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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    China is pretty much set in concrete now to become the worlds largest power. It probably won't even need to overtake the US militarily before it achieves this. That is the main crime of the CPC.
    Yes, it seems so, that's the reality. However, they do not need to show off they superiority and an "overtaking". Why they should be so stupid and repeat nonsenses of others?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Yes, it seems so, that's the reality. However, they do not need to show off they superiority and an "overtaking". Why they should be so stupid and repeat nonsenses of others?
    Because they are supremely arrogant.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    They can survive without the rest of the world, but not vice versa.
    The rest of the world can't survive without China ?

    If we have to, I guess we could

    Easy

  4. #29
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    China is pretty much set in concrete now to become the worlds largest power. It probably won't even need to overtake the US militarily before it achieves this. That is the main crime of the CPC.
    Them commies are obviously better capitalists than we are. Not surprising given China's past economic, scientific and industrial achievements.

    Let's not forget back when us Euro types were scrounging around to simply survive, China was by far the worlds great power. All accomplished via strong handed Imperial leadership.

    They have simply returned to using the same authoritarian Imperial system in recent history to pull themselves out of the devastation brought on by WW2 where Mao emerged in all but name the first Emperor of the new era.

    We westerners may not like it much but must admit it works for China and as Sabang notes will again make China the world's greatest power.

    No sense getting upset about it. Just adapt and deal with it as nations did with all the great Empires of the past.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

  5. #30
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Them commies are obviously better capitalists than we are. Not surprising given China's past economic, scientific and industrial achievements.
    If you call using slave labour and ripping off everyone elses ideas "achievements", then it's hard to argue.

  6. #31
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    China was by far the worlds great power. All accomplished via strong handed Imperial leadership.
    When was this? And by '"strong handed" I presume you mean despotism, extreme poverty and unequal distribution of wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Not surprising given China's past economic, scientific and industrial achievements.
    Over the past 5000 years, as Chinese like to raise . . . and even then it doesn't hold true until the recent industrial - and even then it was at the expense of millions of lives of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. +/- 100 million dead by their own hands. An achievement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    We westerners may not like it much but must admit it works for China
    It works for some, there is still poverty and a massive disparity between rural and urban people. There is no doubt that the communist overlords and their cronies have done well

  7. #32
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Harry n Hat, suggest you both do yourselves a favor. Get familiar with their History. Here's a start.

    "Shang Dynasty, Confucius
    • 1600-1050 B.C.: Shang Dynasty - The earliest ruling dynasty of China to be established in recorded history, the Shang was headed by a tribal chief named Tan. The Shang era is marked by intellectual advances in astronomy and math."
    China: Timeline - HISTORY

    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    And by '"strong handed" I presume you mean despotism, extreme poverty and unequal distribution of wealth
    I do indeed. At risk of what aboutism, so other great do the same in varying degree.

  8. #33
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    I presume you mean despotism, extreme poverty and unequal distribution of wealth
    These days, I wonder which country you're talking about.

    Just to remind y'all that need reminding, when Marco Polo did(n't) reach Peking, China had a GDP over double that of combined Europe.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    These days, I wonder which country you're talking about.

    Just to remind y'all that need reminding, when Marco Polo did(n't) reach Peking, China had a GDP over double that of combined Europe.
    ...in those days, who was measuring GDP...Genghis Khan's Treasury?...

  10. #35
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    Well, it wasn't the CCP.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Well, it wasn't the CCP.
    ...I see you've done your research...

  12. #37
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Here we go. Distribution of wealth. US n China about the same. Ukrainians are best. South Africa needs a bit of work.

    World Bank Names South Africa As The Country With The Greatest Wealth Inequality : Goats and Soda : NPR

  13. #38
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    China’s pangolin black market exposed in bombshell David Attenborough investigation

    China’s pangolin black market exposed in bombshell David Attenborough investigation | World | News | Express.co.uk

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Here we go. Distribution of wealth. US n China about the same. Ukrainians are best. South Africa needs a bit of work.
    It has to be a joke. Ukrainians are the best? The billions brought out from the country?

    That's why the Ukrainians are one of the "best" emigrates in direction both to West and East?

  15. #40
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    That's why the Ukrainians are one of the "best" emigrates in direction both to West and East?
    You bet. My grandparents came from the Ukrain.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    If you call using slave labour and ripping off everyone elses ideas "achievements", then it's hard to argue.
    Have to side with our resident sinophiles on this one, as it boils down to different values and semantics, and ultimately preferred pov. The methods used and the number of people that died to achieve the goal, or perceived or imagined goal are irrelevant to the CPC, since lives are secondary at best to the role of every citizen serving the Party. Fex, looking at it from their pov, far from being one of the greatest mass murderers n history, Mao was beyond reproach; makes it easier to see the glaring difference in pov, and that's what's scary.

