1. #2801
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    Every pundit on the right points out that Hillary was showing the same advantage over trump on 2016 and she lost , so why couldn't the polls be as wrong now?
    The answer is obvious to anyone with half a brain, The polls were not wrong, they opinions were changed in the last couple of weeks of the campaign to a degree significant enough to change the outcome by the Comey surprise.
    Hillary won the popular vote as predicted but lost the electoral college because she lost many states by less than 1%, unless one contents that the Comey surprise had no affect what so ever, we would be talking about President Hillarys reelection now.
    So unless trump is depending on another Comey surprise trump better hope on a different miracle.
    And trump knows it. He did not fire his campaign manager with less than six months remaining in the campaign because he was winning so much he got tired of winning.
    Last edited by Buckaroo Banzai; 19-07-2020 at 06:11 PM.
    The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.

  2. #2802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    ...won the popular vote as predicted but lost the electoral college...
    So, why to bother over 2 years with all the election comedy... (other - not so developed countries - do it over weekend)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    So, why to bother over 2 years with all the election comedy... (other - not so developed countries - do it over weekend)
    Exactly. As long as the electoral college exists why even bother with a popular vote. It didn't matter last time. Hillary won the election by 3 million votes. If there was no electoral college She would be president (for better or worse).
    The electoral college makes a farce of the whole 'democratic' system.
    That needs to change. (I did recently read somewhere that there are moves afoot to require the electoral college to vote along the lines of the popular vote in that state.)
    If we stop testing right now wed have very few cases, if any. Donald J Trump.

  4. #2804
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    As long as the electoral college exists why even bother with a popular vote.

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    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    I did recently read somewhere that there are moves afoot to require the electoral college to vote along the lines of the popular vote in that state.
    jesus fucking wept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    So, why to bother over 2 years with all the election comedy... (other - not so developed countries - do it over weekend)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    Exactly. As long as the electoral college exists why even bother with a popular vote. It didn't matter last time. Hillary won the election by 3 million votes. If there was no electoral college She would be president (for better or worse).
    The electoral college makes a farce of the whole 'democratic' system.
    That needs to change. (I did recently read somewhere that there are moves afoot to require the electoral college to vote along the lines of the popular vote in that state.)
    I was not making any value judgments on they system I was simply commenting on on the events that led to the outcome of 2016 and how this cycle events are different. I agree that the electoral system in the US is a joke, it takes too long, and costs too much . Politicians spend most of their time getting reelected rather than doing the job they were elected to do.
    IMO term limits would help mitigate that dynamic.
    As far as the electoral college is concerned, that's a different and complex issue. If it was not for the electoral college and popular vote was the only concern, no politician would ever campaign outside major population centers, and pander mostly to big city and large state issues. Who would take time to travel to Wyoming and spend time and resources for less than 200,000 votes or care about their issues. ?
    Rather than eliminating the electoral college , a better solution might be to reform it . but good luck for that happening since it would require a constitutional amendment and would require a two thirds of either the House and Senate or every state legislature.
    None of this will happen until there is an existential constitutional crisis or the people take to the streets with the pitchforks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    Well if the outcome of the electoral college vote doesn't reflect the popular vote, why have the popular vote at all? If it's supposed to counter any gerrymandering it doesn't work.
    I realise you're a bit thick but try to get your head around it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    jesus fucking wept.
    Seriously, if you've got nothing to say then say that FFS, otherwise contribute. If I'm wrong explain where and how if you can.I'm not American so I don't know the finer points of how it works, I'm just saying it as it appears to me in my admitted limited knowledge.
    I never knew about it untill 2016 when a big fuss was made over the fact that some electors voted contrary to the popular vote in their district swinging the election in Trumps favour. I do remember reading that electors were expected to vote alog the lines of their district and for them not to was unusual and one of the things I read more recently that was being considered as a change.
    Feel free to educate me or shut your stupid fucking gobs. RC an bfat.


