Indifference, they go about eating grass and Baaing
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Indifference, they go about eating grass and Baaing
By bombing the shit out of those responsible, probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowie
If I remember well, there had been times when others than muslims were "willing to die for a cause". Not so long, mainly during the WW's. Not really radical extremists" but soldiers, and also civilians - Resistance.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowie
Not sure how it is in nowadays wars, since the soldiers are in fact "mercenaries", surely not willing to die, however, ...
Erdogan asked Putin about the possibility of buying a Su-57
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/.../m994605-1.jpg
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, at the MAKS-2019 aerospace show in Zhukovsky, asked the Russian leader Vladimir Putin whether the Su-57 fighter is already flying and whether it can be purchased.
Leaders stopped at the fighter. Erdogan asked if this car was already flying, to which Putin replied in the affirmative. Then the Turkish president asked if this aircraft could be purchased. “You can buy it,” Putin answered, after which the leaders laughed, Interfax reports .
At the MAKS, Putin and Erdogan examined the Su-57 fighter , including looking into the cockpit of a fifth-generation fighter.
After that, the defense ministers of Russia and Turkey joined the leaders to discuss the aircraft.
On Tuesday , a video of an unusual landing of a fifth-generation Russian fighter Su-57 at the airfield in Zhukovsky also appeared on the Web .
https://vz.ru/news/2019/8/27/994605.html
Super quick and short landing Su-57 on press tour of the air show "MAKS-2019"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGyL_NJhCWU
Starts getting complicated after a while.
Where I read somewhere not only could Turkey buy it but get a coproduction deal. Damn sweet offer the Turks will be hard pressed to refuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Klondyke
Not so easy to switch between systems, as pointed out when Saudi wanted to dabble with pick and mix a while back. It's difficult, expensive and time consuming for an end user to switch from, say, American to say, Russian or Chinese weapons systems. The established suppliers supply not just the planes, missiles and bombs but also ensures that every item is compatible with all others and also the ability to service and maintain and keep them effective from day to day. This takes an army of trainers, advisors, maintenance and service engineers, logistics, strategists, intel, meteorologists and an array of non-military personnel from cooks and cleaners to site security and spare parts which would take years and many billions to replace.
Switching from one high-tech system to another is not something any nation would want to do on a whim. That said, anything can happen when an egotistical lunatic deals with a warrior god.
Absolutely agree. Interoperability is key to an effective military operation. Hence standards for even NATO rounds. In this specific case not much thought given to the complications however. All about political point making from both sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by jabir
Once again Europe fails with a clear answers. Looks like Uncle Sam will have to fix it again.
The Islamic dictator Erdogan has to go or Turkey should be thrown out of NATO.
US issues more threats to NATO ally Turkey after Erdogan confirms tests of Russian-made S-400 systems
Turkey’s tests of its Russian-made S-400 air defense systems violate Ankara’s commitment to NATO and may hamper its security relations with the US, the Pentagon has said, after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan confirmed the drills.
The US Department of Defense “condemns in the strongest possible terms” the S-400 tests, conducted by the Turkish military on October 16, Chief Pentagon Spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said on Friday. The course of action chosen by Ankara “risks serious consequences for our security relationship,” Hoffman added.
The Pentagon statement repeats almost word for word the US State Department’s reaction to the first reports of the successful tests last week.
Earlier on Friday, Erdogan made it clear to Washington that S-400 tests “have been and are being conducted” by Turkey. “The US stance absolutely does not concern us,” he stressed.
US issues more threats to NATO ally Turkey after Erdogan confirms tests of Russian-made S-400 systems — RT World News
^
It was US that brought Turkey into NATO (and that has been nothing but trouble) so it is US who should fix this problem.
The US doesn't trust Turkey (nor should anyone).Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
It just wants access to Incirlik.
The Turks has always been whoring trying to get as much as possible money wise every time U.S have requested to use the base.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
Turkey is U.S buddy and only U.S cares about which weapon system they buy, it is their problem and not Europe's
Why Is Turkey in NATO Anyway?
The alliance goes back more than 60 years—and it’s been decades of disappointments for both sides.
Kathy Gilsinan October 11, 2019
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2020/10/707.jpg
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan meets with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg in Istanbul.Handout via Reuters
“We think that this is a bad idea.”
A senior State Department official told reporters yesterday that the Turkish attacks on northeastern Syria targeting Kurdish fighters who have been America’s best partners in defeating ISIS in the country would help no one—not even Turkey. “This will not increase their security, our security, or the security of anybody else in the region.”
Donald Trump, after a call with the Turkish president on Sunday, promptly moved U.S. troops out of the area, clear of the coming bombardment. Otherwise they risked death at the hands of a NATO ally.
