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  1. #151
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler View Post
    The first step of action is to save cost, which means keeping all our cash instead of giving it all to Westminster.
    Suffice to say one of the many reasons Scotland voted against the last referendum was because they knew the SNP haven't got a fucking clue how to run a country, and it would have been financial suicide.

    In 2020-21, Scotland (including a geographical share of North Sea revenue) raised £62.8 billion in 2020-21, compared to £99.2 billion of public spending for Scotland. Note that in particular spending was higher due to the response to the coronavirus pandemic. Figures for previous years are also available in the latest GERS publication for comparison.

  2. #152
    Isle of discombobulation Joe 90's Avatar
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  3. #153
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    If they want independence they should have it both Scotland and NI. The problem is what will happen to all those Scots and Irish living and working in England as they will no longer be citizens.

  4. #154
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    If they want independence they should have it both Scotland and NI. The problem is what will happen to all those Scots and Irish living and working in England as they will no longer be citizens.
    Work permits, retirement visas, border bounces

  5. #155
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    90 day reports.

    To one overcrowded office in Watford.

  6. #156
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    why wont the English just let Pres Nicola Make Alba Great Again? Anything to shut the whiny jock cvnt Blackford up.

    Why this supreme court ruling presents an opportunity for Scottish nationalists

    At the heart of the debate over independence is a deceptively complex question: who decides? It sounds easy enough, and supporters of independence think the answer is clear: Scotland decides. For the most diehard opponents of independence, there is also a simple response: the UK decides. For those who settle somewhere between these two positions, however, things get more complex. What exactly are Scotland or the UK deciding on, and how?


    In its judgment on Wednesday, the supreme court attempted to bring a little clarity to the debate after months of deliberations and thousands of pages of argument and evidence. The question was not independence itself, but whether the Scottish government has the power to hold a purely “advisory” referendum on independence. The ruling was instigated by the Scottish government’s own lord advocate, who referred the issue to the court in pursuit of a legally watertight means of fulfilling the manifesto promises on which the Scottish parliament’s SNP-Green majority was elected.


    By stressing the advisory status of a referendum, the Scottish government hoped to bypass the big problem that has kept Scottish politics in a constitutional stalemate for almost a decade now. According to the 1998 Scotland Act, which established the Scottish parliament in 1999, the union between Scotland and England is a “reserved” issue, and thus falls under the jurisdiction of the UK parliament. The 2014 independence referendum was legal because the UK government agreed to temporarily devolve the power to hold it, a process enabled by section 30 of the act; since then, successive UK governments have refused to be so co-operative in the face of repeated demands for another section 30 order from the Scottish government.


    The Scottish government’s argument was that a consultative vote would not directly alter the union between Scotland and England, and was therefore not relevant to reserved matters. The UK supreme court disagreed. In the words of its ruling, “a clear outcome” to even an advisory referendum “would possess the authority, in a constitution and political culture founded upon democracy, of a democratic expression of the view of the Scottish electorate”. This would therefore “strengthen or weaken the democratic legitimacy of the union, depending on which view prevailed, and support or undermine the democratic credentials of the independence movement”. Such “important political consequences” therefore made even an advisory referendum meaningfully “relevant” to the reserved matter of the Anglo-Scottish union.

    more https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/24/supreme-court-scottish-nationalists-judgment

  7. #157
    Isle of discombobulation Joe 90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    why wont the English just let Pres Nicola Make Alba Great Again?
    If they gave the whole UK the vote, you can be guaranteed the Scots would get their independence

  8. #158
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    why wont the English just let Pres Nicola Make Alba Great Again?
    Do you need reminding that it's the Scottish that didn't let the Krankie Karen become El Presidente of the independent socialist republic of Scotlandia?

  9. #159
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe 90 View Post
    If they gave the whole UK the vote, you can be guaranteed the Scots would get their independence
    If they could take Liverpool and Manchester as well, they'd get my vote.


  10. #160
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    and Northern Ireland, they are practically the same people

  11. #161
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    I have never understood why so many English act like jilted teenage girls when talking about Scottish Independence.
    Most polls in England seem to have a fairly even split on the subject. Politically Scotland leans to the left, and England leans to the right. Separation would allow each country to have the political parties in power that reflect the views of their population.

  12. #162
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    ^ you misunderstand, i'm all for Scottish Independence and the sooner Labour get in and allow another referendum the better imo.

  13. #163
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carterone View Post
    I have never understood why so many English act like jilted teenage girls when talking about Scottish Independence.
    Not sure how closely you've read this thread.

    'relieved divorcee' applies to more posters than 'jilted teenager' imo.

    Putting aside your lazy misogyny, obvs.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Putting aside your lazy misogyny, obvs.
    Says the creepy retired teacher.




    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    ^ you misunderstand, i'm all for Scottish Independence and the sooner Labour get in and allow another referendum the better imo.
    Maybe you can explain this (on a serious note), Scotland has its own parliament, why does it not have the right to act independently?

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Says the creepy retired teacher.




    Maybe you can explain this (on a serious note), Scotland has its own parliament, why does it not have the right to act independently?
    Because devolution is a gradual process. The SNP now have limited powers to raise taxes and make decisions affecting the Sottish population. Central government retains the control of critical national defense, until such time as Holyrood can prove its competence. Scottish university tuition fees are currently funded by the Scottish parliament, but defense is not.

