Thread: Australia V China

Originally Posted by sabang

Or a toerag for the USA.

Just because several policies are similar to another country's doesn't make it a toerag - but that logic seems to escape you

Oh, so Our policy was to invade Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Interesting.

Did, so it was. Logical.

But then you do realise that's a gross over-simplification . . . and Vietnam - clusterfuck everyone should have stayed out of. Why do you think en gros about everything?

Originally Posted by sabang

At least the Chinese do not bomb other people, invade other countries, sponsor bloody conflicts, and constantly plot to overthrow foreign governments by any foul means.

Yea . . . you weren't too far off in your first paragraph but this one above just shows that you're a one-eyed fool

Ah good, now PH is reduced to a buffoonish parody, how easily. Kindly give some examples, in the current century, of:-

1. Foreign countries that china has invaded
2. Foreign countries that china has bombed
3. Foreign governments that china has tried to topple illegally- eg via coup, revolution, or invasion
4. Foreign countries that have been asked by china to join their military in invading other &/or bombing other countries
5. Bonus points for a quantitative comparison of the number of human beings killed by chinese vs american miltary action, either direct or sponsored
6. Further bonus points for a quantitative comparison on the number of humans murdered by australian military forces at the behest of china vs america

Over to you einstein.

Chinkies just do it in a sneaky way.

I wonder how many lives were lost and screwed up in Tibet ? I'd say that every Tibetan there has been negatively impacted.

I'd say that every Tibetan there has been negatively impacted.

Then you would be wrong actually. China has been throwing money at the place, indeed a high speed rail line was opened a couple of years ago. Several Tibetans are doing very well thank you, and have no wish to secede or gain more autonomy from China. Even the Dalai Lama has ceased calling for Tibetan independence- rather more autonomy within the PRC. Others no doubt are ardently opposed to Chinese rule. The poorest Tibetans are to be found in the Mustang region of Nepal, not Tibet SAR. Things are never as black and white as is painted to you by propaganda.

The high speed rail line is probably to bring in masses of Han Chinese tourists. Indeed, why else, apart from one-way travel by Han Chinese being brought in to populate the place and skew the population ratio in their favour. ?

The Dalai Lama has been slowly worn down and is being less vocal about independence as it riles the Chinese too much. Autonomy is more realistic.

Originally Posted by sabang

Several Tibetans are doing very well thank you

And there we have it, sabang's justification for cultural genocide is that "several Tibetans are doing very well".

I think the Vichy did very well for a while, too.

1966 – Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution reaches Tibet and results in the destruction of a large number of monasteries and cultural artefacts. A sociopolitical movement set into motion by Mao Zedong, the Cultural Revolution’s stated goal was to preserve communist ideology in the country by purging remnants of capitalist and traditional elements and to re-impose Maoist thought as the dominant ideology. The movement paralysed China politically and negatively affected the country’s economy and society to a significant degree. This “most severe setback and the heaviest losses suffered by the Party, the country, and the people since the founding of the People’s Republic” particularly affected Tibet, where resentment against the Chinese remained high. The years of the Cultural Revolution inflict heavy casualties on Tibet. During these 10 years, 1.2 million Tibetans are worked, starved or beaten to death. Parents were forced to bury their children alive for any act of disobedience, dissidents were doused in excrement and urine and set alight or had their nose or an ear cut off. The Cultural Revolution was one of the bloodiest chapters in world history, let alone Chinese history, and cemented a bloodstained divide between the Tibetan people and the Chinese.

What Is The Conflict Between Tibet & China? Know About It

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

During these 10 years, 1.2 million Tibetans are worked, starved or beaten to death. Parents were forced to bury their children alive for any act of disobedience, dissidents were doused in excrement and urine and set alight or had their nose or an ear cut off.

Luckily, according to sabang, some lived well.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Luckily, according to sabang, some lived well.

Several in fact. Puts that paltry genocide into perspective, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

1966 – Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution reaches Tibet and results in the destruction of a large number of monasteries and cultural artefacts.

This article is more than 12 years old
(nowadays, The Guardian would hardly issue it - but it does not change anything on the facts)

What we don't hear about Tibet
Sorrel Neuss

While the world moralises over China's occupation, feudalism and abuse in Tibetan culture has been conveniently forgotten
Wed 11 Feb 2009 22.00 GMT

Sexual abuse in monasteries and oppressive feudalism in traditional Tibetan society has been factored out of the argument against China's occupation, oversimplifying it.

Han Chinese guards deliberately obstruct the pilgrim route through Lhasa to the holy Jokhang temple by sipping tea at strategically placed tables in the middle of the road. In front of the Potala, the Dalai Lama's former seat of power, an imposing guarded concrete square glorifies China's occupation.

Tibet seems like as a celestial paradise held in chains, but the west's tendency to romanticise the country's Buddhist culture has distorted our view. Popular belief is that under the Dalai Lama, Tibetans lived contentedly in a spiritual non-violent culture, uncorrupted by lust or greed: but in reality society was far more brutal than that vision.