But what kind of ally forces Americans to flee from their friend’s American-made F-16s? For that matter, on America’s part, what kind of ally would arm and support a group Turkey considers a band of terrorists? How did the United States and Turkey end up tied together in NATO, when both their values and interests seem so far apart?
“We wanted Turkey in NATO because of the Cold War,” Steven A. Cook, a Turkey expert at the Council on Foreign Relations, told me. Back in 1952, with the alliance just a few years old, it expanded for the first time, welcoming two new members: Greece and Turkey. At the time, President Harry Truman offered membership to both as a way to contain Communist expansion—Greece’s Western-backed government had just defeated Communist forces in a civil war. It helped that Turkey also gave the alliance a foothold close to the Middle East.
This soon became a case of more allies, more problems. When Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974 following a Greece-backed military coup, the two allies came into direct conflict; in fact, Greece left NATO over it, before later rejoining. Later, the U.S. flew bombing raids on Iraq from Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base during the 1990–91 Gulf War; in 2003, though, Turkey refused to station U.S. troops on its territory to attack Baghdad. (Other U.S. allies, namely France and Germany, also opposed the 2003 Iraq War, though France was not fully participating in NATO at the time.) As for that whole democratic-values thing, the military stepped in to run the country about every decade or so.
But by the time anti-government protests swept Arab countries in 2011, Turkey looked like a model of stability and Islamic democracy. In an interview with NATO Review in 2012 marking 60 years of Turkey being in NATO, then–Turkish Defense Minister Ismet Yilmaz said that in joining the alliance, Turkey had made its direction, and its security, “the same as the West’s.” He went on: “This was not a decision Turkey took only in 1952. This was the consequence of Turkey supporting Western values. Let’s not say Western—universal values, which are democracy, human rights, and core values of human rights based on the rule of law.” Turkey was even negotiating for membership in the European Union.
Which all now seems a bit rich, given that the current leader, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, a self-avowed champion of the Muslim Brotherhood, has changed the constitution, rerun elections that didn’t favor his political party, and led a crackdown on journalists and political dissenters, as well as a purge of thousands suspected of involvement in a failed 2016 coup. Even on the interests front—Incirlik Air Base has been central to U.S. counterterrorism efforts in the ISIS era—hitches came up. The Turkish government did little to rein in ISIS fighters transiting its territory to join the battles in Iraq and Syria; some ISIS members even passed through Turkey to carry out attacks in Europe. Erdoğan’s government has bought Russian air defenses over vigorous American objections and in the face of sanctions threats, and as of this week, the Turkish government ditched an agreement that U.S. officials had hoped would keep the peace in northeastern Syria.
“About 10 years ago, you couldn’t swing a dead cat in Washington and not hit somebody who wouldn’t say, ‘Oh, Turkey’s a great ally’ … Now everyone’s mad at Turkey,” Cook said.
Hence the questions now about whether the alliance is even worth it. Senators Lindsey Graham and Chris Van Hollen are pushing bipartisan legislation to sanction Turkey over its Syria incursion; Graham has also floated suspending Turkey from NATO altogether. (There’s actually no clear legislative way to do this—the NATO charter doesn’t contemplate kicking out members, though members can leave on their own, as Greece did over its dispute with Turkey.) France’s EU-affairs minister, too, has said that NATO suspension is “on the table.”
What about the air base though? “Incirlik [the base the U.S. Air Force uses in southern Turkey] is an albatross,” said one former senior administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “But there are people in [the U.S. government] for whom Turkey is sacrosanct and all of its problems—busting U.S. sanctions, holding Americans hostage, threatening other NATO allies like Greece, supporting jihadists, buying Russian weapons, not to mention internal oppression and ongoing purges —are our fault. Truth is, we can’t do much at Incirlik. We need Turkey’s permission to blow our nose there.”
On the Turkish side, too, the marriage has been one of serial disappointments and misunderstandings. A February article in the pro-government Daily Sabah ran through a litany of issues with the alliance: Turkey, wrote the paper’s politics editor, Seyma Nazli Gürbüz, is the second-largest military in the alliance, is a key partner in Afghanistan and elsewhere, hosts NATO initiatives around its own territory, and contributed more than $100 million in 2018. (This is short of the 2 percent of its defense budget that Trump has insisted all NATO members pony up.)
But “NATO disappointed Turkey more than once over the years”—when the U.S. refused to side with the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, when Germany accused Turkey of killing civilians in its battle with the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) in its own country in the 1990s, and through America’s ongoing refusal to hand over Fethullah Gülen, the U.S.-based leader of a Turkish political movement that Erdoğan blames for orchestrating the 2016 coup attempt. “Over time, siding with terrorists rather than Turkey became a pattern for many NATO member countries, particularly the U.S.,” Gürbüz wrote.
