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  1. #326
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Surely this is not going away and he's going to drag the Tory party down with him.
    Yeah, that is a much better outcome. Let him stay BoJo!

  2. #327
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Apologise and get on with it; if we slaughter leaders for every poor choice we'd be running the country ourselves, and never mind the 'we can do it better' mob it won't be pretty.

  3. #328
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    ^ Not a poor choice but breaking the law, a law that he was instrumental in making.

  4. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Apologise
    He couldn't bring himself to though, could he.

    His utter disdain for the people he is supposed to be serving could not have been made clearer.

    His account of his actions and why he did what he did was riddled with lies.

    For example, who packs their wife and son into a car prior to a long journey and then drives off in a diifferent direction to...check that he can see OK?

    Just ridiculous.

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  6. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    No apology, no resignation and clear breach of lockdown law. Driving to check eyesight is weak and ill- advised.

    Surely this is not going away and he's going to drag the Tory party down with him.
    why would it? I guess the lockdown is triggering people in stupid non-sense and they are looking for an excuse to fight on stupid shit, like this dossier

  7. #332
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Bishops reveal they have received death threats
    after speaking out about Cummings' lockdown trip


    Some of the Church of England’s most senior bishops have reported receiving hate mail and death threats after speaking out about accusations Dominic Cummings broke lockdown rules.

    It comes after the Guardian reported that bishops fired a volley of unprecedented criticism at Boris Johnson over his defence of actions taken by his chief aide, Cummings, who drove 265 miles to Durham during lockdown.

    Bishop of Worcester John Inge revealed that he received an email warning “stay out of politics or we’ll kill you” after he criticised Boris Johnson’s “risible defence” of Cummings on Sunday night.
    UK coronavirus live: minister resigns over Dominic Cummings' lockdown trip | World news | The Guardian

  8. #333
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    from what i'm reading, i don't know if the 'trump playbook' is going to work in the UK.
    it seems there are tory ministers with a spine willing to stand up for what's right.

  9. #334
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Well in the UK the top politician is, of course, not the head of state.

    Trump could never have got away with what he has in that kind of system in any case.

    Also, these tory MPs were sticking the boot into an underling, not BoJo.

  10. #335
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    understood....when i referred to the 'trump playbook', i was referring to never apologizing or admitting mistakes/transgressions because it's a sign of weakness.

    i'll defer to your knowledge of UK politics.....would it make bojo look weak if cummings stepped down at this point?

  11. #336
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Seems that a Minister has resigned over it.

  12. #337
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    ^^ DC won't resign, but if he did then I don't think BoJo would take much of a hit now.

    Brits admire loyalty, even if misplaced.

    The idea of BoJo being considered 'loyal' in any sense is absurd of course, so therefore likely.

  13. #338
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    Floundering Boris leaves no doubt: our PM is a showman out of his depth

    We’ve reached the point where the only way to understand the state the country is in is to realise that it has become a banana republic.

    A failed state run by a bad joke of a prime minister, who prioritises the job security of his elite advisers over the health of millions. A man who sees no need to be across the most basic points of government policy and is so inarticulate that he can’t even start a sentence let alone finish one.

    It’s normal for a prime minister to appear before the liaison committee – the supergroup of select committee chairs – at least three times a year. This was the first time Boris Johnson had bothered to turn up in more than 10 months. And you could see why. Even with Dominic Cummings sitting just off screen – Boris’s eyes kept darting to the right, desperate for help – holding up placards with something approximating an answer, Johnson was lost for words. The great populist who doesn’t even realise he has long since lost the support of the people. A mini-dictator surrounded by yes men locked inside the No 10 bunker.

    That made this even more pathetic and desperate a spectacle was that Boris clearly believed he had prepared thoroughly. If he had, then his short-term memory is completely shot. More likely though, Boris’s idea of preparation is just a quick 10-minute skim of a briefing note.



    Boris is the supreme narcissist – the apogee of entitled arrogance in which other people are there only to serve his needs. A fragile ego, disguising an absence of any self worth.What’s more, you sense he knows it. That in the wee, wee hours he looks through a glass darkly and sees the blurred outlines of his limitations and failure.

    The session started with questions from committee chair, Bernard Jenkin, and Boris was clearly expecting friendly fire. Only to many people’s surprise – possibly even his own – Bernie turned out to be no patsy. Instead he went straight to the point. Why was there to be no cabinet secretary inquiry into Dominic Cummings’s clear breach of the government coronavirus guidelines.

