Thread: American coup in Venezuela

Originally Posted by OhOh

An amusing and pointed piece:

Why must Venezuela be destroyed?

Millions have fled the country, people are starving, hospitals have run out of doctors and medicine, the national oil infrastructure is in tatters, etc. etc.

Do you live in a fucking cave or something?

^So, why not to get a new president, the new guy, who nobody knows (just few people in a "friendly" country, please no names)...

Afterwards, all the millions of starving people will come back, the hospitals will be overflown by doctors and medicine.

And at the end of the day, the oil will flow at last...

Yes, let's try and keep the world in the dark eh, Chavismo?

Venezuelan authorities have detained five foreign journalists covering the standoff with opposition forces seeking the ouster of President Nicolas Maduro.


Two others, from Chile, were deported as the crisis spilled over to hit journalists covering the oil-rich but economically crippled nation's latest taste of crisis.

Two of the detained are from France, two from Colombia and one from Spain.

The latter three worked for the Spanish national news agency Efe and had all come from Colombia to cover the growing turmoil.

Their detention was reported by the Efe bureau chief in Venezuela, Nelida Fernandez.

<snip>

Protests against the Maduro government have left around 40 dead and 850 have been arrested since they started on 21 January, according to UN figures.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0...a-journalists/

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Afterwards, all the millions of starving people will come back, the hospitals will be overflown by doctors and medicine.

And at the end of the day, the oil will flow at last...

Comrade, maybe foreign investment will come back if the scoundrels who nationalized the oil industry, lined their own pockets and put opposition leaders in jail are booted out of power.

Venezuela's opposition had clandestine meetings with military: Guaido

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Venezuela’s opposition has had clandestine meetings with members of the country’s military and security forces, Venezuela’s self-proclaimed interim president, Juan Guaido, said in an opinion piece published on Wednesday.

“The transition will require support from key military contingents. We have had clandestine meetings with members of the armed forces and the security forces,” Guaido said in an opinion piece published by the New York Times. “The military’s withdrawal of support from Mr. (President Nicolas) Maduro is crucial to enabling a change in government.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...ws%29&&rpc=401

Originally Posted by Humbert

Comrade, maybe foreign investment will come back if the scoundrels who nationalized the oil industry, lined their own pockets and put opposition leaders in jail are booted out of power.

I speak about the starving people and you speak about the foreign investment. That surely will help to the millions of the starving people as it had helped in the Latin America for the last 100 years.
That's why also the closest neigbour and brother in trade NAFTA Mexico is so excited about the "foreign help to take down the dictator".

BTW, I am not your comrade... (if you know what comrade means)

Originally Posted by Klondyke

get a new president, the new guy, who nobody knows

But he was known...in all the right places.

The Making of Juan Guaidó: How the US Regime Change Laboratory Created Venezuela’s Coup Leader

Before the fateful day of January 22, fewer than one in five Venezuelans had heard of Juan Guaidó. Only a few months ago, the 35-year-old was an obscure character in a politically marginal far-right group closely associated with gruesome acts of street violence. Even in his own party, Guaidó had been a mid-level figure in the opposition-dominated National Assembly, which is now held under contempt according to Venezuela’s constitution.

But after a single phone call from from US Vice President Mike Pence, Guaidó proclaimed himself president of Venezuela. Anointed as the leader of his country by Washington, a previously unknown political bottom-dweller was vaulted onto the international stage as the US-selected leader of the nation with the world’s largest oil reserves.

Echoing the Washington consensus, the New York Times editorial board hailed Guaidó as a “credible rival” to Maduro with a “refreshing style and vision of taking the country forward.” The Bloomberg News editorial board applauded him for seeking “restoration of democracy” and the Wall Street Journal declared him “a new democratic leader.” Meanwhile, Canada, numerous European nations, Israel, and the bloc of right-wing Latin American governments known as the Lima Group recognized Guaidó as the legitimate leader of Venezuela.

While Guaidó seemed to have materialized out of nowhere, he was, in fact, the product of more than a decade of assiduous grooming by the US government’s elite regime change factories. Alongside a cadre of right-wing student activists, Guaidó was cultivated to undermine Venezuela’s socialist-oriented government, destabilize the country, and one day seize power. Though he has been a minor figure in Venezuelan politics, he had spent years quietly demonstrated his worthiness in Washington’s halls of power.

“Juan Guaidó is a character that has been created for this circumstance,” Marco Teruggi, an Argentinian sociologist and leading chronicler of Venezuelan politics, told The Grayzone. “It’s the logic of a laboratory – Guaidó is like a mixture of several elements that create a character who, in all honesty, oscillates between laughable and worrying.”