Last December, Ye Xiaowen, head of China's administration for religious affairs, published a piece in the state-run China Daily newspaper that, although propaganda, rings true. "History clearly reveals that the old Tibet was not the Shangri-La that many imagine", he wrote "but a society under a system of feudal serfdom."

Until 1959, when China cracked down on Tibetan rebels and the Dalai Lama fled to northern India, around 98% of the population was enslaved in serfdom. Drepung monastery, on the outskirts of Lhasa, was one of the world's largest landowners with 185 manors, 25,000 serfs, 300 pastures, and 16,000 herdsmen. High-ranking lamas and secular landowners imposed crippling taxes, forced boys into monastic slavery and pilfered most of the country's wealth – torturing disobedient serfs by gouging out their eyes or severing their hamstrings.

Tashi Tsering, now an English professor at Lhasa University is representative of Tibetans that do not see China's occupation as worse tyranny. He was taken from his family near Drepung at 13 and forced into the Dalai Lama's personal dance troupe. Beaten by his teachers, Tsering put up with rape by a well-connected monk in exchange for protection. In his autobiography, The Struggle for Modern Tibet, Tsering writes that China brought long-awaited hope when is laid claim to Tibet in 1950.

After studying at the University of Washington, Tsering returned to Chinese-occupied Tibet in 1964, convinced that the country could modernise effectively by cooperating with the Chinese. Denounced during the Cultural Revolution, arrested in 1967 to spend six years in prison and labour camps, he still maintains that Mao Tse-Tung liberated his people.

Caught between a system reminiscent of medieval Europe and a colonial force that brought forced collectivisation and similar human rights abuses, Tibet moved from one oppressive regime to another.

During the 1990s, Tibetans suspected of harbouring nationalist tendencies were arrested and imprisoned and in 2006, Romanian climbers witnessed Chinese guards shooting a group of refugees headed for the Nepalese border. China's abhorrent treatment of "political subversives" has rightly spurned a global Free Tibet movement, diminishing the benefits that it did bring to society.

After 1959, it abolished slavery, serfdom and unfair taxes. Creating thousands of jobs through new infrastructure projects, it built Tibet's first hospitals and opened schools in every major village, bringing education to the masses. Clean water was pumped into the main towns and villages and the average life expectancy has almost doubled since 1950, to 60.

Even so, in 2001 the Dalai Lama said: "Tibet, materially, is very, very backward. Spiritually it is quite rich. But spirituality can't fill our stomachs."

Freedom for Tibet is not simply a case of liberation from China and the reinstatement of traditional values. Around 70 per cent of the population lives below the poverty line and enhanced spirituality alone will not improve economic conditions. Poverty is not quaint no matter how colourful the culture and the Tibet question is one that should be addressed from a rational, rather than an idealised viewpoint.

Nearby Bhutan, which has a similar Buddhist culture that it tried to preserve by banning television until 1999 and limiting foreign visitors, only held its first democratic elections in 2007. The Dalai Lama now promotes democracy, but Tibet may well have looked worse than it does today if the old order had been left to its own devices.

There are many readings about Tibet issue, (unless we rather reduce our thinking as told us per our Master of Demagogy)

e.g.
Human Rights in Tibet before 1959 by Robert Barnett

Tibet serf debate shadows China'''s "emancipation day" | Reuters

Originally Posted by Klondyke

There are many readings about Tibet issue

Yes, and they all point to China committing genocide - so fuck off

Some genocide:-


Ethnic Tibetans make up over 90% of the population. Over 78% of the total population follows the religion of Tibetan Buddhism. Other religions observed in the region include Bon, Chinese folk religions, Islam and Christianity.

For many years, agriculture was the primary economy. While agriculture and animal husbandry are still the top industries, other jobs including driving taxis and working in hotels have helped to contribute to the economy. Tourism is also a growing industry. An interesting fact about Tibet is that foreign tourists were not allowed to visit the region until the 1980s. Even though foreigners are now allowed to visit the region, a Tibet Entry Permit is required. There are many popular tourist destinations in Tibet, including Potala Palace, Namtso Lake, and Mount Everest.

Tibet has seen its population grow significantly in recent years. The population prior to the 1950s had already reached one million. This number had more than doubled by the 1990s. Since the early 1980s, the percentage of population growth has been in the double digits every ten years. In 2010, the population grew by over 14% since 2010 to surpass 3 million. Based on these trends, it can only be expected that Tibet’s population will continue to rise until it hits its next milestone.

Tibet Population 2021 (worldpopulationreview.com)

Interesting . . . and the authors received all this information about Tibet from . . . the Communist Party.

Go for it, sabang . . .

Until 1959, when China cracked down on Tibetan rebels and the Dalai Lama fled to northern India, around 98% of the population was enslaved in serfdom

Only in 1959 Mao had cracked down on Tibetan slavery, serfdom?

That year in some other countries some have been still more equal than others...

Go for it, sabang . . .

Absolutely- my only commitment is to the Truth. I care not if a few peoples confirmation bias gets hurt in the process, along with a few egos. There is no genocide in Tibet- but repression?