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  1. #226
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    countries are locked in a one-sided trade war,
    . . . interesting turn of phrase.


    So, you don't like Trump's economic bullying . . . I'm guessing you'll condemn China as well now, ignoring signed agreements

  2. #227
    Chinese spy
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    Could you two get a room please?


    Interesting article, by one of Australia's few muckraking journos. ASPI is a hawkish, right wing thinktank- and ASPI articles have been quoted in a lot of the recent China schtick (which has cost Australia billions, and counting). Interesting then to see where it's funding comes from, and how much it has gone up in the last year:-


    Revealed: radical escalation in US war machine funding for Australian Government “think tank” ASPI

    by Marcus Reubenstein | Nov 24, 2020 | Government

    Scott Morrison says Australia’s position has been wrongly interpreted as siding with the US over China. Yet two of the main funders of the Federal Government-owned think-tank ASPI, a constant critic of China, are the US State Department, whose secretary Mike Pompeo has led the charge of global anti-China sentiment, and foreign weapons makers. Marcus Reubenstein investigates.


    The Australia-China relationship has hit new lows, with China’s ban on a range of imports threatening $20 billion of Australian exports. However, just in the past few days Prime Minister Scott Morrison has said Australia’s position has been wrongly interpreted as siding with the United States over China, and that his government would not make a “binary choice” between the superpowers.

    Which makes the funding of the Federal Government-owned think-tank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, a constant critic of China, even more curious. Two of its biggest sources of funding are the US State Department, whose secretary Mike Pompeo has led the charge of global anti-China sentiment, and foreign weapons makers.

    ASPI’s annual report, which has just been tabled in Parliament, shows that funding from the US government skyrocketed by 367% over the past financial year alone – to $1,369,773.22.

    Moreover, the limited disclosure buried on page 157 of the report suggests all the funds were in some way directed to research projects attacking China. The US payments primarily came through the State Department.

    The mother country also tips in

    Other foreign governments made significant contributions, with the bulk of their funding contributing to ASPI programs that were either directly or indirectly linked to reports critical of China. The UK was ASPI’s second biggest foreign benefactor, contributing a total of $455,260. The governments of Japan, Israel, and Netherlands and NATO poured in another $66,072.

    In the 2019-20 financial year, foreign (non-US) government contributions to ASPI were up more than 30 times on the previous year.

    Weapons makers front and centre

    ASPI’s loyal supporters in the military industrial complex once again stepped up. Lockheed Martin, a continuous sponsor since 2004, provided $25,000, while its US counterpart Northrop Grumman paid $67,500.
    The French did their part sending over $63,300 from Thales and Naval Group.


    Thales was awarded the contract to supply the Australian Army with Hawkei off-road light military vehicles in circumstances seriously questioned by the Australian National Audit Office. Completely ignoring that controversy, in September ASPI produced a report praising the Hawkei’s capabilities.

    Former Defence Minister Dr Brendan Nelson, a paid advisor to the Thales Group from 2015 until December 2019, was appointed to the ASPI Council earlier this year.
    Majority French-government owned Naval Group won the contract for Australia’s controversial $80 billion future submarine project.


    In February 2016, ASPI’s executive director Peter Jennings wrote a glowing opinion piece on the Naval Group submarines under the headline “Vive Australia’s choice of a French submarine”.

    Two months earlier the French government bestowed France’s highest national decoration, the National Order of Légion d’Honneur, on Jennings.

    Full Article- Revealed: radical escalation in US war machine funding for Australian Government "think tank" ASPI - Michael West





  3. #228
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Could you two get a room please?


    Interesting article, by one of Australia's few muckraking journos.
    You're partially right on the muck, although it seems this particular hack's modus operandus is throwing shit at walls in the hope that some of it will stick.

    So why do you think anyone will take it seriously?

    2020: Michael West Media article misleading - University of Wollongong – UOW

  4. #229
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    In this case, all he has done is check ASPI's funding sources as published in their Annual report- which was released late, deliberately or not.
    So sure, it will be taken seriously because it is verifiable. What the implications are however, is more a matter for debate.

  5. #230
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    In this case, all he has done is check ASPI's funding sources as published in their Annual report- which was released late, deliberately or not.
    So sure, it will be taken seriously because it is verifiable. What the implications are however, is more a matter for debate.
    Yeah, I get the gist of it. Because it criticises the chinkies, it must be bad.