Juan better not forget this:

While he waits on direct assistance, Guaidó remains what he has always been – a pet project of cynical outside forces. “It doesn’t matter if he crashes and burns after all these misadventures,” Sequera said of the coup figurehead. “To the Americans, he is expendable.”

full article at link...

Originally Posted by SKkin

But he was known...in all the right places.

The Making of Juan Guaidó: How the US Regime Change Laboratory Created Venezuela’s Coup Leader

It's admirable that you don't even attempt to hide that this horseshit was written by Putin pals Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen.

Should get them a tidy bonus in their RT paypackets.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

It's admirable that you don't even attempt to hide that this horseshit was written by Putin pals Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen.

We do not believe this horseshit, we believe another horseshit...

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

by Putin pals Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen.

Who isn't a Putin pal these days?

Originally Posted by SKkin

Who isn't a Putin pal these days?

Dan Cohen is literally an RT employee you mug. And his pal Blumenthal is an RT "contributor".

Oh sorry, did you not know? So you were just going with the "which is the biggest anti-US hatchet job" article?

A quite realistic piece from the NYT explaining why Guiado's opposition may have to make some unpalatable concessions to get military snouts out of Maduro's trough.

Venezuela’s Best Path to Democracy? Pay Off the Military


It was surely no accident that on Jan. 23, the Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaidó declared himself the country’s legitimate president. That challenge to President Nicolás Maduro occurred on the anniversary of a military coup in 1958 that ended a decade of dictatorship and ushered in an era of Venezuelan democracy and economic progress.


Venezuela’s military has long been a kingmaker at defining democratic moments. In addition to the 1958 coup, it helped to install a lion of Venezuelan democracy, Rómulo Betancourt, in the presidency in 1945 and was central to returning Hugo Chávez to office after he was displaced in a coup in 2002. That helps explain why Mr. Guaidó has appealed to the military by, for instance, persuading the National Assembly to pass an amnesty law for those who act “in favor of the restitution of democracy in Venezuela.”


Venezuela is not exceptional. In many countries, the military has played a critical role in establishing democracy. To be sure, it often exacts a steep price in the process, pushing for economic and institutional distortions to democracy that hamper its responsiveness to the will of the majority. In countries like Chile, Indonesia, Myanmar and Pakistan, coaxing powerful and entrenched militaries from power has required not just amnesty guarantees but also carving out economic domains for them to run autonomously and in many cases shunting profits directly to the military without any congressional authority to the contrary. Often these perks are then protected politically through constitutional provisions that grant outgoing authoritarians disproportionate political power or make the transition deal very difficult to overturn.


In Venezuela, Mr. Guaidó’s outreach, at least initially, was not persuasive: The defense minister, Vladimir Padrino López, flanked by Venezuela’s top military brass, publicly cast the military’s lot with Mr. Maduro. He proclaimed that Mr. Guaidó’s declaration represented a grave danger to national sovereignty and public order and that the military would remain loyal to the Constitution.


But that might not be the end of the story. Behind closed doors, the military may be waiting for a better offer. Under Hugo Chávez and then Mr. Maduro, the Venezuelan military has become deeply involved in a host of lucrative economic activities. Mr. Chávez handed it the reins of Venezuela’s crown jewel, the state-run oil company PDVSA. It controls the country’s ports, presiding over imports and exports. It controls contracts for public housing projects and mining and oil services concessions. And it reportedly controls valuable drug-smuggling routes, money-laundering outfits and other illicit trades. This has generated immense profits for the top military brass even as rank-and-file soldiers struggle with hunger and have deserted in large numbers.


If Mr. Maduro goes, the military’s economic position is at risk. New elections may bring to power an opposition that seeks to curtail the military’s power. Against this perilous backdrop, Mr. Guaidó’s promise of amnesty is hardly enough.


It took far more than amnesty for the military to hand over power in Chile, a transition Mr. Guaidó himself has discussed. Gen. Augusto Pinochet’s 1980 Constitution, which guided the Chilean transition to democracy in 1989 — and still operates today in a modified form — granted the commanders in chief of the armed forces and the national police permanent offices that allowed dismissal only by the president upon agreement from a National Security Council, which itself was majority dominated by the armed forces. Ten percent of copper revenues, one of Chile’s most valuable exports, was automatically allocated to the military budget. This was combined with constitutionally protected amnesties, direct positions in the Senate, a favorable electoral system and supermajoritarian thresholds for constitutional change.


