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  1. #26
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    with his history of failures , we know the ending already

    it is interesting to see the number of countries that are arming themselves with new advanced systems - I wonder how much money globally is now being spent on weaponry - has it been increasing and what does it mean ?

    The run for resources is on. (look what those Turks are doing near Cyprus, next conflict coming up)
    Humanity is muliplying like rats and mother earth is taking its toll.
    Humans have been living in peace for too long lately.
    Something will happen!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    No, Germany doesn't have its own nuclear weapons despite being able to create them if it wished. However, Germany is part of the NATO nuclear sharing scheme and is capable of delivering US made nukes.
    Glad to hear my assumptions confirmed. Are the German citizens happy with being an unpaid taxi driver, - accepting the destination, the package to drop, supplying the cars, fuel and maintenance costs themselves?

    Are the citizens generally aware of/accept their role/ramifications of this, "agreement", highly likely to be dishonoured at the first missile strike, for "national security reasons" by the faraway country?

    As illustrated by Nev, above, these European countries plus Turkey, have the "honour" of wasting their citizens money, painting a target in their own country if bad things happen and agreeing with the unexceptional countries decision that UN NPT "Agreements" are null and void if the faraway country country, unilaterally decides to.

    "As of August 2016, 191 states have adhered to the treaty, though North Korea, which acceded in 1985 but never came into compliance, announced its withdrawal from the NPT in 2003, following detonation of nuclear devices in violation of core obligations.[4] Four UN member states have never accepted the NPT, three of which possess nuclear weapons: India, Israel, and Pakistan. In addition, South Sudan, founded in 2011, has not joined. "

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons


    Now under threat from a faraway country's desire to amend it to suit themselves:

    Bleak prospects for the ‘cornerstone’ Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty

    "Although lip service was paid to establishing a “diverse” international working group to pursue the initiative, the US clearly wishes to remain in the driver seat and will be the one to decide which states are invited to the inaugural meeting to be held in Washington this summer. The limited number to be included will be asked for their views on the US ideas, but with a secretariat from the State Department and clear control of the agenda, this will likely produce a “Made in America” process, with participation limited to suitably deferential allies and partners. It will serve US interests in providing a distraction from the deeply disturbing deterioration in implementation of NPT-originated commitments and will enable the US to point to a “process” and “fresh thinking” in the runup to the 2020 review conference."

    https://www.opencanada.org/features/...ration-treaty/

    Quite a step for the vassal countries to absorb. All to protect a faraway country, currently engaged in financial, political, social and military wars with countries in Europe, Asia, Africa, North America , South America. Oceania seems to be dozing contentedly, unable to independently decide a course of action beneficial to it's citizens. The Arctic is warming up for future conflicts, Antarctica frozen in time.
    Last edited by OhOh; 15-06-2019 at 03:58 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  3. #28
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    As illustrated by Nev, above, these European countries plus Turkey, have the "honour" of wasting their citizens money......
    That is all sweet and cute what you wrote there, but....
    "The countries THAT YOU SUPPORT surely have NO MONEY to be wasted by their dictorial governments.
    And their freedom can not be wasted because they have none. CAPICHE ?

  4. #29
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Maybe thats why that crazy *islamic Sultan needs S-400. He wants to take on the whole world.


    Macron declares solidarity with Cyprus on gas dispute with Turkey


    French President Emmanuel Macron on Friday called on Turkey to halt what he called Turkey’s illegal activities in Cyprus’ exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in relation to ongoing tensions in eastern Mediterranean over hydrocarbon resources, Reuters reported.
    The tensions in eastern Mediterranean escalated this week after Cyprus issued arrest warrants for 25 people including crew assisting the Turkish drilling vessel Fatih and officials at firms partnered with the state-run Turkish Petroleum Corporation, after Turkey announced early this month that a second Turkish drillship would begin drilling off Cyprus by July.

