Thread: American coup in Venezuela

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

It's admirable that you don't even attempt to hide that this horseshit was written by Putin pals Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen.

Should get them a tidy bonus in their RT paypackets.

Remember the golden rule folks, anyone who challenges Harry's world view must be a Chinese/Russian stooge...

Originally Posted by SKkin

That's not my angle. I just think it should be none of US business. Like this:

It's interesting that you think just because China doesn't get involved in military action that it doesn't interfere in other countries.

It's been intervening in other countries for years, ask Cambodia, Laos, Venezuela, heaven knows how many African countries how much they owe China and what China is parasitically gorging on in their lands as a result. Oil, Gold, Fish, minerals, you name it.

This is first case where China might have realised that it's "not intervened" too much.

Originally Posted by foobar

Remember the golden rule folks, anyone who challenges Harry's world view must be a Chinese/Russian stooge...

Only foobar would think that being an employee of Russia state media does not make you a Russian stooge.

Sorry,

Only a fucking idiot would think that being an employee of Russia state media does not make you a Russian stooge.

Originally Posted by uncle junior

20 tons of Venezuelan gold packed up on a plane headed to Russia ......or Dubai....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/venez...022753684.html

I can see the UAE buying gold for cash. Not Dubai though. Scabby Dhabi. Didn't spend a lot on players so they have some left over.

Lima Group opposes military intervention in Venezuela

A group of Latin American countries that includes Canada and that is largely opposed to the Venezuelan government has nevertheless expressed opposition to any military intervention in Venezuela, amid speculation that the United States is preparing to invade the country to overthrow the government of President Nicolas Maduro.

Peru’s Foreign Minister Nestor Popolizio said on Tuesday that the members of the Lima Group — a 14-country bloc that includes Canada — “do not support any military intervention in Venezuela.”

---

Lima Group calls urgent meeting on Venezuela crisis

The Lima Group has also scheduled an urgent meeting next week in Canada to discuss the Venezuelan crisis.

According to Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland, foreign ministers from the group will meet on Monday in Ottawa “to discuss what steps we can take to support interim president Juan Guaido and the people of Venezuela.”

Freeland accused Maduro of creating “an economic, political, and humanitarian crisis” in his country.

She did not specify whether Mexico — which has refused to support Guaido against the elected government of Maduro — would attend. Mexico’s new government has said it will not take sides and says supporting Guaido is a violation of Venezuela’s sovereignty.

Mexico has also urged the Lima Group to refrain from interfering in Venezuela’s internal affairs.

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/...y-intervention

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

It's interesting that you think just because China doesn't get involved in military action that it doesn't interfere in other countries

I didn't mean I thought that was completely true. I meant I wish that was US foreign policy and that it was adhered to. If I remember correctly, that's what George Washington counseled in his Farewell Address.

While, then, every part of our country thus feels an immediate and particular interest in union, all the parts combined cannot fail to find in the united mass of means and efforts greater strength, greater resource, proportionably greater security from external danger, a less frequent interruption of their peace by foreign nations; and, what is of inestimable value, they must derive from union an exemption from those broils and wars between themselves, which so frequently afflict neighboring countries not tied together by the same governments, which their own rival ships alone would be sufficient to produce, but which opposite foreign alliances, attachments, and intrigues would stimulate and embitter. Hence, likewise, they will avoid the necessity of those overgrown military establishments which, under any form of government, are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty. In this sense it is that your union ought to be considered as a main prop of your liberty, and that the love of the one ought to endear to you the preservation of the other.

. . .

The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe[or South America] has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people under an efficient government. the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe[South America], entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European[South American] ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them.

Taking care always to keep ourselves by suitable establishments on a respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies.

Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand; neither seeking nor granting exclusive favors or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing (with powers so disposed, in order to give trade a stable course, to define the rights of our merchants, and to enable the government to support them) conventional rules of intercourse, the best that present circumstances and mutual opinion will permit, but temporary, and liable to be from time to time abandoned or varied, as experience and circumstances shall dictate; constantly keeping in view that it is folly in one nation to look for disinterested favors from another; that it must pay with a portion of its independence for whatever it may accept under that character; that, by such acceptance, it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion, which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard.

In offering to you, my countrymen, these counsels of an old and affectionate friend, I dare not hope they will make the strong and lasting impression I could wish; that they will control the usual current of the passions, or prevent our nation from running the course which has hitherto marked the destiny of nations. But, if I may even flatter myself that they may be productive of some partial benefit, some occasional good; that they may now and then recur to moderate the fury of party spirit, to warn against the mischiefs of foreign intrigue, to guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism; this hope will be a full recompense for the solicitude for your welfare, by which they have been dictated.