In Myanmar, the military engineered a favorable Constitution and then passed a raft of legislation to protect its interests just before democratization. This included transferring manufacturing plants from the ministry of industry to the ministry of defense. The military’s chief conglomerate companies, the Myanmar Economic Corporation and Myanmar Economic Holdings Limited, route a vast portion of business, such as telecommunications and petroleum imports, directly into the hands of military officers who had ruled the country.


The arrangement also operates in Pakistan. Ruling military generals in recent decades grabbed up land, farms, housing operations and industrial operations and routed their ownership and operation through the ministry of defense. This setup has been protected through repeated transitions into and out of democracy. Pakistan’s military is now the country’s biggest business conglomerate.


The model of carving out autonomous economic fiefs and twinning it with political protection to coax the military from power is not without problems, as Myanmar and Pakistan demonstrate. An autonomous and powerful military that is rankled under democracy is more capable of stepping off the sidelines to re-establish dictatorship. And it can get its way more easily through merely threatening to do so.


While this model might seem unpalatable given the Venezuelan military’s recent past, it may present the most reasonable way forward toward democracy absent outside intervention. Furthermore, many countries — for example, Portugal, Spain, South Korea and Taiwan — have made full transitions to democracy through this route.


The path remains clear. The military has not yet arrested Mr. Guaidó. And Mr. Padrino has declared that the military will adhere to the Constitution. As it turns out, Venezuela has a sitting constituent assembly that Mr. Maduro convoked to defang the opposition-dominated National Assembly. So one way out for the military is to push Mr. Maduro aside and then appeal to the constituent assembly to draft provisions that protect the military while also calling new elections. This deal could be passed, and even voted on, by the parallel National Assembly.


This would return Venezuela to democracy. And while the opposition would not get everything it wanted, democracy would give it a newfound seat at the table and the chance to build a more just and equitable future — an option that is currently foreclosed under Mr. Maduro.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/30/o...ogin-smartlock

^^I know Max was in Russia working for some years.

As for Dan Cohen(RT Correspondent)...he can't be all bad.

Israeli Consulate in Boston to RT Journalist: You’re a Disgrace to Americans and Jews Everywhere
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pre...jews-1.6675728


What about The Independent, does Putin control that too?


Venezuela crisis: Former UN rapporteur says US sanctions are killing citizens
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8748201.html

The first UN rapporteur to visit Venezuela for 21 years has told The Independent the US sanctions on the country are illegal and could amount to “crimes against humanity” under international law.

Former special rapporteur Alfred de Zayas, who finished his term at the UN in March, has criticized the US for engaging in “economic warfare” against Venezuela which he said is hurting the economy and killing Venezuelans.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

A quite realistic piece from the NYT

I also remember the "realistic" pieces from the NYT regarding Iraq almost two decades ago...

Originally Posted by SKkin

^^I know Max was in Russia working for some years.

As for Dan Cohen(RT Correspondent)...he can't be all bad.

Israeli Consulate in Boston to RT Journalist: You’re a Disgrace to Americans and Jews Everywhere
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pre...jews-1.6675728


What about The Independent, does Putin control that too?


Venezuela crisis: Former UN rapporteur says US sanctions are killing citizens
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8748201.html

This Alfred de Zayas?

Alfred de Zayas, installed in 2012 to the Cuban-created U.N. post of “Expert on promotion of a democratic and equitable international order” was warmly welcomed and embraced in Caracas on Monday by Venezuelan foreign minister Jorge Arreaza.


Zayas has often used his UN post to spread overt propaganda praising Venezuela’s Maduro regime.

He is a long-time defender of Fidel Castro and a hero to Holocaust deniers for his writings accusing the World War II allies of committing “genocide” against Germany.

https://www.unwatch.org/u-n-experts-...-rights-group/

He sounds a hoot.


Added: Correction - he sounds like a fucking mental case.

He actually wrote this....

These and other important advances have also been possible thanks to the so-called Bolivarian Missions, innovative social programs that were launched under the government of Commander Hugo Chavez and continue under that of President Nicolás Maduro. Such public policies should be taken as an example by the other countries of the world.

I'm thinking maybe such policies should probably not be taken as an example, unless it's an example of a right royal fuck up.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Do you live in a fucking cave or something?

So the solution being suggested from external sources, who are only interested in the raping of the countries assets, is more chaos and war, is in your opinion better?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Dan Cohen is literally an RT employee you mug. And his pal Blumenthal is an RT "contributor".