    Turkey also called last week a $9 billion gas deal Cyprus signed with the U.S.-based Noble Energy, the Dalek Group of Israel and Royal Dutch Shell “a concrete example of the Greek Cypriots' violation of the rights of the Turkish Cypriots”.
    “I want to reiterate my solidarity with Cyprus and my support and respect for its sovereignty. Turkey must stop its illegal activities in Cyprus’s exclusive economic zone,” Reuters quoted Macron as saying after a summit of Southern European Union heads of states on Friday in Malta.

    “The European Union will not show weakness on this matter,” the French President said.

    Turkey, the only country that formally recognise the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus, disputes the boundaries of the Cyprus’s EEZ and says exploitation of the island’s resources by the Cypriot administration infringes on the rights of Turkish Cypriots.

    “It’s important to signal that the EU should take specific measures if Turkey does not stop its infringing behaviour. Whoever doesn’t respect international law must suffer the consequences,” Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras said after the summit in Malta.
    The leaders of Italy, Malta, Portugal and Spain joined Greece and France in criticising Turkey for its failure to respond to calls from the European Union concerning its continued operations in the eastern Mediterranean and its actions.
    The Turkish Foreign Ministry on Saturday said the EU summit's declaration violated the international law and reflected the national positions of Greece and the Greek Cypriot administration.

    "For us, it lacks any value, force, or effect," the ministry said in written statement
    France and Greek Cyprus in May signed a deal that will allow French warships to use a naval dock on the island of Cyprus, while a French-Italian consortium including energy companies Eni and Total began to expand its presence in the Cyprus’ EEZ.

    French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian on Thursday denied reports published in the Greek press last month that French forces would deploy permanently in Cyprus during a bilateral.

    https://ahvalnews.com/eastern-medite...dispute-turkey
    * Turkey was on the right track before the little Sultan started to add a dash of Islam into his politics. Now its a shithole and turning like a toilete bowl waiting (hopefully) for the dump to be flushed.

  5. #30
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    I want to reiterate my solidarity with Cyprus and my support and respect for its sovereignty. - Macron
    The pygmy's a crank. Someone should ask him who pwns northern Cyprus, and how he proposes to respect the island's sovereignty while France has for decades contributed to securing and maintaining the land border between Turkey and Cyprus.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman View Post
    The countries THAT YOU SUPPORT
    As I have said many times I illustrate/report of news items issued from, in my opinion, under reported sources. As all here on TD understand, the general view was/still is, west is good, others are bad.

    I suggest that there are good things that some others may offer for the future. The important word is "offer" as opposed to western do it my way or we will crush you to dust.

    There is, in my opinion, a difference.



    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman View Post
    surely have NO MONEY to be wasted
    You are correct the alternate countries continue to utilise their wealth carefully and obtain greater value for expenditure. One only needs to review the amounts of it's citizens money one faraway country spends on "defence". More than the next 7 largest countries expenditure added together.

    One would assume it would make it immune to all other threats. Unfortunately their military planners have concluded that without employing nuclear tipped missiles they would lose a war with China, Russia and even Iran. If nuclear tipped missiles are employed they don't win against China or Russia. They are walking back invasion plans of Venezuela, due, allegedly, to a Russian detachment of 50 soldiers and Cuban doctors and nurses....... I don't know how much Russia charges for a few soldiers and a transport plane on standby, but presumably it is much less than a faraway country spends, in an afternoon.

    Luckily, historically one faraway country has been able to borrow money from abroad or steal resources under the barrel of a rifle

    The days of a faraway country's ability to borrow wealth or it's citizens and military to stamp around the world and slaughtering/subjugating Jonny foreigner have, thankfully, greatly diminished.

