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  1. #101
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stroller View Post
    Age of consent is 16, which the exchange was about.
    I know but she remains a child until she reaches the age of 18.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by stroller View Post
    Age of consent is 16, which the exchange was about.
    The exchange was more about what age society considers a girl mature enough to make mature decisions.
    From Hugh's POV, it appears white girls are too immature at 15 to make life-changing decisions while brown girls should suffer the consequences of their poor choices.
    For me, I agree with society and that at age 15, no matter the colour of their skin, groomed girls are victims.

  3. #103
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    She's certainly not doing herself any favours with her comments, choice of baby's name, etc.

    Here's some comment on what might be legally possible:https://www.theguardian.com/politics...hip-be-stopped

    I suspect, like others have mentioned, that Britain will try to block her and her son's return, but will be overruled and they'll become a liability and a welfare cost; let's hope the son grows up to be a genius who benefits British society - it's possible.
    How do I post these pictures???

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Not at all. It's about the age of consent, particularly in Britain. Why is the age of consent even set? What is the rationale behind setting an age of consent?
    Consider that rationale when considering if this girl was groomed and taken advantage of by nasty people.
    While you are right that the law must define a legal age for each activity, around the world the age of consent for sex, marriage, drink/smoke, driving, gambling, voting, working, military enlistment and other activities are varied and adjusted to reflect many factors including social expectations, commercial and political interests.

    Fex, country by country voting ages are pegged around 18 but range from 16-25; Wilson reduced it from 21-18 in the 60s, now Labour wants 16, while others wish to undo Wilson's grand effort and return to 21. The legal age for each activity is not guesswork or by picking a number that's close enough, but whatever leaders determine for their society and in their time, which may be influenced by other interests.

    For sex, the age of consent varies from 11 to 21, while some countries have no age limits and sex is confined to marriage, and with serious consequences for offenders.

    No. You made the accusation that I was pulling the "poor brown person" card and I responded with mention of how when it was white girls below the age of consent in Rotherham, people like you were outraged, but when it is a brown girl, you lump her in with her groomers as a nasty person that made her own decisions.
    This girl's 'poor choice', brown or white, was to actively back the IS, which in our time is a proscribed outfit and a bit more intense than a fling behind the school bogs. Had she committed more serious crimes such as murder during her stay in Syria, would anyone need to know as a prerequisite whether she was 15 or 17 at the time? Or are there some things we should grow a spine for and accept as given, so that a 15, 16 or 18 year old would all know is intuitively wrong, no less than the adults that murdered an 18-yr old simply to experience the euphoria of killing someone?

    Just mho and always with exceptions, fex insanity or coercion, that the 'immaturity' defence should be reserved for 'immature' not adult offences.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    While you are right that the law must define a legal age for each activity, around the world the age of consent for sex, marriage, drink/smoke, driving, gambling, voting, working, military enlistment and other activities are varied and adjusted to reflect many factors including social expectations, commercial and political interests.

    Fex, country by country voting ages are pegged around 18 but range from 16-25; Wilson reduced it from 21-18 in the 60s, now Labour wants 16, while others wish to undo Wilson's grand effort and return to 21. The legal age for each activity is not guesswork or by picking a number that's close enough, but whatever leaders determine for their society and in their time, which may be influenced by other interests.



    This girl's 'poor choice', brown or white, was to actively back the IS, which in our time is a proscribed outfit and a bit more intense than a fling behind the school bogs. Had she committed more serious crimes such as murder during her stay in Syria, would anyone need to know as a prerequisite whether she was 15 or 17 at the time? Or are there some things we should grow a spine for and accept as given, so that a 15, 16 or 18 year old would all know is intuitively wrong, no less than the adults that murdered an 18-yr old simply to experience the euphoria of killing someone?

    Just mho and always with exceptions, fex insanity or coercion, that the 'immaturity' defence should be reserved for 'immature' not adult offences.
    We, society, have to draw a line somewhere. A 5 yo kid shoots his mum in Walmart is not to be jailed, right? I'm actually not arguing for or against what the age of consent should be. I'm saying that if she was below the age of consent when she was groomed, she should be afforded all the considerations that a white girl groomed before the age of consent would be afforded, no matter who the groomer was, ISIS or Rolf Harris. Hugh would not like to afford those considerations to her.

    I've actually gone out on a limb and repeatedly said I think she should be sacrificed for the greater good, to set an example. I have merely taken exception to those that say she should be sacrificed because she's a little bitch who should have known better and took up with ISIS. Those people would not be so callous had the girl been white and groomed by Jimmy Saville. Then she would have been a victim.

    I also consider the babys' position.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    hose people would not be so callous had the girl been white and groomed by Jimmy Saville. Then she would have been a victim..
    Yep, your are painting people who hold that view as racists then, here we go.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    Yep, your are painting people who hold that view as racists then, here we go.
    Well, if it is a fact that white groomed girls recieve sympathy while brown groomed girls don't, then yes, it sounds like racism to me.

  8. #108
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    I think its more complex than that, its their actions too. You are just being very, pardon the pun black and white. I would have no sympathy for a white girl in her position too, whereas the girls who were white and got sex traded by Paki gangs definitely...

  9. #109
    Member Bettyboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Well, if it is a fact that white groomed girls recieve sympathy while brown groomed girls don't, then yes, it sounds like racism to me.
    It's more complex.

