Thread: Oh, FFS ... UK schoolgirl who fled to join Islamic State 'wants to return home to Eng

Originally Posted by stroller

She still a British subject? There was talk of cancelling nationality years ago for those who joined IS, or was that in Germany, can't recall it now?

At the moment she is a European subject so lets get the family across to Yermany...

Can't you limit your ignorant drivel about EU matters to the Brexit thread, NumPrik?
There's a good boy.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

The family said it was concerned about Ms Begum's mental health and characterised her as having been groomed by Islamic State fighters.

This is right. A 15 yo girl's decision should not be a life sentence. I still think she should be "collateral damage" in the fight against ISIS propaganda and be made an example of, but the baby is innocent.
I think she should be allowed back, the baby put into social services care, and the silly, unfortunate girl imprisoned.

As I said before, if it was a white Christian girl that had been groomed, she would definitely be seen as a victim.

Originally Posted by Neverna

She will be allowed back into the UK. She just has to make her own way there first. And she'll likely get a nie cup of tea from Special Branch upon her arrival at Heathrow or Gatwick.

Let her back then try her under the sharia law she loves. If guilty that would mean banishment, amputation or Crucifixion, just for being a trouble maker.

I think it is important to consider the age she went and the amount of kids she allegedly have. It sounds like the was sold on as a sex slave.I wouldn't be at all surprised if ISIS killed the kids she gave birth to. She should be detained under the mental health act on arrival.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

"I think a lot of people should have sympathy towards me for everything I've been through," she said in an interview broadcast on Sunday (local time).

What's with the red highlighting and the smilie?

Originally Posted by stroller

What's with the red highlighting and the smilie?

Originally Posted by stroller

Originally Posted by David48atTD
"I think a lot of people should have sympathy towards me for everything I've been through," she said in an interview broadcast on Sunday (local time).

David, don't bother replying, do what you like until a real MOD pulls you up.

Originally Posted by britanicus

Let her back then try her under the sharia law she loves. If guilty that would mean banishment, amputation or Crucifixion, just for being a trouble maker.

Sharia law in the UK doesn't cover that.

^^ Mate, I don't have an issue with anyone on the Forum ... Strolls and I get on fine.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

"I think a lot of people should have sympathy towards me for everything I've been through," she said in an interview broadcast on Sunday (local time).

Originally Posted by stroller

What's with the red highlighting and the smilie?

I redded it because a lot of people skim an article and sometimes miss (what I consider) to be a salient point.

Shamima Begum is 19 now, so she's not a 'girl'.

Her statement of "I think a lot of people should have sympathy towards me for everything I've been through," shows a high level of entitlement.


Picking the statement apart ...

• "I think a lot of people" ... meaning the British people she turned her back on by leaving GB, flying to Syria to support ISIS ... the organisation that many people in GB intensely dislike/hate/have little or no connection with and is acknowledged as being hated by (most) Muslims.

• "should have sympathy" ... should? A demand. "Would have sympathy" ... would is closer to a supposition, but still not humble enough. "I hope" shows a level on contrition appropriate to her situation.

• "for everything I've been through" Couple of things. She alleges that she has lost 2 babies. I not that she didn't, but the facts, as she describes them are yet to be corroborated. further ... She insisted that witnessing shocking sights did not affect her: "Mostly it was a normal life in Raqqa, every now and then bombing and stuff." "When I saw my first severed head in a bin it didn't phase me at all."

How about this for a statement ...

I'm truly sorry for what happened. When I left England I was young and an Idealist and went to fight for something I believed in.
But now I realize I was wrong. ISIS is wrong ... but I fell for the promise.

When I lost my first child, my beautifull daughter when she was one and later my son when he was only 3 months old, the reality set in what a mess I'd gotten myself in.

Now I'm about to give birth to my 3rd child and I want my baby to grow up in a society which cares about him/her.
Sure, England is not perfect, but it's my England and I was wrong to turn my back on it when I was an impressionable 15 year old.

Who didn't make mistakes in their teens?

What I'm asking now is to be given a chance to raise my child in a society that cares about it.

OK, thanks. I understand what you mean now, Dave.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

How about this for a statement ...