Avalon Project - Washington's Farewell Address 1796

Originally Posted by SKkin

That's not my angle. I just think it should be none of US business. Like this:



All of our interventions seem to lead to tears...tears from the countries where we intervene and from US taxpayers. Not to mention US military families who lose loved ones when the interventions turn into wars.


Did interference from us, in the past, in South America somehow lead to those two oppressive regimes in the first place? I wouldn't be surprised. Look what our interference in Iran in the 1950s led to.

I agree with some of your points and the U.S involvement in supporting some of south americas worst dictators as well as its attempts in trying or suceeeding to remove regimes who were anti U.S. is frankly quite shameful. However it is not in south americas interest to have another unstable country in a region where internal wars and corrupt, dictatorial regimes have been rife.
Chavez's socialist dream is over, luckily for him he died before it eventually got into this position. Corruption a failure to diversify the economy away from oil under both Chavez and Maduro and a collapse of the oil price has seen the countries GDP collapse by 50% and inflation spiral out of control. Anyone who thinks this was a secret U.S. plot is either dreaming or does not have a clue on economics.
It does say something about a President whose only support comes from a totaltarian regime that it owes an estimated $19 billion+ and is now making interest only payments to and a pseudo dictatorship that has sold them over a billion dollars worth of arms and is awaiting a $100 million debt repayment by the Venezuelan govt by the end of march. Any change in government that might not honour these agreements would be a worry to these 2 dictatorships.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

collapse of the oil price

Venezuela and its oil may have got caught up in intrigue aimed elsewhere. And now the US sees a crisis there it doesn't want let go to waste. What better time for regime change? Chavez and his successor Maduro have been a pain in the US ass for quite some time now, no?


From 2014:
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Pric...il-Prices.html

“What is the reason for the United States and some U.S. allies wanting to drive down the price of oil?” Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro asked rhetorically in October. “To harm Russia.”

Many believe the oil price plunge is the result of deliberate and well-planned collusion on the part of the United States and Saudi Arabia to punish Russia and Iran for supporting the murderous Assad regime in Syria.

Originally Posted by SKkin

“What is the reason for the United States and some U.S. allies wanting to drive down the price of oil?” Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro asked rhetorically in October. “To harm Russia.”

Many believe the oil price plunge is the result of deliberate and well-planned collusion on the part of the United States and Saudi Arabia to punish Russia and Iran for supporting the murderous Assad regime in Syria.

As I've already stated, the reason the oil price is being artificially kept low is that Russia and Saudi Arabia have agreed to keep production up.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKCN1MD0Y8

There is a lot more to the global economy than oil producers; a high oil price affects everyone.

Russia is happy with its lot.

In other words, Maduro is lying. His countrys oil revenue hasn't tanked because of the oil price; it's tanked because he's fucked up his country's oil industry and mortgaged what little they are still producing mainly to the Chinkies.

The big loser when the leader of the down trodden masses, Maduro gets the boot will be Cuba.
The Cuban commos will be blaming the Imperialist Capitalist running dogs when the free oil runs out.
Will piss them off after they spent all that time and manpower running Maduro's security services and then it comes to naught.
Even the symbol of the embargo,those old Yank tanks spluttering around Havana will be grounded, sorry no petrol senor.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

In other words, Maduro is lying. His countrys oil revenue hasn't tanked because of the oil price; it's tanked because he's fucked up his country's oil industry and mortgaged what little they are still producing mainly to the Chinkies.

Maybe so...but something I didn't think of last night, was that even before oil prices collapsed there were US sanctions on Venezuela. Does anyone remember when and why US first put sanctions on them? Without looking, from what I remember, it was either Baby Bush or Obomba who did it...and it had something to do with the identity of one of Venezuela's main customers. Pretty sure Chavez was still in power when US sanctions were first put on Venezuela.

Anyway...I suppose all of these sanctions had nothing whatsoever to do with the current state of the Venezuelan oil industry.

Originally Posted by SKkin

Anyway...I suppose all of these sanctions had nothing whatsoever to do with the current state of the Venezuelan oil industry.

Considering the relevant ones were only applied four days ago - no.

.....

