A guaranteed basic income for all

**bsnub** · 28-03-2019, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

The problem is that he is not creating more jobs but that with automation he is creating less jobs, but I get your point. At some point it is no longer about wealth for the sake of wealth , but wealth for the sake of power and the ability to maintain and increase power.

Spot on!

**lob** · 28-03-2019, 09:43 AM

2. Abandon the Monetarist economy policies that have dominated the global banking systems for the past 40 years and let interest rates rise to reasonable rates - probably around 7%. This would discourage debt and encourage savings and investment in real property and assets rather than forcing people and organizations to gamble (invest in stock markets).[/QUOTE]
it would appear in 2 u have no fucking idea.

**OhOh** · 28-03-2019, 09:43 AM

Surely it's just a question of tax rates.

Use a car manufacturing line as an example.

Historically car bodies components were stamped by large presses sent to the line and assembled. The assembly was by bolting, gluing or spot welding, all performed by skilled workers.The company allowed for the cost of employing the workers plus any machine costs, stampers, sheds, component moving trucks etc. in their car selling price. The company was taxed on it's profits, as well as the workers being taxed on their wages. Both sets of the taxes went into the government pot and distributed according to the elected governments known and voted for policies.

Nowadays much more is spent on machines/robots and far less on workers. Simply increase the company taxation rate. Leave an amount acceptable to both the car manufacturers and the government department responsible for paying the now unemployed workers.

Now the task is incentivising the unemployed ex car worker to retrain and re-enter the workforce, where they earn more, post taxation, by working/being trained etc.

If the point is reached where their are no jobs suitable for workers the taxaction on the companies creating all products must cover the costs of maintaining the workers.

**lob** · 28-03-2019, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

Its incredible isn't it? You are trying to disuse the concept of the number 10 to people that have not yet grasped the concept of One, or Zero .
Which brings me back to the other thread I started, "Is Democracy being replaced by Idiocracy"

To make this perfectly clear, and I will speak slowly and loud for those hard of hearing.
T H I S -I S - N O T - A B O U T - S L A C K E R S - T H A T -D O N 'T -W A N T -T O -W O R K
T H I S -IS- A B O U T- P E O P L E- W H O- L O S T- T H E I R- J O B S- TO -A U T O M A T I O N
W I T H- N O -N E W -J O B S -B E I N G- C R E A T E D ! ! ! ! W H A T -D O- W E -D O- W I T H -
T H E S E -P E O P L E ? remember these people are you , your children, your family, your friends.

you are so correct, so sad people just dont unnerstan. in their defence, ignorance is bliss.. there should be a lot of happy posters.

**lob** · 28-03-2019, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

How many times and how may different ways do I need to say the same thing
increased productivity and decreased labor costs creates wealth.

Let me put forward the following ridiculous scenario where wealth is created without having to print money that has no value. Just to make a point. Please dont argue , where is the borrower going to get the money to pay the interest if all the money in the world are $100.00 I have over simplified this example for the purpose of expediency.
let's say all the money in the world are $100.00 and all the money in the world are borrowed by one person at 10% interest per year, a year later he has to pay back the loan plus interest.
All the money in the world are now $110.00
Debt increases the money supply.

its a fact money lenders dont want the loan back they want the interest... to go on for ever.... i.e if/when u repay, that same money is rolled over again, now with 10% more. money makes money. but the thread is about the time, when A1 takes over, which is a lot closer than mr normal unnerstans.. money is already outdated, replacments are due, already in the pipeline.

**bsnub** · 28-03-2019, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by lob

money is already outdated, replacments are due, already in the pipeline.

It is the only way to evolve to the next level.

**Buckaroo Banzai** · 28-03-2019, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by bsnub

It is the only way to evolve to the next level.

electronic credits and debits,
In the US I rarely have any cash in my wallet, just a couple of dollars for very small transactions. The big stores don't want cash. Cash requires work to count it, transport it, store it,
That's why when you make a transaction at a big store in the US they always ask, "do you want cash back?" they want to get rid of the cash, convert it in to bits and bytes , Much more easy to manage. I foresee very litle if any cash in the very near future. The whole economy would be one big Blockchain algorithm.

