source) and an industry worth billions of dollars and thousands of jobs to the Australian economy. It would be naïve to expect those numbers to recover in the foreseeable future. The same is true with Chinese tourists, a vanishing species and again unlikely to return to anywhere near previous levels. Again, tens of thousands of jobs are lost.

    The rational response by an Australian government would be to review both its policies and its rhetoric. Not only has the Morrison government shown no such inclination, it is difficult to see how it could feasibly do so without adversely affecting its close and continuing (subservient) relationship with the United States.
    The memory of the fate of the 1975 Whitlam government which dared to pursue policies contrary to United States wishes continues to cast a very long shadow over Australian politics.Fowdy suggests that Australia’s situation “might be described as the most clear and explicit reaction yet of the discomfort in the Anglo-sphere world caused by the rise of China.” I respectfully agree. The solution however, is not to try and maintain the dominance of the Western world as it has been for
    the past 300 years.

    Instead there needs to be a recognition that the Anglo-Saxon dominance was an historical anomaly, and that the old order is resetting itself. In Australia’s case that will require some major mental adjustments.
    The country has flourished in recent decades precisely because of his geography and growing trade and other links with what Australians call “the near North.” What has been manifestly lacking is the political attitudes and conduct that match the geopolitical and trade realities.

    Unfortunately, that adjustment may be a bridge too far for the Australian psyche. It has only itself to blame."


    Australia Faces Challenging Times Caused by Deteriorating Relations with China | New Eastern Outlook

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Due to what reason? Not the generally proven and illegal "regime national security" joke, as utilized by many western regimes
    Why always so defensive, OhOh? Bad conscience? Dried up because Lunar New Year celebrations were curtailed in China due to the virus causing havoc in the country it originated.

    You would do well to stop being both so defensive and 'whataboutist' all the time . . . your retarded brother, Klondyke, has few brain cells to call upon when commenting - but you do.

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    Attachment 58841
    Exports per Continent.

    Attachment 58842
    Exports per Country.

    Graph data from 2019.

    Attachment 58843
    Back to 2010 levels.

    Will Europe, North or South America, all three together jump to fill the OZ growing export hole.

    Which of OZ's commodities do they require?

    Some may be able to print more money as they are doing now, others may not have that option.

    Graph data from 2010 to 2020

    Australia Exports By Country

    Virus or poor political choices?

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    You would do well
    I am doing well thank you. Your unwarranted opinion is not on topic, you have no knowledge of my health, marital, family or financial status.

    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Klondyke, has .....
    You'd do well to stop insulting fellow posters here on TD. It indicates a lack of inclusiveness and your failure to discuss the topic, which is your choice..

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