    “Um... er... well,” Boris blustered looking frantically to Classic Dom for help. Up went the placard ‘It’s time to move on.’ “Um... er... well ... I think what the country wants is to move on,” he said.

    What the opinion polls have clearly shown is that at least 70% of the country think that Laughing Boy is basically taking the piss – one rule for the elites, another for the little people. Only Boris somehow ignored that, believing that he knew better what the people really thought than they did. Who would have guessed that Boris would have subscribed to the Marxist idea of false consciousness?

    Six times Boris insisted that the country wanted to move on. Something I’m sure the families of those who have died – not to mention the many thousands who could yet die as the prime minister trashed his own public health message to protect a chum – must have been delighted to hear.

    Pete Wishart, Meg Hillier and Yvette Cooper all went in for the kill. Had Boris actually seen the evidence that Cummings had provided for his special and different Covid-19 fortnight away on his father’s estate? Boris nodded fiercely. He had.

    And the evidence was that it was Dom who was running the country and he didn’t have the power to sack him.

    Nor could he explain the difference between deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries’s clear instructions to stay at home and the supine advice of several cabinet ministers who had insisted that maybe having to look after your own child constituted exceptional circumstances. Boris’s best guess was that maybe Harries hadn’t been as clear as he would have liked her to be and he hoped that she would come on message in the near future.

    He ended the section on Cummings by insisting that all the stories that Dom had corroborated in his rose garden press conference were essentially false.

    Things didn’t improve when Jenkin moved on to other areas of the government’s handling of the coronavirus. Boris had only the sketchiest idea of how the new track and trace system that was meant to come in to operation the following day would work. A nation panicked. He even said he was forbidden from making any promises on dates for reaching government targets. Let that sink in. The prime minister is forbidden from making his own policy. If we had been in any doubt who was running the country we weren’t any more.

    Boris didn’t even know the basics of how his own benefits system operated. This was Government 101 and the prime minister was still out of his depth. During the worst health crisis for a century we are lions led by dead donkeys.

    Floundering Boris leaves no doubt: our PM is a showman out of his depth | John Crace | Politics | The Guardian

  14. #339
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    I liked this article, re Johnson and Cummings, from the ForeignPolicy: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/29/cummings-boris-johnson-lockdown-britain-lying/

    FP is US based, so plain talking without the bias.

    For those that can't be bothered/don't have time, the last paragraph is worth a read.

    The Decline and Fall of British Lying



    In Britain’s hierarchical culture, the crime for the upper classes isn’t telling lies—it’s getting caught.


    Lying, ultimately, is an exercise of power, which is why the styles of lying practiced in different countries can tell us something useful about how they are governed. At one extreme are the lies that are not meant to be believed. These come from pure tyrannies, like Vladimir Putin’s Russia. The purpose of lies there is not even to spread confusion but to make it plain that the liar has power and the lied-to can do nothing about it. Black is white, war is peace, freedom is slavery: These slogans may work to some extent because they are believed, but their real force comes when they are not believed and the people are compelled to repeat them anyway. That’s how naked power is expressed.

    At the other end of the spectrum are reasonably egalitarian, high-trust societies where politicians really do try to explain themselves honestly and people expect to believe them. They are not always telling the truth, of course, but for the most part they are unconscious of this. Sweden was a country like that 30 or 40 years ago and to some extent still is.

    In the middle are countries like Britain, which are governed through a recognizable class hierarchy and where lying among the upper classes is governed by an accepted code. Watching Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson over the last week has been a wonderful illustration of this, not least because both have violated the code.

    In Johnson’s case, he does not even pretend very hard to tell the truth. Colleagues and competitors of his from his time as a correspondent in Brussels still gasp and stretch their eyes at the memory of some of the stories he wrote from there. This is not how a responsible liar behaves, and if you learn one thing at a British elite school, it is how to lie responsibly and with a grave face, as if it were done for the good of the people who believe you. Johnson’s intoxicating schtick has always been that to believe him will make you feel good, not that it will do you any good at all.

    Cummings is even less capable of behaving as if he were merely carrying out his duty. His performance in the Rose Garden was extraordinary because he behaved throughout as if he were, like a Swede, entitled to a sympathetic hearing. A man who has for years maintained an extensive blog to prove that he is cleverer and more farsighted than almost everyone else in public life seems genuinely to have expected that the world would sympathize with his lonely predicament. The accomplished liar needs to understand the expectations of his audience rather better than that.