Is somebody naive enough to expect it to be told by "recognized MSM"?

Originally Posted by OhOh

So the solution being suggested from external sources, who are only interested in the raping of the countries assets, is more chaos and war, is in your opinion better?

And "whoosh".... that's the sound of you missing the fucking point as ever.

Venezuela is already all but destroyed, and has no chance of recovering while Chavismo is in power. Putin wants Chavismo in power like he wants baldy orange cunto in power, because he can manipulate him. Putin does not do favours for other countries, he does favours for himself.

It doesn't need a war to give the Venezuelan people a chance. The NYT article I posted sums it up articulately. If the Military can be persuaded to get their snouts out of the Maduro trough, and rewarded enough to do what they are supposed to do, Venezuela can return to its pre-Maduro functioning democracy, rebuild (not just its oil) industry and get peoples' living standard back to something less '60s Biafra.

You have no fucking idea what you are on about as usual: "blah blah rape the countries assets", you fucking moron.

The US only stopped buying Venezuelan oil last week. And that in an attempt to cut off Maduro's fucking thievery and get the arsehole out, so Venezuelans have a fighting chance of eating.

Looks like the Chinkies have realised there is no point handing more cash to Maduro.

SINGAPORE, Jan 31 (Reuters) - PetroChina Co plans to drop Petroleos de Venezuela SA (PDVSA) as a partner in a planned $10 billion oil refinery and petrochemical project in southern China, said three sources familiar with the matter this week.


The company's decision adds to state-owned PDVSA's woes after the United States imposed sanctions on the company on Jan. 28 to undermine the rule of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro.

However, dropping the company was not a reaction to the U.S. sanctions but follows the deteriorating financial status of PDVSA over the past few years, said two of the sources, both executives with China National Petroleum Corp, the parent of PetroChina.

"There will be no role of PDVSA as an equity partner. At least we don't see that possibility in the near future given the situation the country has been through in recent years," said one of the executives, asking to remain unidentified because he is not authorized to speak to the media.

The move illustrates the fading relationship between Venezuela and China, which has given $50 billion to the South American country in the form of loans-for-oil agreements. China, the world's largest oil importer, is now the second-biggest buyer of Venezuelan crude in Asia, taking in 16.63 million tonnes, or about 332,000 barrels per day (bpd), in 2018.

That relationship began to fray in 2015 when Venezuela requested a change in the payment terms on the debt to ease the impact of its falling crude output and declining oil prices. Instead of handing out large fresh loans, Beijing has shifted to small investments or granting extensions in the grace periods for the outstanding loans.

The sanctions were imposed at the same time the United States and other nations have backed opposition leader Juan Guaido as legitimate ruler instead of President Nicolas Maduro. During Maduro's rule, oil production has plunged while millions have left amid hyperinflation and as consumer goods have vanished from market shelves.

PDVSA was originally a 40 percent equity partner in the refinery project, located the city of Jieyang in the southern province of Guangdong. PetroChina and PDVSA received environmental approval for the project in 2011.

Initial plans were for the refinery to process 400,000 bpd of strictly Venezuelan crude oil. The plans have now been expanded to focus on petrochemical production including a 1.2-million-tonnes-per-year ethylene plant and a 2.6-million tpy aromatics plant. The plant is expected to be operational by late 2021, Caixin reported on Dec. 5.

Under the revised plan, the refinery will not be restricted to Venezuelan oil but could process other so-called heavy crude grades that could come from Middle Eastern producers such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, said the third official, a PetroChina trading executive.

An e-mail response from PetroChina's public relations company Hill+Knowlton Strategies only stated "China-Venezuela Guangdong Petrochemical Co Ltd is a joint venture company approved by the state," referring to the formal name for the company set up by Petrochina and PDVSA to develop the refinery.

PDVSA and the Venezuelan Ministry of Petroleum did not respond to a request for comment from Reuters. (Reporting by Chen Aizhu; editing by Christian Schmollinger)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/31/reuters-america-exclusive-petrochina-to-drop-pdvsa-as-partner-in-refinery-project--sources.h

tml

I did write an overly long rant on why the problems are mostly caused by the last 2 Presidents but I am preacing to the converted. The others will still be pratling on about how good two oppressive regimes are and why they will save the world.

A bit of background which may explain China booting Venezuela off its petrochem project (above). Note that the $42.5bn figure up to 2012 is now around $60bn.

China’s Venezuela Headache
With billions in loans at stake, China is finding itself embroiled in the South American country’s political crisis.