  7. #32
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HermantheGerman View Post
    He wants to take on the whole world.
    he is the standard dictator bind - if he goes then he must pass the baton to someone who will not jail him and his cronies

    the educated Turk dislikes him and his party and they were hoping he would get voted out last year - he and his ilk are losing support so he is likely to turn to the last refuge of the despot

  8. #33
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    he and his ilk are losing support so he is likely to turn to the last refuge of the despot
    Become best buddies with Trump.

  9. #34
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    I wonder how much money globally is now being spent on weaponry
    "total value of the global arms trade in 2017 was at least $95 billion.* However, the true figure is likely to be higher"

    https://www.sipri.org/databases/fina...bal-arms-trade

  10. #35
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    Et tu, Brute?

    United States ups the ante for India on S-400, says defence ties at risk

    India’s acquisition of S-400s “effectively could limit India’s ability to increase our own interoperability”, Alice Wells, head of the state department’s South and Central Asia bureau told lawmakers at a congressional hearing.

    A senior Trump administration official said on Thursday there were “serious concerns” about India’s planned acquisition of Russian S-400 missile defense systems that could not only leave India vulnerable to sanctions but also “limit” interoperability between US and Indian militaries, a key focus of growing ties between the two countries.

    India’s acquisition of S-400s “effectively could limit India’s ability to increase our own interoperability”, Alice Wells, head of the state department’s South and Central Asia bureau told lawmakers at a congressional hearing.

    The threat to defense interoperability is a new and developing argument Americans are deploying to ratchet up the ante for India by saying it could be risking growing defense ties marked by the signing last year of the Communications Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) that allows the sharing of classified defense intelligence and is considered a foundational military pact, the sale and offers of sale of hi-tech defense equipment and platforms to India and joint exercises.

    “At (a) certain point a strategic choice has to be made about partnerships and a strategic choice about what weapons systems and platforms a country is going to adopt,” Wells said.

    The United States first used the interoperability argument in the context of S-400s against Turkey, a NATO ally. It is in danger of losing the alliance’s next-generation F-35 fighter jets that it had contracted to buy, and already paid for, over its plans to buy the Russian missile defense systems despite American warnings and threats, because, US department of defense officials said earlier this week, the two platforms are “incompatible”. Americans, actually, fear that their cutting-edge, superior technologies could be compromised working in the same environment as Russian equipment.

    Interoperability was Wells’s first line of argument on the issue of S-400s on India’s shopping list in response to a question from a lawmaker who wanted to know India’s reasons for pursuing the deal. And it overtook the threat of sanctions US officials had held out as the lead deterrent under a US law aimed at punishing Russia for the 2016 election meddling, the Countering American Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA).

    It was not an empty threat at the time and now after a Chinese military procurement agency was sanctioned for buying the same Russian defense systems.

    Wells did deploy the sanctions threat at the hearing, but later. “There is no blanket waiver or country waiver when it comes to an S-400,” she said, adding, “we have serious concerns about a possible S-400 purchase and we are continuing our conversation on what the United States or others … how they could assist India.”

    The United States has offered India its top-of-the-line Terminal high Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) and Patriot-3 missiles defense systems instead, as obliquely acknowledged by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in a speech Wednesday to preview his upcoming first visit to India.

    Pompeo mentioned the months-old offer of the two American missile defense system without mentioning S-400s. India has yet to respond and has seemed determined to go ahead with the Russian system, a deal that was formalized during President Vladimir Putin’s visit to New Delhi last October.

    The United States is not about to give up though and it has conveyed it multiple times to Indians. But Indian interlocutors and officials, who have sought to overplay India’s clout in a miscalculated bid to brazen it out, either ignored the warnings or misread them. And not for the first time in recent times. Despite their pushy optimism, India did not get a second round of waiver from US sanctions on Iranian crude exports (India was one of their biggest buyers) and found itself kicked off a list of 120 countries whose products could enter the US duty free under the Generalized System of Preferences programme.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world...Zur5CTgeJ.html

  11. #36
    Thailand Expat
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    Turkey will not hesitate to use the S-400s when necessary, says Erdoğan

    Turkey will not hesitate to use the Russian S-400 missile systems when necessary, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said.