    Compare and contrast Cummings’s wife, Mary Wakefield, who has an advice column in the Spectator that consists, week after week, of people writing to her asking how to get out of tricky social problems and her replying with the correct lie or evasion of the truth, always calibrated to preserve appearances and remain plausibly deniable. This, it is implied, is what you need to know to be part of the upper classes.

    The distinctive quality of traditional British political lying, though, is the understanding that there is not one audience but two. One is made up of the other members of the elite minority who understand the truth and who deserve to do so, and the other is everyone else. They may take your words at face value—and if they do, they also deserve what they get.

    This consciousness of a double audience is related to the distinction between public and private truth that has to be maintained in a hierarchical society. It is revealed again by the convention that the one unforgivable sin in a minister is to lie to the House of Commons. What you tell the press or even your constituents is one thing, but you have to tell the strict truth, when that can be established, to your equals in Parliament.

    My favorite example comes from the heart of the old establishment, in a row over whether the Church of England should allow women to become bishops. Since the church is an established part of the constitution, and some bishops sit in the House of Lords as of right, this is not just an internal, theological question but one in which some parliamentarians take a keen, legitimate influence.

    After two decades of wrangling between supporters and opponents of female priests, a compromise had been reached in 2012, which the General Synod at the last moment rejected. At this, the member of Parliament whose job it is to liaise between the synod and Parliament rose in the synod and said politicians would not tolerate such an offense against equality. Twenty minutes later, in response to a direct question at a press conference, the person appointed to become the next archbishop of Canterbury responded that he was unaware of any pressure from the government on the matter. Archbishop Justin Welby is a man who is, in other contexts, appallingly vivid and truthful in his language—but he is also an Etonian, and when he saw the curtain drawn away to reveal political reality, he did not hesitate to drag it back into place.

    Let the problem be dealt with by grown-ups twisting arms behind the scenes while the play goes on as usual on the stage.

    This kind of concealment is built into the structure of British public life, and the people who practice it believe they are serving their nation. To quote the otherwise distinguished judge Lord Denning, when he turned down the appeal of six innocent Irishmen who had been fitted up by the police for an Irish Republican Army bombing, “If they won, it would mean that the police were guilty of perjury; that they were guilty of violence and threats; that the confessions were involuntary and improperly admitted into evidence and that the convictions were erroneous. … That was such an appalling vista that every sensible person would say, ‘It cannot be right that these actions should go any further.’”

    The Denning doctrine is that for lies to do their necessary work of holding society together, it must never be admitted in public that they are in fact lies. This is a very different attitude to that of Putin or Donald Trump or, for that matter, Johnson.

    It follows that under the British code the only thing worse than lying is getting caught. This goes all the way back to school. In Rudyard Kipling’s classic, Stalky & Co., the schoolboy heroes are constantly outwitting the masters by leading them to believe things that are not true without ever quite committing themselves to any outright untruth—except to their inferiors, of course. It is allowed to be “economical with the actualité” as a senior civil servant once explained when caught in a fantastically misleading obfuscation. It is allowed, and even admired, to get away with marvelously far-fetched excuses, as when a Conservative politician explained that he had written in a memo that he “wanted” something not in the vulgar sense of desiring or wishing for it, heaven forfend, but in the 18th-century sense of “lacking” it—and his party comrades affected to believe him.

    Perhaps it is all a question of what you can get away with. Another Etonian politician, the late Alan Clark, recorded in his diary his gushing admiration for Margaret Thatcher when she appeared cornered in a scandal about defense procurement and he was shown by the chief whip the statement she was to make to Parliament: “I read a few paragraphs, started [to giggle]. I couldn’t help it. ‘I’m sorry, John. I simply can’t keep a straight face.’ The paper passed from hand to hand. Others agreed, but were too polite to say so. How can she say these things without faltering? But she did. Kept her nerve beautifully. I was sitting close by, and could see her riffling her notes, and turning the pages of the speech. Her hand did not shake at all. It was almost as if the House, half horrified, half dumb with admiration, was cowed.”

    The difficulty with judging lies solely by their success is that you have no defense when they appear to fail. Tony Blair was destroyed by the belief that he had lied over the Iraq War, whether it was technically ever true or not. Once trust is lost, you can’t appeal to the truth of the matter. This is what Cummings and Johnson in their different ways have failed to understand. In a free society, lying works only by consent of the lied-to, and people who tolerate liars who lie by the rules will never forgive a cheat.