  6. #231
    Lone Monarchist
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    Shots Fired: China Slaps "Distressing" Tariffs Up To 212% On Australian Wine



    by Tyler Durden
    Fri, 11/27/2020 - 20:30






    China has drastically ramped up its trade conflict with Australia, on Friday slapping a whopping 200% tax on all Australian wine, in a move being widely described as the first shot fired in what went from behind-the-scenes bureaucratic punitive actions to now an open trade war.


    "The Ministry of Commerce imposed import taxes of up to 212.1%, effective Saturday, which Australia’s trade minister said make Australian wine unsellable in China, his country’s biggest export market," the AP reports. The lead industry body Wine Australia, said the country's total shipments to China in the first nine months of 2020 accounted for 39% of all Australian wines.


    Australia has been among those countries, foremost among them the United States under Trump, leading the charge of criticism aimed at Beijing over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic, lately calling for a formal international probe into the deadly virus' origins there.
    China is the top market for Australian wine exports, via Reuters. "This is a very distressing time for many hundreds of Australian wine producers, who have built, in good faith, a sound market in China," Australia trade minister Simon Birmingham responded on Friday.
    The growing tensions between the two trade partners has also included tit-for-tat travel restrictions and in a couple notable cases the detention of journalists with dual nationality by Chinese security services. This amid China taking measures early this month to block a wide array of key Australian exports from lobsters to coal.
    But as one analyst cited by AP has observed of what's increasingly obvious, Australia has become a "one-trick pony export-wise to China" and thus Beijing holds all the cards, with Canberra scrambling to play on the defensive while China extracts political concessions by threatening to torpedo Australia's commodities exports.
    China's Ministry of Commerce justified the wine tariffs as a necessary response after rampant complaints that Chinese producers were hurt by improperly low-priced Australian imports.

    Of all the Australian wines hit w/ huge Chinese tariffs today, one - Auswan - was singled out for the softest tariff of 107%. Much lower than all the others. It just happens to be the label of former ambassador Geoff Raby, a consistent critic of Aus gov’t’s handling of China ties pic.twitter.com/nAJNV0ZZ9w
    — Bill Birtles (@billbirtles) November 27, 2020

    Prime Minister Scott Morrison has lately slammed Beijing practicing blatant "economic coercion" with regard to an increasing array of its exports being held up at port for what are seen as contrived inspections procedures, which sometimes end in large shipments going bad, such as lobster.
    Beijing has also recently began taking aim at Australia's tourism industry by discouraging tourists and students from visiting the country.
    Via Trading Economics: Australia exports to China was US$103 Billion during 2019, according to the United Nations COMTRADE database on international trade.

    On news of this latest 200% wine tax Australia's main stock market index fell by 0.5%. China's foreign ministry was quick to capitalize by demanding Australia "do something conductive" to change course and improve relations but without diving into details:


    "Some people in Australia adhering to the Cold War mentality and ideological prejudice have repeatedly taken wrong words and deeds on issues concerning China’s core interests," said the spokesman, Zhao Lijian.
    Australia should "take China’s concerns seriously, instead of harming China’s national interests under the banner of safeguarding their own national interests," Zhao said.
    Further fueling China's dramatic actions is Australia's impending mutual defense treaty with Japan which is still being deeply negotiated.
    Japan is of course a prime strategic rival to China heavily involved in pressing anti-China rhetoric on its expansion of militarized artificial islands in the South China Sea.

  7. #232
    Lone Monarchist
    Backspin's Avatar
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    ^
    Some people in Australia adhering to the Cold War mentality and ideological prejudice have repeatedly taken wrong words and deeds on issues concerning China’s core interests," said the spokesman, Zhao Lijian.

    Australia should "take China’s concerns seriously, instead of harming China’s national interests under the banner of safeguarding their own national interests," Zhao said
    How can people charge China with coercive trade practices when Australia is being openly ideological and prejudiced to it ? China can trade with who it wants. The 200% tariff is just the cost of this policy.

  8. #233
    Thailand Expat
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    Do you think you could learn to use the quote function? Do you know what a quote is? Adding to your list of idiocy.

  9. #234
    Thailand Expat Latindancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    ^

    China can trade with who it wants.
    However, innocent people and businesses suffer.


    "This is a very distressing time for many hundreds of Australian wine producers, who have built, in good faith, a sound market in China," Australia trade minister Simon Birmingham responded on Friday.

  10. #235
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    How can people charge China with coercive trade practices when Australia is being openly ideological and prejudiced to it
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    China can trade with who it wants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    The 200% tariff is just the cost of this policy

    We all know how dense you are . . . ever heard of contracts? Agreements?

    That's a rhetorical question.