01/23/19 White House Statement From President Donald J. Trump Recognizing Venezuelan National Assembly President Juan Guaido as the Interim President of Venezuela
01/12/19 Ensuring Venezuela's Constitutional Order and Safety of Elected Officials; Deputy Spokesperson Robert Palladino; Washington, DC
01/08/19 Treasury Targets Venezuela Currency Exchange Network Scheme Generating Billions of Dollars for Corrupt Regime Insiders
12/18/18 Venezuela Fact Sheet
11/02/18 Remarks by National Security Advisor Ambassador John R. Bolton on the Administration's Policies in Latin America
09/25/18 The United States Imposes Sanctions on Venezuelan Individuals and Entities; Office of the Spokesperson; Washington, DC
09/25/18 Treasury Targets Venezuelan President Maduro's Inner Circle and Proceeds of Corruption in the United States
05/18/18 Treasury Targets Influential Former Venezuelan Official and His Corruption Network
03/19/18 Treasury Sanctions Four Current or Former Venezuelan Officials Associated with Economic Mismanagement and Corruption
01/05/18 Treasury Sanctions Four Venezuelan Government Officials Associated with Corruption and Oppression
11/09/17 Treasury Sanctions Ten Venezuelan Government Officials
08/09/17 Treasury Sanctions Eight Individuals Involved in Venezuela's Illegitimate Constituent Assembly
07/31/17 Treasury Sanctions the President of Venezuela
07/26/17 Treasury Sanctions 13 Current and Former Senior Officials of the Government of Venezuela
07/17/17 Statement from President Donald J. Trump
05/18/17 Treasury Sanctions Eight Members of Venezuela's Supreme Court of Justice
03/09/15 Statement by the White House Press Secretary on Venezuela
03/09/15 White House Fact Sheet: Venezuela Executive Order
12/18/14 Statement by the White House Press Secretary: Bills Signed into Law

Executive Orders

Executive Order 13850 of November 1, 2018 "Blocking Property of Additional Persons Contributing to the Situation in Venezuela"
Executive Order 13835 of May 21, 2018 “Prohibiting Certain Additional Transactions with Respect to Venezuela”
Executive Order 13827 of March 19, 2018 “Taking Additional Steps to Address the Situation in Venezuela”
Executive Order 13808 of August 24, 2017 “Imposing Additional Sanctions with Respect to the Situation in Venezuela”
Executive Order 13692 of March 8, 2015 “Blocking Property and Suspending Entry of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Venezuela”

Executive Order 13692 declares a national emergency with respect to the situation in Venezuela. The targeted sanctions in this Executive Order (E.O.) implement relevant provisions of the Venezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil Society Act of 2014 signed into law on December 18, 2014, and also provide sanctions authority that goes beyond the requirements of the legislation. The E.O. provides authority to target persons involved in or responsible for the erosion of human rights guarantees, persecution of political opponents, curtailment of press freedoms, use of violence and human rights violations and abuses in response to antigovernment protests, and arbitrary arrest and detention of antigovernment protestors, as well as significant public corruption by senior government officials in the country. E.O. 13692 does not target the people or economy of Venezuela.

Executive Order 13808, among other things, prohibits transactions by a United States person or within the United States related to: certain new debt of Petroleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA); certain new debt or new equity of the Government of Venezuela; existing bonds issued by the Government of Venezuela prior to August 25, 2017; and dividend payments or other distributions of profits to the Government of Venezuela from any entity owned or controlled by the Government of Venezuela. In addition, E.O. 13808 prohibits the purchase by a U.S. person or within the United States of most securities from the Government of Venezuela.

Executive Order 13827 prohibits all transactions related to, provision of financing for, and other dealings in any digital currency, digital coin, or digital token issued by, for, or on behalf of the Government of Venezuela on or after January 9, 2018 wherein U.S. jurisdiction is implicated. The Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) simultaneously issued frequently asked questions (#559-563) clarifying that compliance obligations are the same, regardless of whether a transaction is denominated in digital currency or a traditional fiat currency. OFAC also clarified that U.S. persons and persons otherwise subject to OFAC jurisdiction that facilitate or engage in online commerce or process transactions using digital currency are responsible for ensuring that they do not engage in unauthorized transactions prohibited by U.S. sanctions.

Executive Order 13835, among other things, prohibits transactions by a United States person or within the United States related to: the purchase of any debt owed to the Government of Venezuela (including PDVSA), such as but not limited to accounts receivable; any debt owed to the Government of Venezuela that is pledged as collateral after May 21, 2018; and the sale, transfer, assignment, or pledging as collateral by the Government of Venezuela of any equity interest in any entity in which it has a 50 percent or greater ownership interest. E.O. 13835 closes another avenue for corruption by denying the Venezuelan regime the ability to earn money by selling off public assets at “fire sale” prices at the expense of the Venezuelan people.

Executive Order 13850, among other things, authorizes the imposition of blocking sanctions on persons determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary, to operate in the gold sector of the Venezuelan economy or in any other sector of the Venezuelan economy as may be determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State. Moreover, it authorizes the imposition of blocking sanctions on persons determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State, to be responsible for or complicit in, or to have directly or indirectly engaged in, any transactions involving deceptive practices or corruption and the Government of Venezuela or projects or programs administered by the Government of Venezuela, or to be an immediate adult family member of such a person.

https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/venezuela/

Originally Posted by foobar

12/18/14 Statement by the White House Press Secretary: Bills Signed into Law

From 2011
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2...inst-venezuela

The hyperlinked Press Release has been moved though...