    So far the SNP has not proved especially worthy in the exercise of these limited powers. Financially, the concept of rights to govern seems to be one responsibility that has eluded them.

    You can if you wish, blame Brexit or covid for the shortfall, but that would be incorrect. The Scottish government is part funded by UK central government using a formula agreed by both parties. The rest comes from devolutionary, limited tax raising powers.

    So far, the SNP has struggled with the responsibility of making the sums add up. In short, the right to govern carries the responsibilitly to do so effectively. Thus far, the Scots have been unable to do that. IMHO.

  16. #166
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    Thans, switch . . . with the required Brexit reference
    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    until such time as Holyrood can prove its competence.
    And who is the arbiter and what parametres do they set?

  17. #167
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Says the creepy retired teacher.
    You really are one pathetic, sniveling little gobshite, aren't you.

  18. #168
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    You really are one pathetic, sniveling little gobshite, aren't you.
    I see sybille's in a good mood this morning.


  19. #169
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Anyone want to make a comment on-topic in a news thread?

    Or shall we all just meander around the forum dropping pointless brainfarts like harriet?


  20. #170
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Anyone want to make a comment on-topic in a news thread?

    Or shall we all just meander around the forum dropping pointless brainfarts like harriet?

    Erm....


    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    You really are one pathetic, sniveling little gobshite, aren't you.
    P.S. You posted your "pointless brainfart" in Speakers. I would try a coffee when you first wake up, it might make you a little less crabby.


  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Anyone want to make a comment on-topic in a news thread?
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    You really are one pathetic, sniveling little gobshite, aren't you.
    Oh dear . . . Sybille has his panties in a twist.


    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Or shall we all just meander around the forum dropping pointless brainfarts like harriet?
    Harry is a beginner in this regard compared to you



    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    I see sybille's in a good mood this morning.
    Seems quite routine for the cranky one.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
    Thans, switch . . . with the required Brexit reference And who is the arbiter and what parametres do they set?
    Eventually it will be decided by the Scottish electorate, but not until central government believes that they are ready for it. Im sure that the legal premise was recently shown to be in the hands of central government. (Westminster). The Scottish first minister might disagree with this, but that's where things stand at the moment.

  23. #173
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Im sure that the legal premise was recently shown to be in the hands of central government. (Westminster). The Scottish first minister might disagree with this, but that's where things stand at the moment.
    UK top court rules against Scottish plans for independence referendum

  24. #174
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    aaaaannnnd she's off again

    Scottish independence: SNP announces plans for new bill on second referendum

    The SNP has announced new plans to introduce a bill to allow Scotland to hold a second vote on independence.


    The party is pushing for the Scottish Parliament to hold its own referendum on independence to “unlock Westminster’s denial of democracy”.


    The new plans will be announced on Wednesday and seek to take over the House of Commons Order Paper on January 10 next year, and present the SNP’s new Scotland Act 1998 (Amendment) Bill.


    This new bill aims to amend Schedule 5 of the Scotland Act 1998, which details what Holyrood can and cannot legislate on, which includes “the Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England” and “the parliament of the United Kingdom”.


    The new plans come almost one month after the Supreme Court ruled the Scottish Parliament cannot hold a second independence referendum without Westminster approval.


    Commenting, SNP Westminster leader Stephen Flynn MP said: “We will use our Opposition Day to put forward the Scotland Act 1998 (Amendment) Bill and seek to take control of Parliament’s order paper to unlock Westminster’s denial of democracy.


    “The mechanism, which will seek to amend the Scotland Act 1998, will allow the Scottish Parliament to legislate for a referendum and reject any attempts by Westminster to impose a roadblock on Scotland’s democratic journey to independence.


    “The people of Scotland have already voted for a referendum and now is the time for one.


    “That is a democratic reality that politicians at Westminster must wake up to.”


    Mr Flynn’s comments come as a new poll suggests Scottish voters back independence over remaining in the UK but signals warnings for the de-facto referendum method.


    The YouGov poll, reported by the Times, of 1,090 voters found 47% would favour independence, while 42% support staying in the union.


    Support for independence has increased by 4% since a previous survey in October, while the No vote fell by three points.


    Mr Flynn added: “Four polls in a row now show majority support for independence, but with both the Tories and Labour joined at the hip in blocking democracy, it cannot be business as usual at Westminster.”


    In response to SNP plans, a UK Government spokesperson said: “People in Scotland want both their governments to be concentrating on the issues that matter most to them – like growing our economy, getting people the help they need with their energy bills, and supporting our NHS.


    “As the Prime Minister has been clear, we will continue to work constructively with the Scottish Government to tackle our shared challenges.”


    Scottish Government ministers have been accused this week of “vanity” independence spending rather than prioritising the cost-of-living crisis in the upcoming budget statement.


    Deputy First Minister John Swinney, who has stepped in as Finance Secretary while Kate Forbes is on maternity leave, will set out the 2023/24 budget on Thursday.


    The Scottish Tories, including the party’s finance and economy spokeswoman Liz Smith have urged the Government to support households and key public services amid rising costs.


    Ms Smith said the SNP is focused on its “independence obsession” and “sitting on money that could help hard-pressed families and businesses now”, adding: “It should immediately divert its vanity spending on a referendum that the courts have ruled out and abandon reckless plans for a costly, centralised National Care Service that everyone else can see is a bad idea.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence-vote-snp-b2244754.html

  25. #175
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    There's a reason Westminster doesn't want to let Scotland go.

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