  11. #236
    Your local I.Q. Monitor
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    How could any country feel confident about future contracts and agreements with China when they lie and cheat their way out as soon as they have a disagreement. This (hopefully) will come back and bite China in the long run.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    We all know how dense you are . . . ever heard of contracts? Agreements?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    How could any country feel confident about future contracts and agreements with China when they lie and cheat their way out as soon as they have a disagreement. This (hopefully) will come back and bite China in the long run.
    Grants, Agreements?

    Care to post a sample or two of the ones being broken by China?

    This may of course have some bearing on the taxpayer's subsidies Australian wine growers are able to access from the Australian

    Australia V China-grant-png agency.


    Current Grant Opportunity View - GO4221


    Wine Export Grant


    "Description:Wine Australia is inviting small and medium Australian wine businesses to apply for the Wine Export Grants program, as part of the Australian Government’s $50 million Export and Regional Wine Support Package (the $50m Package).

    Wine Export Grants are offered for specific wine export promotion activities aimed at supporting small and medium wine businesses to secure new distribution channels in export markets.
    Eligible wine businesses can claim a reimbursement grant of up to AU$25,000 for 50 per cent of total eligible expenses incurred on or after 1 July 2020. There is $1 million allocated to the grant program and applications will close on 1 May 2021, or on the expiration of funds, whichever comes first.

    If you are a wine producer in Australia, you may apply for a Wine Export Grant if you:

    • had an aggregated turnover of less than AU$20 million, including an export turnover of less than AU$5 million, during the financial year immediately preceding your application, and
    • promote your Australian wine product for export; this includes the export promotion activities being applied for through this grant.

    Once a wine producer has received advice that their application was successful, no further applications for this grant will be accepted from that producer or any associated producers.

    Eligibility: If you are a wine producer in Australia, you may apply for a Wine Export Grant if you:

    • had an aggregated turnover of less than AU$20 million, including an export turnover of less than AU$5 million, during the financial year immediately preceding your application, and
    • promote your Australian wine product for export; this includes the export promotion activities being applied for through this grant.

    Once a wine producer has received advice that their application was successful, no further applications for this grant will be accepted from that producer or any associated producers.

    Total Amount Available (AUD): $1,000,000.00

    Estimated Grant Value (AUD): From $1.00 to $25,000.00"

    Current Grant Opportunity View - GO4221: GrantConnect


    As are the well documented "sanctions", the SOP of western governments and their vassals.

    Australia V China-i-see-whats-good-goose-aint
    Last edited by OhOh; 28-11-2020 at 01:06 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  13. #238
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Care to post a sample or two of the ones being broken by China?
    Seeing as you're as thick as Skidmark, I'll explain it again - China's actions breach WTO guidelines.

    Is that easy enough for you to understand?

  14. #239
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    China's actions breach WTO guidelines
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Care to post a sample or two of the ones being broken by China?
    With, in this instance, WTO links. So we may educate ourselves with the facts, rather than your allegations.

    Has the Australian government requested the WTO to arbitrate on your alleged breaches?

    As of 16 November 2020 there are no mentions of WTO involvement in the Australian media. Threats but no official request. I've not checked all of the media reports.

    Fears China has cut off imports of Australian wine amid worsening trade war

    https://www.xxx.xxx.xx/news/2020-11-...spute/12887568

    China doubles down on Australian wine dispute


    • September 1st, 2020


    "Minister Birmingham added that the Australian Government is working hard to have government-to-government discussions with the Chinese Government."

    China doubles down on Australian wine dispute - Winetitles


    'We'll vigorously defend': Australia ready to fight China over wine dispute

    By Jennifer Duke

    August 23, 2020 — 12.10pm

    "The federal government is prepared to fight Beijing at the World Trade Organisation after the Chinese Ministry of Commerce launched an anti-dumping investigation into Australian wine.

    Minister for Agriculture David Littleproud said on ABC Insiders on Sunday morning the government was willing to challenge any allegations local winemakers dumped bottles under two litres into China at reduced prices.

    "We'll vigorously defend that and if required, we'll go through the process and go to the WTO. We have form for that," he said."

    '''We'''ll vigorously defend''': Australia ready to fight China over wine dispute



  15. #240
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Top reading tip for our Australian members:

    Australia V China-untitled-jpg

  16. #241
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    ^ Not so silent . . . even here in NZ they threaten Uni profs, politicians, journos . . . utter scum of the earth, and we have one right here

  17. #242
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ...so, what is the lesson to be learned here by Australia's neighbors? Don't let an expansionist, domineering and highly sensitive trading partner achieve a dominant position in one's economy...are they paying attention? If so, I hope they understand this huffery is more than a trade dispute...China has used such tactics to bring Korea and Japan into line...the Europeans, one by one, will moderate their criticism and bow to China's market strength rather than endanger exports. Is China the only player drawing red lines here?
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  18. #243
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...China has used such tactics to bring Korea and Japan into line...