  15. #340
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    we at the EU have been saying this for years, the Brits are backstabbing liars you can't trust on anything

    they simply have no words, and that doesn't work with our German friends

  16. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    we at the EU have been saying this for years, the Brits are backstabbing liars you can't trust on anything

    they simply have no words, and that doesn't work with our German friends
    People like you and the Carey idiot lack the common sense to stay out of issues you don’t comprehend. Outright fantasists and dreamers like Cyrille and SA will continue with what they have been spoon fed by Guardinista opinion columns since birth. It is their birthright to be stubborn and stupid.
    You little pricks can shut the fuck up and go away.
    Stick to Europe and the USA. Simple fare for simple folks.

  17. #342
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Boris Johnson's bad week isn't going to end



    With the exception of the days he spent in intensive care, this past week has been Boris Johnson's worst since taking office.


    Johnson has been embroiled in a scandal surrounding his chief adviser, Dominic Cummings, who it emerged had travelled over 260 miles with his wife and child after developing symptoms for Covid-19. He then drove to a nearby town, which local police say amounted to a minor breach of lockdown regulations, though no further action will be taken.
    Despite public outrage, opinion polls showing a dip in support for the government and members of his own party demanding that Cummings be sacked
    Boris Johnson's bad week isn't going to end - CNN



  18. #343
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    So, the proposed 2 week quarantine for international arrivals in the UK looks like it's in doubt now.

    After all, as I mentioned some time ago quarantine is usually for people arriving from areas with heavy infection rates, not when travelling into one.

    Greece, for example, has decided it doesn't want people arriving from the UK for a while, thanks very much.

    So BoJo won't be staying at his father's holiday home in Pelion.

    Greece might be high on the list of many people’s summer holiday destinations, but for Britons dreaming of getting away the country will be out of reach for some time yet.


    The UK was not included on a list of 29 countries released by Athens on Friday deemed to fit an “epidemiological profile” that makes travel from them relatively safe.


    However, people from European countries including Albania, Austria, Denmark, Germany, Finland, Norway Romania and Serbia – which like Greece have kept coronavirus infection rates and casualties low – will be allowed to fly in from 15 June.


    And further afield, residents of Australia, New Zealand, China, Japan, South Korea were also told they could visit.


    But the epidemiological profile “sadly” did not apply to Britain, said government officials, aware that the UK is one of Greece’s biggest markets. Last year close to 4 million Britons travelled to Greece, with most heading to its extensive archipelago, which has remained remarkably Covid-free.


    One prominent visitor has been the UK prime minister, Boris Johnson, who has often stayed at the villa his father owns in Pelion, the peninsula off the Greek mainland overlooking the Aegean Sea.
    Britain left off 'safe list' of countries free to holiday in Greece | Travel | The Guardian

  19. #344
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    ^Pretty hard to fly anywhere just now, for anyone. Do enlighten me, how important is this lengthy Guardian piece in the grand scheme of things? How important and newsworthy is it?
    The impact on you ...... well, the less said about that, the better.

  20. #345
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    Let me explain.

    Brexit was based on several lies: that the EU was an entity of itself and had taken control of Britain, that the EU was an isolationist corrupt association against free trade manipulated by a coterie of unelected mafiosi bleeding Britain dry and, finally, the biggest of them all, by leaving the EU Britain would become a new economic imperialist power bestriding the world like some new colossus redolent of the old empire.

    These lies were given wing by a campaign of propaganda rooted in misinformation, sloganism and false promises organised by Dominic 'Goebbels' Cummings the power of which persuaded BoJo the Clown into ditching his friend Cameron and his belief in the EU.

    So enthralled by Goebbels was the hapless BoJo that he was hired to manage BoJo's election that was fought on the lie that Brexit would be delivered in its entirety which would unlock Britain's greatness and, the next lie, release it from the shackles of a civil service that connived with the evil EU to imprison the country in its moribund embrace.

    The trouble with this doctrine of deflection and deceit is that it has no strength, no core, and certainly no virtue. It is simply the appearance of power but without any substance and is little more than a construct every bit as substantial as an egg shell utterly reliant on the credulity of a stupid and deluded public.