**Texpat** · 28-03-2019, 05:02 PM

Nothing is free. Ever. Anywhere.

Governments don't have any money except that which they take from others -- to redistribute to the unambitious and listless. Give them jobs, not handouts.

Look at what a disaster Affirmative Action is after 55 years. It has had the opposite effect. It has created a Plantation.

These wacky social programs and their "well-intentioned" braintrusts are the masters of unintended consequences.

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell

**SKkin** · 28-03-2019, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

I foresee very litle if any cash in the very near future. The whole economy would be one big Blockchain algorithm.

*beep*

We're sorry Buckaroo B, that item is not on the list of approved transactions. We will be in contact soon, with details for petitioning the Board of Acceptability, in order to reactivate your account.

Thank you and have a nice day.

*beep*

Control...

Seriously though, there's been some pushback here in the States on the cash free thing. I think it was Philly that passed a law/statute that all merchants must accept cash. Or maybe it was in New Jersey.

**Texpat** · 28-03-2019, 05:21 PM

Going cashless? Everything electronic? "Very near future"?

But asking adults to show a gov-issued (plastic and paper) ID card while voting is a bridge too far?

The stupidity and hypocrisy smacks these idiots straight in the face.

**bsnub** · 28-03-2019, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Give them jobs, not handouts.

Fucking clueless. Why is it that you are incapable of grasping why UBI is being proposed in the firsts place? There are massive changes coming in a very short period of time. Lots of jobs are going to be completely wiped off the board. There will not be replacements to keep everyone employed. Automation is about to expand in a massive way both physically and mentally. Machines are going to do things that they have never done before.

Why are you and boontard incapable of following the topic of the OP? My guess is it is the far right media alternate reality you both live in. You have no idea what is coming.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Look at what a disaster Affirmative Action is after 55 years. It has had the opposite effect. It has created a Plantation.

A plantation? What are you rambling about?

Originally Posted by Texpat

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell

You are applying the comment out of context. All of the EU are basically social democracies. In almost all cases they have a far higher quality of life and happiness then here in the US. Have you ever been to Europe? I really doubt that either yourself of boontard has. (queue the bsnub has never been to LOS here.)

**bsnub** · 28-03-2019, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Going cashless? Everything electronic? "Very near future"?

But asking adults to show a gov-issued (plastic and paper) ID card while voting is a bridge too far?

The stupidity and hypocrisy smacks these idiots straight in the face.

Totally off topic post by a complete idiot trying to derail the thread.

**harrybarracuda** · 28-03-2019, 07:09 PM

By the time there is universal basic income, you'll be able to join Starfleet.

**Buckaroo Banzai** · 28-03-2019, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Nothing is free. Ever. Anywhere.

Governments don't have any money except that which they take from others -- to redistribute to the unambitious and listless. Give them jobs, not handouts.

Look at what a disaster Affirmative Action is after 55 years. It has had the opposite effect. It has created a Plantation.

These wacky social programs and their "well-intentioned" braintrusts are the masters of unintended consequences.

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell

A straw man argument,. Who ever said that there was anything free???
the above is economics 101 , and a lesson every first year economics student learns , it goes something like this if I remember my macro economics. I will try to make it short and for you use small words.

Old King is dead, Prince becomes king and wants to be the best king ever.
He collects every economist in the country, and asks them to write him a book of everything known about economics.
They go away , toil away for months and come back with a cart full of books
By that time the new king is embroiled in other important matters, so he tells them to go back and condens them to something more manageable.
They go away work on it a few months and come back with one very thick book
By this time new king is involved in a war , ad tells them
"I don't have time for this, come back in a week and tell me everything I need to know about economics in one sentence or off with your heads"
A week later they come back but have failed, and they are lead to the gallows to be executed, on their way there the have to pass throw the kitchen and as they go through they ask the cook
" we are about to be killed , how about a free lunch" to which the cook replied
"there is no such thing as a free lunch"
a light bulb goes off in the economists heads and they ask to be lead back to the king because they have solved the riddle of condensing all economics in a single sentence, and their lives are saved.