All very thrilling I'm sure, but the one you should note is the one that actually stops them selling oil to US refiners.

Never mind eh, they can use that 500mpbd to pay off the chinkies quicker.

Another subtle hint to Chavismo.

Venezuelan general deserts Nicolas Maduro in highest ranking military defection to hit regime

A general from the Venezuelan air force has announced he no longer recognises Nicolas Maduro as the country's president, in what appears to be the highest ranking military defection to hit the regime.

In a video circulating on social media on Saturday, General Francisco Esteban Yanez Rodriguez says he has disavowed the "dictatorial" authority of Mr Maduro and now recognises Juan Guaido, the self-declared interim president, as Venezuela's leader.

Wearing military uniform, Gen. Yanez identifies himself as director of strategic planning in the high command of the Venezuelan air force. His role and identity corresponds with that listed on the force's website.

The general claims that 90 per cent of the country's armed forces "are not with the dictator, they are with the people of Venezuela".

"The transition to democracy is imminent," he says, urging Venezuelans to come out peacefully into the streets in support of Mr Guaido.

Gen. Yanez also calls on members of the armed forces not to protect Mr Maduro, saying that if they are afraid of backing Mr Guaido openly due to internal threats, they should "stay at home".

"The people have already suffered enough", he says, describing repression and deaths from hunger and lack of medicines. "Do not repress (them) any more."

Mr Maduro has two planes on standby to flee the country, the general claims, adding "he should go".

"The time for democracy is now," he concludes.

It is not clear when or where the two minute video was filmed, nor where Gen. Yanez is now.

The defection is hugely significant as until now, the high command has remained outwardly steadfast in its loyalty to Mr Maduro.

On January 21, a small group of soldiers in the Cotiza neighbourhood of Caracas announced that they were rising up against Mr Maduro's government, calling on the people to take to the streets. However the rebellion was swiftly put down.

After Mr Guaido, head of the opposition-controlled National Assembly, swore himself in as president in front of a Caracas rally on January 23, General Vladimir Padrino Lopez, the country's defence minister, and other members of the top brass, took to the airwaves to pledge their allegiance to Mr Maduro.

The Venezuelan defence attache in Washington released a video last week saying he now supported Mr Guaido. But Gen. Yanez is the first active general to defect.

The United States, Canada and a host of Latin American countries have recognised Mr Guaido as interim president, saying that presidential elections last May were not free and fair.

Several European countries, including the UK, have given Mr Maduro a deadline of midnight on Sunday to call fresh elections, saying they will also recognise Mr Guaido as leader if he does not do so.

Mr Guaido has called for supporters to protest in Caracas on Saturday, while a rival rally celebrating the 20th anniversary of the rise to power of Hugo Chavez, Mr Maduro's predecessor, is also to be held.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...king-military/

Smells like CIA involvement

Originally Posted by uncle junior

Smells like CIA involvement

Smells like someone who hasn't got most of his snout in the trough.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Several European countries, including the UK, have given Mr Maduro a deadline of midnight on Sunday to call fresh elections,

Didn't they forget that their friend dangerous Mr. Putin can manage the election as he wants? Much more easier with the friend Maduro than with Hillary...

Originally Posted by uncle junior

Smells like CIA involvement

you think? probably have a suitcase full of cash for those generals to defect

The US has the best interests of the Venezuelan people at heart.

What a disgrace...in a long line of them.

Trust the likes of these people...they, with the aid of the media, would never lie.




Your Complete Guide to the N.Y. Times’ Support of U.S.-Backed Coups in Latin America
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/yo...latin-america/

There’s a familiar script: The CIA and its U.S. corporate partners come in, wage economic warfare, fund and arm the opposition, then the target of this operation is blamed. This, of course, isn’t to say there isn’t merit to some of the objections being raised by The New York Times—whether it be Chile in 1973 or Venezuela in 2019. But that’s not really the point. The reason the CIA and U.S. military and its corporate partisans historically target governments in Latin America is because those governments are hostile to U.S. capital and strategic interests, not because they are undemocratic. So while the points the Times makes about illiberalism may sometimes be true, they’re mostly a non sequitur when analyzing the reality of what’s unfolding.

The reason the CIA and U.S. military and its corporate partisans historically target governments in Latin America is because those governments are hostile to U.S. capital and strategic interests

Kept selling oil to the US - hardly hostile to capital interests.

I suppose there are strategic interests if China decides it wants to take Venezuela's ports over, Sri Lanka-style.

the US is using their only effective WMD to change the world as it sees it fit, the USD and financial sanctions

it's hard to import food when you can't even wire the money to buy it

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Kept selling oil to the US - hardly hostile to capital interests.

I suppose there are strategic interests if China decides it wants to take Venezuela's ports over, Sri Lanka-style.

Happy CNY Harry.