    This is why as Norton and others say the conditions are right for China, which is no accident, and in time with more glorious works yet to be achieved they're well on the way to becoming the world's greatest economic, then political, and probably only then military power.

    That's as long as the CPC survives to perform more good deeds for their people, though the alternative to that may be cause for celebration to some that cannot see it's likely consequences.

  17. #42
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Harry n Hat, suggest you both do yourselves a favor. Get familiar with their History. Here's a start.
    Have, thanks, and am quite well versed in it, plus living and working there tells me the situation as it is now - as for what it was like 5000 years ago, 3000, 2000, 1000, 500 etc... comparatives are inane.

  18. #43
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    It has to be a joke. Ukrainians are the best?
    Blimey, Klondick even hates the countries on the Russian shit list.

    Is there no end to his slavishness?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Have, thanks, and am quite well versed in it, plus living and working there tells me the situation as it is now - as for what it was like 5000 years ago, 3000, 2000, 1000, 500 etc... comparatives are inane.
    Inane? Would you decline comparative achievements of the Aztecs, Egyptians, Romans, Persians and British Empires, purely based on wether they did it nicely or not? Naive in the extreme.
    Many ancient empires or dynasties carried the world forward in terms of development. The human cost was hardly negligible, but many of those achievements stand the test of time.
    A personal dislike for the methods, does not undermine all landmark steps forward. The US spent billions to put man on the moon. Altruism might have spent the money better on relieving world poverty. The achievement stands.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Blimey, Klondick even hates the countries on the Russian shit list.

    Is there no end to his slavishness?
    Whatever you say... Is it in my poor English or in your poor comprehension?

    Anyway, the pitiful Ukraine population is surely the best in the "Greatest Wealth Inequality". I am only afraid that some others contributed to that fact...

    (or WaPo got it wrong?)


    Ukrainian lawmaker releases leaked phone calls of Biden and Poroshenko
    May 20, 2020

    Ukrainian lawmaker who met with Rudolph W. Giuliani late last year released recordings of private phone calls several years ago between Vice President Joe Biden and Petro Poroshenko, then Ukraine’s president, in a new broadside against the presumptive Democratic nominee for U.S. president that has raised questions about foreign interference in the 2020 election.

    Andriy Derkach, an independent member of Ukraine’s parliament who previously aligned with a pro-Russian faction, said at a news conference in Kyiv on Tuesday that he had received the tapes — which consist of edited fragments of phone conversations Biden and Poroshenko had while still in office — from “investigative journalists.” He alleged they were made by Poroshenko.

    Derkach has past links to Russian intelligence. He attended the Dzerzhinsky Higher School of the KGB in Moscow. His father served as a KGB officer for decades before becoming head of independent Ukraine’s intelligence service in the late 1990s. His father was fired from that post amid a scandal over a Ukrainian journalist who was kidnapped and murdered.

    The recordings played at the news conference Tuesday shed relatively little new light on Biden’s actions in Ukraine, which were at the center of President Trump’s impeachment last year. They show that Biden, as he has previously said publicly, linked loan guarantees for Ukraine to the ouster of the country’s prosecutor general in 2015. But Derkach used the new clips to make an array of accusations not proven by the tapes.

    Read more
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...8e1_story.html

  21. #46
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    Torture methods in the People’s Republic of China

    Almost every prisoner in the People’s Republic of China had to or still has to suffer being beaten and kicked. This by far most common form of abuse is especially easy to spot once the prisoner has been released from prison as the victims exhibit widespread bruises and injuries on their bodies. Numerous victims of torture have reported that the beatings and other torture methods stopped a few weeks before they were due to be released from the camps or penitentiaries in order not to leave behind any external signs of the abuse. Beating as well as other torture methods (see below) cause wounds, which in most cases are not given medical care or it is given too late. Inflammations and even greater pain can be the consequence of further abuse.

    Torture methods in the People's Republic of China

  22. #47
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Klondyke will tell us about how much worse the US is in Gitmao, the Brits were in India etc...

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Klondyke will tell us about how much worse the US is in Gitmao, the Brits were in India etc...
    ...actually, Gitmao is a shopping mall in Shenzhen...

  24. #49
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...actually, Gitmao is a shopping mall in Shenzhen...
    Shows you how far US imperialistic tentacles go!

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    US human rights abuses, British colonial misdeeds, Australian treatment of Aborigines . . . and a few articles, highlighted in yellow, on the migratory path of the Canadian Goose (maltreated by Canadians while we're at it) and how China has unvested in several pacific island nations out of the goodness of their heart
    No need to, it's common knowledge to those, as yourself, realise.

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