Now go to sleep Dorothy

As far as the effectiveness of affirmative action is concerned there is no way to tell if it's a failure or not since there is no control subject to compare it too.
How can you say its a failure, is there another place where affirmative action was not implemented and it had better results??? you call affirmative actions results "plantation" obviously what you know about the African American community comes from third rate TV shows, but suppose we agree, How do you know that without Affirmative action there would not be a worst situation???

Socialism is a failure? the basis of civil society is socialism, if you are an American and age 65 you are collecting social security and you are on medicare, your ass is kept free by a military others pay for, a police force paid collectively by others, you ride your car on roads you did not build and your kids attend schools supported by public funds. When our economy was destroyed by your capitalist buddies, they were bailed out and your economic ass saved by one of the largest socialist project in US history, Farmers are subsidised, the oil industry is subsidised ,
Should I go on??? or is it only socialism for others that you are against???

If I am to be compromised, I'd rather be compromised by the unintended consequences of well intended programs, than the foreseen consequences of ill intended programs.
You can quote me Dorothy.

**OhOh** · 30-03-2019, 12:22 PM

A guaranteed basic income for all-5c9d6150a3104842e4a60e3f-jpeg

**baldrick** · 30-03-2019, 01:59 PM

Rutger Bregman the Historian had some comments on universal basic income

**Buckaroo Banzai** · 30-03-2019, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by baldrick

Rutger Bregman the Historian had some comments on universal basic income

Very interesting interview, thanks for sharing.
So true that every utopian idea started at the fringe while the moderates and centrists said it will never happen.
I am not so sure that UBI is a Utopian idea . IMO it unavoidable if our current economic system is to survive. IMO it is a pragmatic idea.

**Cujo** · 30-03-2019, 04:38 PM

In my local supermarket, where there used to be a row of checkout cashiers there is now a row of self checkout counters. Swipe your own goods, pay with an app on the phone. This is not coming, it is here now. Many jobs lost. And they are unskilled jobs, not being replaced by programming positions.
Something will need to be done and quickly or I see massive and widespread unrest.

**Buckaroo Banzai** · 30-03-2019, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Cujo

In my local supermarket, where there used to be a row of checkout cashiers there is now a row of self checkout counters. Swipe your own goods, pay with an app on the phone. This is not coming, it is here now. Many jobs lost. And they are unskilled jobs, not being replaced by programming positions.
Something will need to be done and quickly or I see massive and widespread unrest.

We are already seeing Unrest, and opportunity for a smart operator who promises to make things great again. Sounds familiar?

**Texpat** · 30-03-2019, 04:47 PM

^^ Sure, expedited by the demand to pay shiftless, menial labor more than they're worth. "You think you are worth that much? We'll invest in robots and you can GFY."

Japan was using that tech in the '80s. Hold a handbag up to a machine, get a drink -- hold a wallet over a subway reader and gain access. Price deducted from a card inside the wallet.

**misskit** · 30-03-2019, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Cujo

In my local supermarket, where there used to be a row of checkout cashiers there is now a row of self checkout counters. Swipe your own goods, pay with an app on the phone.

It is like that in all the major stores now. One is even moving away from the self check out counters to a self check and pay by phone. Scan the bar code as you pick up items, pay by phone, then leave.

**bsnub** · 30-03-2019, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Sure, expedited by the demand to pay shiftless, menial labor more than they're worth

That is a fallacy argument of the right which is the tool of the oligarchs. Automation in retail was coming regardless of wages. It does not matter whether someone was going to be paid $15 an hour or half that. The machine was still cheaper either way but you like boon always digest the simple supplied right wing sound bites like lemmings.

**Texpat** · 30-03-2019, 05:23 PM

Address the issue, buns, not the poster. Are you capable of that?

**bsnub** · 30-03-2019, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Address the issue, buns, not the poster. Are you capable of that?

I just torpedoed your point can you counter? I did not think so.

**DrB0b** · 30-03-2019, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Look at what a disaster Affirmative Action is after 55 years. It has had the opposite effect. It has created a Plantation.

These wacky social programs and their "well-intentioned" braintrusts are the masters of unintended consequences.

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell

Heh. Tex blasts affirmative action and then quotes one of its beneficiaries to back up an argument

Interesting quote though, what kind of people do you think Sowell is trying to appeal to when he says intelligence is a hindrance?

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