    Speaking to reporters on his airplane returning from a trip to Bosnia, the president said that it was out of the question for Turkey to back out of this purchase.

    "We have the right and opportunity to use it wherever and whenever we need to. This is an air defense system. As such, we will activate this system if we were to come under any attack. This is why we have made such an investment.

    https://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/t...rdogan-3495165

    As a matter of fact...

    BTW, he is saying it who to?



  12. #37
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Meanwhile Turkey is getting everyones backs up by drilling for oil and gas in Cypriot waters.

    Fucking parasites, who do they think they are, Chinastan?

  13. #38
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    Unfortunately their military planners have concluded that without employing nuclear tipped missiles they would lose a war with China, Russia and even Iran. If nuclear tipped missiles are employed they don't win against China or Russia. They are walking back invasion plans of Venezuela, due, allegedly, to a Russian detachment of 50 soldiers and Cuban doctors and nurses....... I don't know how much Russia charges for a few soldiers and a transport plane on standby, but presumably it is much less than a faraway country spends, in an afternoon.

    The problem with that theory of course is that neither Russia Iran or China can financially sustain a war which would draw in all the western powers and they know it. The west just simply cannot allow the USA to fail. Without trade with the west there would be financial devastation to the Russian and Chinese economies. The rich Arab states know where there financial bread is buttered and it isn't the Chinese and certainly not the Russians..The Indians have no love of the Chinese either. And then there's the Japanese. They would be under no illusions about treatment from a victorious China and they are rated about no 6 in the world for fire power. Xi can only maintain an oppressive dictatorship while people can see a lift in their living standards a sustained drop will bring internal unrest. Taiwan and Hong kong will see an opportunity to rid themselves of an authoritarian China, fomenting even more internal unrest. There is a lot of Iranians that would be happy to see the ass end of the mullahs and even Vlad is losing popularity with his removal of freedoms etc.
    BTW. maybe you could ask the Tibetans about how much they love their Chinese invaders..
    Last edited by Hugh Cow; 12-07-2019 at 08:36 PM.

  14. #39
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Speaking to reporters on his airplane returning from a trip to Bosnia, the president said that it was out of the question for Turkey to back out of this purchase.
    Some of the system started arriving today.


    Russian S-400 systems land in Turkey

    The first shipment of a Russian missile defense system has arrived in Turkey, the Turkish Defense Ministry said Friday, moving the country closer to possible U.S. sanctions and a new standoff with Washington.

    A Defense Ministry statement said "the first group of equipment" of the S-400 air defense systems has reached the Murted Air Base near the capital, Ankara. The delivery of parts of the system will continue in the coming days and authorities will decide "how it will be used" once the system is made operational, Turkey's defense industry authority said in a statement.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International...urkey-64286714
    Nev has style

  15. #40
    Thailand Expat
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    A NATO member - not so unimportant - is armed by weapons of NATO's foe...

  16. #41
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    Some of the system started arriving today.
    Which is precisely why the F35's won't be.

  17. #42
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    What ?!?! Miss out on dodgy F-35s and be forced to get SU-57s instead ?
    Winning !!!
    Except it’s not a win for the orange imbecile.

  18. #43
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmartin View Post
    What ?!?! Miss out on dodgy F-35s and be forced to get SU-57s instead ?
    Winning !!!
    Except it’s not a win for the orange imbecile.
    Well he's probably already told Vlad all about the F35 anyway in fairness, being the little Putin stooge he is.

  19. #44
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    Trump Aides Pick Sanctions to Punish Turkey for Russian Missiles
    14 July 2019

    President Donald Trump’s team has settled on a sanctions package to punish Turkey for receiving parts of a Russian missile defense system and plans to announce it in the coming days, said people familiar with the matter.