    How's that then?

  19. #244
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    How's that then?
    ...to punish Korean company Lotte
    (China ends sanctions on Lotte two years after South Korean retailer cedes land to US missile defences | South China Morning Post)

    ...and rare earth mineral exports to Japan... Amid Tension, China Blocks Vital Exports to Japan - The New York Times

  20. #245
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    And how has that "brought them into line"?

    As far as I can see, Lotte considered pulling out of China and....

    China lifted its economic sanctions on South Korean retailer Lotte last month, more than two years after the company angered Beijing by yielding land for the deployment of a US anti-missile defence system in South Korea.
    And as for Japan:

    TOKYO -- The Japanese government will cooperate with the U.S. and Australia on investing in processing facilities for rare-earth metals, looking to ease reliance on imports from China.
    Japan to pour investment into non-China rare-earth projects -
    Nikkei Asia



    So please explain how this has "brought them into line"....

  21. #246
    Thailand Expat
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Is China the only player drawing red lines here?
    SOP for centuries. Big guns, mandated reserve currency, IMF, trade, kidnapping citizens of foreign countries illegally, banning countries companies from selling goods ......

    The seats around the tables are being reshuffled, a new Uncle is on the block who has arrived to play a new game of cards. Aided and abetted for commercial gain for decades by political decisions made by shortsighted western governments.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    cedes land to US missile defences | South China Morning Post)
    National security, shades of Cuban crisis, but without military threats of war.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Amid Tension, China Blocks Vital Exports to Japan - The New York Times
    From your link.

    "Sharply raising the stakes in a dispute over Japan’s detention of a Chinese fishing trawler captain, the Chinese government has blocked exports to Japan of a crucial category of minerals used in products like hybrid cars, wind turbines and guided missiles.

    Acts of piracy are against international law.

    "will only emphasize the need for geographic diversity of supply,”

    Failure to diversify ones suppliers of critical imports does leave one exposed.Easy enough but possibly more expensive/polluting solutions have always been available.As 'arry has posted.

  22. #247
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    Great piece of media for the misinformed masses, 'arry will quote the headlines as facts and pHart will back him up:

    The media outlet's video of the "interview" here:
    Birmingham says Australia prepared to take China to WTO over tariffs

    Birmingham says Australia prepared to take China to WTO over tariffs - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    The media outlet's text here:
    Australia prepares to escalate action against China to World Trade Organization over barley tariffs

    https://www.xxx.xxx.xx/news/2020-11-...riffs/12932240

    The "here today, gone tomorrow" politician, being interviewed is desperately trying not to say anything that can't be "misinterpreted", or considered by others as "escalation". He does use the tried and tested proviso, "in the Australian National Interests", while the interviewer keeps pressing for answers to his inflammatory questions.

    Australian fabrication at it's best or politicians being "economic with the truth". Australians do have previous.

    I wonder when the Australian politician will consider that China is possibly acting in it's own "National Interests" and what his excuse will be then.

    Hilarious.

    Apologies if the links don't work, it appears that Australia is selective as to who can read/watch their premiere news outlet, but your search engine will find the headline text.
    Last edited by OhOh; 29-11-2020 at 10:50 PM.

  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    The "here today, gone tomorrow" politician, being interviewed
    ...as in democratically elected?


    China puts tariffs of up to 200 per cent on Australian wine

    The Chinese Government has announced it will place tariffs on all Australian wine imports from Saturday, striking a blow to the $1.2 billion-a-year industry.
    Key points:

    The new tariffs will range from 107 to 200 per cent
    They come after China's Commerce Ministry instructed importers to suspend orders of Australian wine
    The action follows months of trade uncertainty and souring relations between Australia and China


    Australia V China-12858638-3x2-xlarge-jpg


    It follows the preliminary findings of a Chinese anti-dumping investigation into Australia's wine exports that found that dumping exists and causes Chinese winemakers "substantial harm".

    China has accused Australian producers of selling wine for below the cost of production.

    The investigation is not due to finish until next year, but China's Commerce Ministry announced that from November 28, importers of Australian wine entering China will need to pay temporary "anti-dumping security deposits".

    The deposits, which effectively work like tariffs, will range from between 107 per cent to more than 200 per cent.