As with your other stuff, a link would be great.

Originally Posted by David48atTD

How about this for a statement ...

Originally Posted by cyrille

As with your other stuff, a link would be great.

I'd love to display a link, but the Forum software corrupts the URL and changes it to XXX.XX

As for the suggested statement ... they are my words.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

It seems that she has given birth to the child, and it probably won't be considered a British child or have the rights of a British child.

Jeez, tough club to join. No jus soli* nor jus sanguinis*?

edit: oh I see, the UK has jus sanguinis, but with restrictions.

*jus soli - "right of the soil" birthright citizenship based on birth in a country

*Jus sanguinis - citizenship inherited from parents

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

It seems that she has given birth to the child, and it probably won't be considered a British child or have the rights of a British child.

She however, is a British citizen, cannot be left stateless under international law, and if she makes it to a UK border then is entitled to enter; at which point she will likely be arrested and investigated, child taken into care, etc.

Lawyer on a talk show said the mother's Brit then so is the child.

As an aside, some idiots were ranting that the gov should charter a plane to pick them up.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

It seems that she has given birth to the child, and it probably won't be considered a British child or have the rights of a British child.

She however, is a British citizen

If the mother is British (and not "British by descent"), the child would more than likley be considered British.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

This is right. A 15 yo girl's decision should not be a life sentence. I still think she should be "collateral damage" in the fight against ISIS propaganda and be made an example of, but the baby is innocent.
I think she should be allowed back, the baby put into social services care, and the silly, unfortunate girl imprisoned.

As I said before, if it was a white Christian girl that had been groomed, she would definitely be seen as a victim.

Many groomed white Christian girls were for years considered troublesome by other white and not so white Christians and non-Christians.

What if she was a few months older and sixteen when she left, old enough to drive and have sex and soon to vote, would that make a huge difference? And let's face it she was gone for several years, way beyond 16 and legally responsible for her own actions. Went wrong for her, shit happens, but she is not the victim, shouldn't be portrayed as one, and while there's no avoiding the child as a victim it's not the gov's responsibility to ensure that parents act in the best interests of their offspring, which is subjective to the absurd notion that she may have done just that.

You’re automatically a British citizen if you were born outside the UK and all of the following apply:

* you were born on or after 1 July 2006
* your mother or father was a British citizen when you were born
* your British parent could pass on their citizenship to you


Your British parent could pass on their citizenship to you if they were one of the following:

* born or adopted in the UK
* given citizenship after applying for it in their own right (not based on having a British parent)
* working as a Crown servant when you were born (for example in the diplomatic service, overseas civil service or armed forces)

https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship...er-1-july-2006

Originally Posted by britanicus

Let her back then try her under the sharia law she loves. If guilty that would mean banishment, amputation or Crucifixion, just for being a trouble maker.

Don't be ridiculous, and your first post, must deserve some sort of award for being so far out of touch.

Regarding the child's citizenship... I agree it's unclear, but the child would not be stateless because it was born in a state (Syria? Turkey?), and the mother effectively gave up her citizenship by joining ISIS (a self-claimed state), but will be returned to the UK because she cannot be made stateless. So we will see, but the discussions I read/watched all suggested the child will not be a British citizen because the mother gave up her citizenship (she'll only be allowed back into the UK because under international law she cannot be made stateless) and the child is not stateless.

In what way did she legally give up her British citizenship, Betty?

^ & ^^ I am not sure. Just passing on parts of an explanation that I heard.

Even though she married a Dutch guy initially, I'm not sure whether he was the father of one or all of her children; she appears to have been 'passed around' somewhat hence the father may be Syrian, Turkish, other. Also, the bits and pieces of info from the article and/or other sources have not been collaborated thus far.

I suspect that more details will come out in time, and until that point we won't know about the child's status. We do know that she is British and cannot be made stateless thus if she finds her way back to the UK then she will be let in.

There's lots more of these cases, male and female, some of the individuals involved have dual-citizenship and thus Britain doesn't have the sole legal obligation; we will see what happens.

Mark Ramprakash seems to me to be the more level-headed in this Twitter stoush.