    The administration chose one of three sets of actions devised to inflict varying degrees of pain under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, the people said, without identifying which set had been chosen. The plan needs Trump’s approval.

    One of the people said the intention is to announce the sanctions late next week. The administration wants to wait until after Monday’s anniversary of a 2016 coup attempt against Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to avoid fueling further speculation that the U.S. was responsible for the uprising, as Erdogan’s loyalists have claimed.

    The plan was developed after days of discussions between officials at the State and Defense departments and the National Security Council. It awaits a sign-off by Trump and his top advisers, the people said, requesting anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter. A State Department spokeswoman declined to comment.

    Turkey on Friday began receiving parts for the Russian-made S-400 missile system, which the U.S. has said puts at risk the Pentagon’s costliest weapons program, the F-35 fighter jet built by Lockheed Martin Corp. Turkey turned to Russia after failing to reach agreement with the U.S. on defense systems.

    The deliveries make it almost certain the Middle East’s largest economy will be subject to punitive U.S. action. By law, Trump needed to pick at least five out of 12 different sanctions -- ranging from mild to harsh -- under the sanctions act, once delivery was certified.

    The administration has been weighing when to punish Turkey, according to a person familiar with the deliberations who asked not to be identified discussing the sensitive situation. Washington is wary of announcing sanctions too close to the anniversary of the July 15, 2016, coup attempt that Erdogan blamed on Fethullah Gulen, an ally-turned-enemy now in exile as a Muslim cleric in Pennsylvania.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ssian-missiles

  20. #45
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Turkeystan on the naughty step.

    BRUSSELS — European Union foreign ministers on Monday turned up the pressure on Turkey after approving an initial batch of sanctions against the country over its drilling for gas in waters where EU member Cyprus has exclusive economic rights.

    The ministers said in a statement that in light of Turkey’s “continued and new illegal drilling activities,” they were suspending talks on an air transport agreement and would call on the European Investment Bank to “review” it’s lending to the country.

    They also backed a proposal by the EU’s executive branch to reduce financial assistance to Turkey for next year. The ministers warned that additional “targeted measures” were being worked on to penalize Turkey, which started negotiations to join the EU in 2005.


    Turkey’s Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu issued his own warning last week that his country would step up drilling activities off Cyprus if the EU moved ahead with sanctions.


    Two Turkish vessels escorted by warships are drilling for gas on either end of ethnically divided Cyprus.


    The EU ministers repeated the “serious immediate negative impact” that Turkey’s illegal actions are having on EU-Turkey relations and called on Ankara to respect Cyprus’ sovereign rights in line with international law.


    They also welcomed the Cypriot government’s invitation to Turkey to negotiate the borders of their respective exclusive economic zones and continental shelf.

    Turkey doesn’t recognize Cyprus as a state and claims 44% of Cyprus’ exclusive economic zone as its own, according to Cyprus government officials. Turkish Cypriots in the east Mediterranean island nation’s breakaway north claim another 25%.


    Cyprus was split along ethnic lines in 1974 when Turkey invaded in the wake of a coup by supporters of union with Greece. A Turkish Cypriot declaration of independence is recognized only by Turkey, which keeps more than 35,000 troops in the breakaway north. Cyprus joined the EU in 2004, but only the internationally recognized south enjoys full membership benefits.


    Turkey contends that it’s protecting its rights and those of Turkish Cypriots to the area’s hydrocarbon deposits. Cypriot officials, however, accuse Turkey of using the minority Turkish Cypriots in order to pursue its goal of exerting control over the eastern Mediterranean region.


    The Cypriot government says it will take legal action against any oil and gas companies supporting Turkish vessels in any repeat attempt to drill for gas. Cyprus has already issued around 20 international arrest warrants against three international companies assisting one of the two Turkish vessels now drilling 42 miles off the island’s west coast.