    And now the people are waking up. The scales are falling away from their eyes and the people are seeing Goebbels and his sock puppet Clown for what they are: nothing more than a pair of inept, irresponsible, lying and faltering buffoons hopelessly out of their depth without any notion of what true governance means and lacking in any integrity to concede their mandate was secured by a confidence trick that hoodwinked the public into believing their vacuous rhetoric.

    The thing is, no one wants to admit that they have been sold a pup and the longer they hide from the reality the more they believe they were right.

    This government is the worst in British political history, a ragbag rabble of the tenth rate and sycophantic that rose out of a giant fraud perpetrated on the British public midwifed by deceit spouted by charlatans.

    And after eight long weeks of the worst incompetence seen by any electorate we now have 50,000 headstones commemorating the utter abortion that is the BoJo/Cummings administration.

    That is the significance of the article Chas but you are quite simply too stupid to comprehend the message.

  21. #346
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    That might have been a bit 'lengthy' for him.


  22. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Pretty hard to fly anywhere just now, for anyone.
    Germany is opening restrictions on European arrivals on 14 June. Those coming from outside Europe are required to stay in quarantine for 14 days. This quarantine means NO leaving your apartment apart from going into your garden. You must have food and other basic goods delivered to your door. If you become ill there is a phone line to call and someone will visit to check on you.

    Flights are still available, albeit reduced. The quarantine restrictions are for those staying longer than 5 days (i.e. business trips are still allowed).

    The UK should have followed the German example since 16 March. They might have ended up with a few less headstones that way.

  23. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    Let me explain.

    Brexit was based on several lies: that the EU was an entity of itself and had taken control of Britain, that the EU was an isolationist corrupt association against free trade manipulated by a coterie of unelected mafiosi bleeding Britain dry and, finally, the biggest of them all, by leaving the EU Britain would become a new economic imperialist power bestriding the world like some new colossus redolent of the old empire.

    These lies were given wing by a campaign of propaganda rooted in misinformation, sloganism and false promises organised by Dominic 'Goebbels' Cummings the power of which persuaded BoJo the Clown into ditching his friend Cameron and his belief in the EU.

    So enthralled by Goebbels was the hapless BoJo that he was hired to manage BoJo's election that was fought on the lie that Brexit would be delivered in its entirety which would unlock Britain's greatness and, the next lie, release it from the shackles of a civil service that connived with the evil EU to imprison the country in its moribund embrace.

    The trouble with this doctrine of deflection and deceit is that it has no strength, no core, and certainly no virtue. It is simply the appearance of power but without any substance and is little more than a construct every bit as substantial as an egg shell utterly reliant on the credulity of a stupid and deluded public.

    And now the people are waking up. The scales are falling away from their eyes and the people are seeing Goebbels and his sock puppet Clown for what they are: nothing more than a pair of inept, irresponsible, lying and faltering buffoons hopelessly out of their depth without any notion of what true governance means and lacking in any integrity to concede their mandate was secured by a confidence trick that hoodwinked the public into believing their vacuous rhetoric.

    The thing is, no one wants to admit that they have been sold a pup and the longer they hide from the reality the more they believe they were right.

    This government is the worst in British political history, a ragbag rabble of the tenth rate and sycophantic that rose out of a giant fraud perpetrated on the British public midwifed by deceit spouted by charlatans.

    And after eight long weeks of the worst incompetence seen by any electorate we now have 50,000 headstones commemorating the utter abortion that is the BoJo/Cummings administration.

    That is the significance of the article Chas but you are quite simply too stupid to comprehend the message.
    The article discusses the absence of the UK from a list of countries who will be welcome to travel to Greece.
    Your political diatribe is off topic. Nothing to do with the article at all. Merely another opportunity (in your mind) to repeat your political vitriol, yet again ��

  24. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Germany is opening restrictions on European arrivals on 14 June. Those coming from outside Europe are required to stay in quarantine for 14 days. This quarantine means NO leaving your apartment apart from going into your garden. You must have food and other basic goods delivered to your door. If you become ill there is a phone line to call and someone will visit to check on you.

    Flights are still available, albeit reduced. The quarantine restrictions are for those staying longer than 5 days (i.e. business trips are still allowed).

    The UK should have followed the German example since 16 March. They might have ended up with a few less headstones that way.
    Pretty hard to fly anywhere just now, for anyone. Try reading the comment before you reply to it


  25. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    That might have been a bit 'lengthy' for him.

    How the fuck would a socialist simpleton like you be even remotely qualified to comment? Get fucked dickhead.

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