    Americans have heard for years that the Electoral College is broken—just look at the presidential elections of 2000 and 2016, when the winner earned fewer votes nationally than the loser. We have also heard that, despite its flaws, this system won’t change anytime soon. Republicans generally oppose a national popular vote, which would both undermine them electorally and violate the Founding Fathers’ desire for the presidency to reflect America’s federalist structure as a union of separate states.


    But here is an argument for Electoral College reform that might actually appeal to conservatives: Simply put, the way we currently elect presidents would horrify the early American authors of the U.S. electoral system, as defined in the 12th Amendment.




    The drafters of that amendment, above all, wanted presidents to be elected according to the principle of majority rule. By the early 1800s, America had experimented four times with presidential elections, and had seen how the Founders’ original electoral system gave undue power to the minority party. In response, members of Congress devised a system—still federalist in nature—in which the winner of an Electoral College majority was supposed to have won majority support in the states.


    The problem? In the decades since, states have abandoned their commitment to majority rule. Candidates today can win all of a state’s Electoral College votes with simply a plurality of votes in that state—and that state, either alone or along with others where the same thing happens, can swing entire elections. In 2016, Donald Trump won all the electoral votes, totaling 101, in six states where he received less than 50 percent of the popular vote: Arizona, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. (Hillary Clinton won seven states this way.) Those 101 votes were one-third of the 304 Trump won overall—they were essential to his reaching an Electoral College majority of 270 and becoming president.


    How did America’s presidential elections go so far astray from the goals of the 12th Amendment? And can we go back?


    Understanding this deviation requires first going back to the origins of our current Electoral College system and examining what it was designed to accomplish. This history can also offer models for how states might change their rules in order to restore America’s commitment to majority rule.


    Principled constitutional originalists should be leading the call for this kind of reform—a reform that requires not a constitutional amendment but only changes in state law. In reality, the current system works to the detriment of both Republicans and Democrats. A candidate from either party easily could prevail again in a way that is inconsistent with the original intent of the Electoral College’s authors—and as soon as 2020.


    ***
    An Idea for Electoral College Reform That Both Parties Might Actually Like - POLITICO Magazine

  9. #2809
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    I wish Biden would choose Duckworth for VP.

    Duckworth emerges as contender for Biden running mate

    I would love for her to be president some day.


    Sen. Kamala Harris would be my choice

    Kamala Harris – Wikipedia
    Last edited by HermantheGerman; 20-07-2020 at 11:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    Well if the outcome of the electoral college vote doesn't reflect the popular vote, why have the popular vote at all? If it's supposed to counter any gerrymandering it doesn't work.
    I realise you're a bit thick but try to get your head around it.
    It does reflect the popular vote of that state but not the popular vote of the whole country.
    It is proportional representation.
    What we need to understand is that when the constitution was created the country had just fought a war to alleviate "taxation without representation" without a proportional system the big population states, with their big popular vote would have dominated the political process, Without an electoral college to ensure proportional representation where all states would have a voice, no new territory would want to join a union where it would not have a voice, and the United States would never had existed.

  11. #2811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    I do remember reading that electors were expected to vote alog the lines of their district and for them not to was unusual and one of the things I read more recently that was being considered as a change.
    Supreme Court just settled it a couple of weeks ago. "Faithless voters" can be challenged by their respective states.

    Supreme Court Rules States May Curb '''Faithless Electors''' in Electoral College - The New York Times

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    2020 Presidential Election Forecast Maps

    Some interesting stuff here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_Smith View Post
    Supreme Court just settled it a couple of weeks ago. "Faithless voters" can be challenged by their respective states.

    Supreme Court Rules States May Curb '''Faithless Electors''' in Electoral College - The New York Times
    Thanks. Hey reacharound, see this? where's your facepalm now dumbass.

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    Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, the Electoral College, needs to be trashed.