Two U.S. presidential administrations running have now sided with Kurdish fighters in Syria tied to the PKK over Turkey’s strenuous objections. Since Sunday, however, the dynamic seems to have shifted, and Trump—who has been sharply critical of the NATO alliance himself, and who has touted his administration’s achievements against ISIS—opted to take a NATO partner’s side over the Kurdish forces who did so much to help defeat the Islamic State. The shift was so sudden, it left officials at the State Department and the Pentagon scrambling to explain it and contain the fallout. In a phone call with the Turkish defense minister yesterday, U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper said “the incursion risks serious consequences for Turkey,” according to the Pentagon’s readout.
Once again, as Erdoğan sees it, some of his allies are siding with the terrorists. “Hey, European Union, pull yourself together,” he said in a speech yesterday. “If you try to label this operation as an occupation … we will open the gates and send 3.6 million refugees your way.”
Separately, at the United Nations Security Council, the NATO allies France, Germany, the United Kingdom, Belgium, and Poland introduced a statement condemning Turkey’s incursion into Syria. Turkey did have an ally on its side there. Ironically, given the alliance’s Cold War roots, America joined with Russia and declined to endorse it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...onship/599890/
Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
You are getting me confused here lom :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
You must of heard of all the other troubles Turkey is starting here in Europe or in front of our door steps.
Never trust a Islamist!
The U.S. is making money, the Europeans are giving money to Turkey. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
Big difference
I'm not surprised that you can't distinguish between my opinion and a one year old article which I posted because it shines light on the troublesome relation between U.S and Turkey.Quote:
Originally Posted by HermantheGerman
Nonsense and I'm not surprised.Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
Turkey and NATO's Troubled Relationship - The Atlantic
The article says NATO's troubled relationship and not the U.S. as you want it to be. Plenty of examples of how Europe is failing to cope with Islamist Erdogan.
And your opinion also makes no sense and I'm not surprised again.
Germany paid good money for using the airbase in Incirlik but was forced to leave because Turkey refusal to allow visits by German parliamentarians. So your babbling comments about Turkey whoring for money make no sense. You do realize that Germany belongs to Europe :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
Well, that comment/opinion is so dumb that it doesnÂ’t deserve an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
Not Europes problem?
25.10.2020
France recalls ambassador from Turkey after Erdoğan says Macron needs “mental treatment”
France has recalled its ambassador from Ankara after Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron needs “mental treatment.
The French presidential office said “Excess and rudeness are not a method. We demand that Erdoğan change the course of his policy because it is dangerous in every respect.”
Earlier today, Erdoğan went on another bombastic rant claiming that his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron needs “mental treatment.”
“What is MacronÂ’s problem with Islam and Muslims? He needs mental health treatment,” Erdoğan said at the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) congress in central Kesareia (Καισάρεια, Turkish: Kayseri) province.
“What can be said to a head of state that treats millions of members of a religious minority in his country this way? First of all, (he needs) a mental check,” Erdoğan added, without sensing the irony of his continuous policy of converting Greek Orthodox Churches in Turkey into mosques.
Last FridayÂ’s beheading of Samuel Paty for showing cartoons of Muhammed, IslamÂ’s founder, sent shockwaves across France.
France Recalls Ambassador From Turkey After Erdoğan Says Macron Needs "mental Treatment" - Greek City Times
Not Europes problem? :rolleyes: Finally Europe/Macron speaks up.
In the highly unusual move, a French presidential official said the French ambassador to Turkey was being recalled from Ankara for consultations and would meet Macron to discuss the situation after ErdoğanÂ’s outburst.
France and its Nato ally are at loggerheads over a range of issues, including maritime rights in the eastern Mediterranean, Libya, Syria and the escalating conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh.
Ankara has been particularly incensed by a campaign championed by Macron to protect FranceÂ’s secular values against radical Islam, a debate given new impetus by the murder of a teacher who showed his class a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed.
Very baldy orange cunto if I might say.Quote:
Originally Posted by HermantheGerman
And as usually at such high politicized event, the culprit was shot dead...
HermantheBrit :)Quote:
Originally Posted by HermantheGerman
#HermanTheScouserQuote:
Originally Posted by helge
Or he's taking English lessons from Chico.
Is it possible for you to not go off topic and mention Trump in every post. Your constant and obsessive hatred of Trump is tedious to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
Oh would you fuck off. It is an absolutely baldy orange cunto trick to accuse someone of something you do yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Cow