    The move comes after China's Commerce Ministry gave informal instructions to importers to suspend orders of wine and six other types of Australian exports earlier this month.
    Have we hit peak China?
    A windmill in the outback in front of clouds lit up red and orange by a sunset.

    As trade and political tensions simmer, speculation swirls about what's really going on between the two nations — and what's next on a Chinese sanctions "hit list".
    Read more

    Shares in Treasury Wine Estates, one of Australia's largest exporters, plunged 11 per cent on Friday morning as the news was being confirmed.

    The company initially paused trading and then confirmed it will be in a halt until Tuesday.

    Tony Battaglene from Australian Grape and Wine said the tariffs would make it incredibly difficult for Australian wine exporters.

    "The China market is a big market for us, but also some of our major competitors, particularly from Europe, are [now] given a tariff advantage of 100-200 per cent [which] is going to make it very difficult to compete … it won't be good," he said.

    Trade Minister Simon Birmingham said the tariffs delivered a "devastating blow" to the wine industry.

    "It will render unviable for many businesses their wine trade with China and clearly we think it's unjustified, without evidence to back it up," he said.

    "It's a tax on Chinese consumers, essentially, but by taxing the product at such enormous, impactful levels, it will likely see consumers turn away from that, and that is what has the devastating impact on Australian producers.

    "That's why we think it is grossly, grossly unfair, unwarranted, unjustified."

    Two glasses of red wine.
    Wine has joined other Australian export products in attracting Chinese tariffs.(Pixabay)
    'Very little product is going in'

    Mr Battaglene said there were hundreds of shipping containers of Australian wine building up at ports across China since an unofficial ban on imports came into effect earlier this month.

    It is understood the wine delayed at customs will now be subject to the tariffs.

    "Very little product is going in," he said.

    "We had a reduction in export approvals of 80 to 90 per cent.

    "What has gone in is sitting basically in customs, trying to go through increased testing and compliance procedures."

    He said the industry was unaware of any wine that had cleared China's customs since the ban, and subsequently large numbers of wine exporters had withheld from shipping wine from Australia.

    "I can't remember a year like this. This is the biggest single challenge we have ever faced in such an important market for us," Mr Battaglene said.

    "We need to be able get through this and work with both the Australian and Chinese Government to resolve this."

    Agriculture Minister David Littleproud said the Australian Government was in contact with Chinese authorities.

    "We're trying to get an appreciation of the reasoning behind the determination in introducing these tariffs," he said.

    "That's why we're moving quickly to work with the industry and my officials and DFAT officials in Beijing to get an understanding so we can put our case around this decision … that we feel is quite outrageous and, to be honest, disproportionate to any reason that anyone has put to us subsequently."

    Shadow Trade Minister Madeleine King said she was "deeply concerned" about the tariffs.

    "Labor understands the relationship with China is increasingly complex," she said.

    "It is a relationship that must be managed in the national interest and not for partisan political interests."

    The announcement of a wine tariff comes amid souring trading relations that have seen China impose import tariffs on Australian barley.

    https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-11-27/china-puts-tariffs-on-australian-wine-trade-tensions/12886700

  24. #249
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Whenever they do this, the World should slap double the tariff on one of their products to dampen sales.

    They'll get the message soon enough.

  25. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    as in democratically elected?
    As in undemocratically appointed ministers, installed in their position by the Prime Minister, in the UK government system and equally undemocratically dismissed on a whim. As in many other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    It follows the preliminary findings of a Chinese anti-dumping investigation into Australia's wine exports that found that dumping exists and causes Chinese winemakers "substantial harm".
    Dumping is a known WTO offense. Boeing and Airbus have been at it for years and payed substantial penalties - billions of Euros/dollars.

    Takes a few years though, as an unexceptional country will not allow enough WTO adjudicators to be employed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    China's Commerce Ministry announced that from November 28, importers of Australian wine entering China will need to pay temporary "anti-dumping security deposits"
    Which the importers of course they will use as the reason to stop accepting the wine, until they receive the "deposits" in their bank accounts. Should the Chinese importers subsidise the Australian exporters, as well as Australian winemakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    an unofficial ban on imports came into effect earlier this month.
    Less than a month it seems. Have the exporter paid the "deposits" yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    Agriculture Minister David Littleproud said the Australian Government was in contact with Chinese authorities
    As illustrated in the ABC post above the Australian Government needs to decide whether they act in the "Australian National Interests" or the "National Interests" of an unexceptional country across the Pacific.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looper View Post
    souring trading relations
    As alleged by the ABC interviewer, but not the responsible Australian Government Minister, at least in the video of the topic by ABC.

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