    Where's her father? What are her family's political opinions; did they support her/do they still support her actions? Does she consider herself a victim? Given the same choices again, knowing what she knows now, would she do the same? Does she consider herself a British citizen first and foremost or does she consider her jihad actions to be closer to her chosen identity? One reason why folks are not sympathetic to this woman is that she appears to still be of the mindset she was when she left, doesn't think she did anything wrong, but just got fed up of a hard life and wants an easier option. I don't know, probably nobody does at this stage, but it's hard to imagine her becoming a fully integrated member of British society - it's possible.

    Being attacked by a pedophile is very different.

    It may be worth considering changing the law, offering some type of legal process where folks who want to go on jihad can themselves revoke their British citizenship (easily, online) and sign some kind of waiver to future British citizenship benefits - this seems to be what they want when they leave, so why not give it to them? (Obviously, it's gonna be more difficult than that legally, but...)

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    It's more complex.
    It undoubtably is more complex and you ask some pertinant questions.
    In the first instance, all I have been saying is (before the complexities have been asked and answered) why should she not be considered a victim, because she was indeed 15 when she left, and almost definitely younger when the grooming started?
    I think we also have to consider her rise into adulthood. At first glance she appears now to be adult and unrepentant. But what was the environment that nurtured her into her current adult mindset? I suspect it was not very positive.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    I think its more complex than that, its their actions too. You are just being very, pardon the pun black and white. I would have no sympathy for a white girl in her position too, whereas the girls who were white and got sex traded by Paki gangs definitely...
    What would make a white girl in her position different from the white girls groomed by the Paki gang?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    She's certainly not doing herself any favours with her choice of baby's name,
    Yer, she should have gone with 'Winston'.

  13. #113
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    ^ trolls are so boring

    ^^ I too would be willing for her to be considered a victim; if we claim our civility distances from the likes of ISIS then we can show it.

    It is irksome though when folks go abroad to join a group that hates us and wants to kill us all/destroy our entire way of life then they come back and we have to cuddle them, so to speak. I suppose these things are sent to test us...

  14. #114
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    This is just another tory scam to distract the UK from Brexit, knowing full well it will create media controversy as well as soothing the racist Brexiteers...

  15. #115
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    ^^Oh ffs. Even Omo wouldn't run with that line.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    It is irksome though when folks go abroad to join a group that hates us and wants to kill us all/destroy our entire way of life then they come back and we have to cuddle them, so to speak. I suppose these things are sent to test us...
    Yeah, it is hard, and I do understand how some people see it as a bitter pill, too bitter to swallow.
    The fact remains, who the groomers were should have no bearing.

  17. #117
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    This thread proves my point....

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    What would make a white girl in her position different from the white girls groomed by the Paki gang?
    Context & Consent, look em up and that is all i have to say on the matter.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    What would make a white girl in her position different from the white girls groomed by the Paki gang?
    She left her homecountry for ideological reasons to join a terrorist organisation.
    Can't you see how that's different from being groomed for the sex trade in Rotherham?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by stroller View Post
    She left her homecountry for ideological reasons to join a terrorist organisation.
    Can't you see how that's different from being groomed for the sex trade in Rotherham?
    Groomed for the sex trade in Rotherham or groomed to be a bride in Syria. No, I see no difference, only, possibly, the ideology and manipulations used by the groomers.
    Remember, she was groomed to be the fuck of an ISIS soldier, not to be a fighter. And even if she was groomed to be a fighter, the whole idea is the same: manipulating young minds to do the bidding of the groomers.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    Context & Consent, look em up and that is all i have to say on the matter.
    Ridiculous answer.
    Good that that is all you will have to say.

  22. #122
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    Not only are they not letting her back they want to strip her of her British citizenship.<br>
    The row over the fate of Shamima Begum, the teenager who travelled from east London to Syria to join&nbsp;<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/isis" data-link-name="auto-linked-tag" data-component="auto-linked-tag">Islamic State</a>&nbsp;in 2015, has taken a further twist as the home secretary ordered she be deprived of her British citizenship.
    <br>https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...enship-revoked

  23. #123
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    You are cherry picking ages to suit your argument about the ability of a 15yo to make ration decisions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Not at all. It's about the age of consent, particularly in Britain. Why is the age of consent even set? What is the rationale behind setting an age of consent?
    Consider that rationale when considering if this girl was groomed and taken advantage of by nasty people.
    Manny, you have completely confused the issues.

    The question raised is about the ability of a 15 year old to make conscious decisions.
    To understand right and wrong under the cultural context of her society.

    YOU decided to bring the age of consent into the argument to justify your viewpoint.

    If the girl was raped (in GB) then the age of consent would be a defining issue.
    But she wasn't and she didn't. She married a man, a Dutch National in another country more then a decade older.
    It is what it is.

    Hugh Cow is correct, you're hanging onto a strawman argument which doesn't wash.
    It's neither valid, nor applicable. It has no legal application (as the GB Gov't has established) nor moral application.

    You can keep pissing into the wind if you wish, but there very few in the debate standing behind you.

    Just saying like.
    “Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago”

  24. #124
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    a bit harsh, but again she could be an undercover terrorist

    in France we have about 800 of those fuckers returning, they are all going to jail automatically

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    a bit harsh, but again she could be an undercover terrorist

    in France we have about 800 of those fuckers returning, they are all going to jail automatically
    Where they'll indoctrinate more.......

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