    The Cyprus government has licensed energy companies including ExxonMobilXOM, -0.71% , France’s Total TOT, +0.23% and Italy’s Eni E, -0.96% to carry out gas drilling in blocks, or areas, off the island’s southern coastline. At least three significant gas deposits have so far been discovered there.


    Meanwhile, Cyprus’ Greek Cypriot President NIcos Anastasiades will chair a meeting of political leaders Tuesday to discuss a renewed proposal by Turkish Cypriot leader Mustafa AKinci to establish a joint committee with Greek Cypriots on managing offshore gas drilling activities.


    Akinci has repeatedly called for the creation of such a committee that he says would give his community a say in how newly found gas deposits off Cyprus’ southern coast are managed and future proceeds are divvied up. A similar proposal was made by Akinci’s predecessor Dervis Eroglu in 2011.


    The Cypriot government says energy discussions with Turkish Cypriots should be part of overarching reunification talks, adding that Turkish Cypriot rights to the island’s energy reserves are assured. The government says future gas proceeds that will flow into an established hydrocarbons fund will be shared equitably after a peace deal is signed.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/eu...rus-2019-07-15

  21. #46
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    ^Off topic

    (now we do not know what to think about that):
    Pentagon postpones press briefing on Russian missile system delivery to Turkey

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon said on Friday it had indefinitely postponed a press briefing on Turkey accepting delivery of an advanced Russian missile defense system.

    The briefing was supposed to take place earlier on Friday with senior leaders on the Pentagon’s response to the parts of the Russian made S-400 being delivered to Turkey.

    The Pentagon added that Acting U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper had spoken with his Turkish counterpart for about 30 minutes on Friday, but did not provide details on the discussions.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKCN1U72KQ

  22. #47
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    the Turks are fooking the Americans in the ass over the Russia weapons, awesome!!!

  23. #48
    Custom user Neverna's Avatar
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    US removes Turkey from F-35 fighter jet programme

    17 July 2019
    The US says it is removing Turkey from its F-35 fighter jets programme, after Ankara received the first parts of a Russian missile defence system.

    The US says the "F-35 cannot coexist with a Russian intelligence collection platform that will be used to learn about its advanced capabilities".

    Russia began delivering its advanced S-400 system to Turkey last week.

    In a statement on Wednesday, White House spokeswoman Stephanie Grisham said: "Unfortunately, Turkey's decision to purchase Russian S-400 air defence systems renders its continued involvement with the F-35 impossible.

    "The United States has been actively working with Turkey to provide air defence solutions to meet its legitimate air defence needs, and this administration has made multiple offers to move Turkey to the front of the line to receive the US Patriot air defence system.

    "Turkey has been a longstanding and trusted partner and Nato ally for over 65 years, but accepting the S-400 undermines the commitments all Nato allies made to each other to move away from Russian systems."

    At the same time Ms Grisham stressed that "the United States still greatly values our strategic relationship with Turkey.

    "As Nato allies, our relationship is multi-layered, and not solely focused on the F-35," she said.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49023115

  24. #49
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    At the same time Ms Grisham stressed that "the United States still greatly values our strategic relationship with Turkey.
    Well that's bullshit, they just want the forward air bases.

    And let's face it, Erdogan is trying to kill the very people that helped defeat IS, so like he gives a fuck what the US think.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    Unfortunately their military planners have concluded that without employing nuclear tipped missiles they would lose a war with China, Russia and even Iran.
    Whose military planners are you talking about? Certainly not the US. Your comment is absurdly ridiculous and short sited if you were. War with all three of those countries would be completely different case scenarios. War with China would be mainly at sea and air with a full land invasion of China not even a close reality. Russia would not be able to withstand the attrition of war with the US and would ultimately succumb to a much superior foe. With regards to Iran the US would utterly decimate that country almost as fast as it bulldozed the Saddam regime. Nuclear weapons would not be needed and the US has a strong doctrine of using them under mutually assured destruction only.

    I think military strategy is another thing that you seem to talk out of the side of your mouth about.

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