    Let the state popular vote prevail.

    Mostly popular vote prevails anyway with these 5 exceptions:

    Five times a candidate has won the popular vote and lost the election. Andrew Jackson in 1824 (to John Quincy Adams); Samuel Tilden in 1876 (to Rutherford B. Hayes); Grover Cleveland in 1888 (to Benjamin Harrison); Al Gore in 2000 (to George W. Bush); Hillary Clinton in 2016 (to Donald J. Trump).
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

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    Just wait until Sleepy Joe actually starts campaigning and makes it a close race again. He can't ride the Lincoln Projects coattails forever.

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    ^Especially, when he promotes: "We choose truth over facts."

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    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Just wait until Sleepy Joe actually starts campaigning and makes it a close race again. He can't ride the Lincoln Projects coattails forever.
    As soon as he opens his mouth Trump will move up.
    I can see Sleepy Joe in a role in "Walking Dead".


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    Yeah because "Sleepy Joe" is just utterly monstrous compared to an mentally, ethically and emotionally ill-equipped man-child who uses a secret police force to round up and detain citizens and refuses to go on record stating he'd accept election defeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    ^Especially, when he promotes: "We choose truth over facts."
    Pray tell, how is that relevant to to the prior post?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Yeah because "Sleepy Joe" is just utterly monstrous compared to an mentally, ethically and emotionally ill-equipped man-child who uses a secret police force to round up and detain citizens and refuses to go on record stating he'd accept election defeat.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    Isn't it odd that a man who's made some mistakes is somehow considered by some to be less qualified than Trump.

    Amazing. To wit:

    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Just wait until Sleepy Joe actually starts campaigning and makes it a close race again. He can't ride the Lincoln Projects coattails forever.
    So, you think he's riding the coat tails of a series of ads, is sleepy (how very Trump-esque of you) and will lose supporters.

    And here I thought chico was a drip

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    A decent human being vs a repugnant narcissistic liar. Seems quite an easy choice to me..

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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Just wait until Sleepy Joe actually starts campaigning and makes it a close race again.
    He is not going too. He will not hold any rallies at all. They plan on him to continue to lie low and stay out of the limelight for two reasons. It does not give the orange moron any ammunition to attack him with and two it forces the orange moron front and center in the news cycle all the time giving him ample time to continue to make himself look worse and worse. It really is a brilliant strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cujo View Post
    Well if the outcome of the electoral college vote doesn't reflect the popular vote, why have the popular vote at all?
    You can not have the electoral college without a general election and so there will always have to be a popular vote. It really is amazing just how dim you regularly prove yourself to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    there will always have to be a popular vote. It really is amazing just how dim you regularly prove yourself to be.
    exactly right on both counts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Just wait until Sleepy Joe actually starts campaigning and makes it a close race again.
    such a pathetic trump lemming....moronically repeating his lines.


    i heard someone the other day say that "biden has never been a precision instrument" and it's true....he's been making gaffes for years. but he was still elected to the senate for decades and was on a twice winning presidential ticket. his strengths lie elsewhere....he's extremely knowledgeable of foreign affairs and is able to express genuine empathy......but most importantly....people like him.

    the biden campaign is doing exactly what it should be doing.....ensuring that this is a referendum election and not a choice election.

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    Short of him coming out and declaring that he is partial to bouts of necrophilia with sheep carcasses I really can't see how any logically thinking rational adult can't see at this point that Biden (whatever his other non-dead sheep fucking faults are) as preferable to Trump by an order in the magnitude of thousands. And even if he did come out with such a revelation...

  25. #2825
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    necrophilia with sheep carcasses
    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    non-dead sheep fucking
    You are such a Kiwi . . .



    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    he's extremely knowledgeable of foreign affairs and is able to express genuine empathy......but most importantly....people like him.
    This is the crux of the issue. He is a Mensch, like Obama and Clinton and even the Bush duo.

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