By Shannon Tiezzi
February 01, 2019

Venezuela’s mounting political crisis came to a head last week, when National Assembly head Juan Guaido officially declared himself the interim president, calling the 2018 elections that returned President Nicolas Maduro to power illegitimate. Despite mass protests being held across Venezuela, Maduro has refused to step down.

Now the world is taking sides. The United States quickly recognized Guiado as president, as did most of Venezuela’s fellow South American countries (with Bolivia being a notable exception). U.S. allies Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom also recognized Guiado. On Thursday the EU parliament recognized Guiado as Venezuela’s interim president, after most of Europe called for new elections in the country.

On the other hand, much of Asia has either remained silent or issued support for Maduro – and that latter category includes China, one of the Maduro government’s key financial supporters. China has approached the crisis by reiterating its longstanding policy of noninterference, which in this instance translates to support for the Maduro government.

On January 23, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying noted the basic outline of China’s position. Hua said that all relevant parties should “seek a political solution to the issue of Venezuela through peaceful dialogue within the framework of the Venezuelan Constitution.”

“China always upholds the principle of noninterference in other counties’ internal affairs and opposes foreign interference in Venezuela’s affairs,” Hua added.

On January 28, another Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Geng Shuang, expanded on China’s position by adding: “We support the Venezuelan government’s efforts to uphold national sovereignty, independence, and stability.” Geng further called on “all countries” to “oppose external intervention in Venezuela’s own affairs as well as any attempts by one country to interfere in another’s internal affairs” – a not-so-subtle reference to the United States’ attempts to put pressure on the Maduro government. The Trump administration has hit Venezuela’s state oil company with painful sanctions that are expected to deepen the existing economic crisis in the country.

As for which leader China recognizes, Geng pointed out that a “Special Envoy of President Xi Jinping attended the inauguration ceremony of President Maduro. If China does not recognize him, why did we send a Special Envoy to attend his inauguration ceremony?”

China’s close relationship with Venezuela predates Maduro. Late President Hugo Chavez actively courted Chinese investment and loans. Beijing, for its part, was attracted by the country’s oil supplies, which became the collateral – and primary means of repayment – for the loans. Under Chavez, Venezuela quickly grew into China’s strongest partner in South America, and the rewards were rich: the China Development Bank alone provided a staggering $42.5 billion in loans to Caracas between 2007 and 2012. As Matt Ferchen pointed out in a 2012 article for The Diplomat, at the time that amount accounted for “for nearly 60 percent of the bank’s loans to Latin America and the Caribbean.”

That heyday, however, left China with a headache when Venezuela’s economy began to crumble under Maduro, Chavez’s successor. Oil prices cratered in 2014, a heavy blow for a country that relies on oil and gas revenue for a quarter of its GDP. Rock-bottom oil prices also meant that Venezuela would have to export more oil to China to repay its loans – leaving less oil for sale and compounding the revenue problem.

China recognized the problem. In 2014, according to AidData, a research lab based at the College of William and Mary that tracks Chinese foreign aid, Beijing announced that it had had to relax the terms of its $50 billion in loans to Venezuela:

It removed the minimum quantity of oil sent for repayment (previously 330 thousand barrels per day), allowed Venezuela’s government to make contributions in local currency rather than US dollars, and altered the maturity of one of three loan tranches.

As Venezuela’s economy faltered, Maduro made it clear that he was hoping China would bail his country out. His hopes were rewarded with a $4 billion cash-for-oil deal in July 2014, and again with another $5 billion loan in April 2015.

Yet there was a clear reluctance from Beijing by this point, and the new loans reportedly carried strict conditions. Around the same time, Chinese scholars began to warn that Beijing should take more care to “guard against bad debts” by avoiding risky investments – just like Venezuela.

China thus finds itself somewhat stuck. It can abandon Maduro, possibly losing an attractive foothold in South America as well as billions of dollars worth of oil that’s effectively already been paid for. Or Beijing can continue to support Maduro – but run the real risk of throwing good money after bad.

That may be why Beijing has largely allowed Russia to take point on countering the U.S. position. In a testy UN Security Council meeting on Venezuela on January 26, Russian representative Vassily Nebenzia accused the United States of seeking “regime change” in Venezuela and helping push the country “to the edge of a bloodbath.” By contrast, China’s representative Ma Zhaoxu “called on all parties to stay rational and keep calm” and “called on all relevant parties to respect the choice of Venezuela’s people.”

China opposes the U.S. push to oust Maduro, and the corresponding unilateral sanctions, on principle. And Beijing certainly has a preference for keeping a known quantity in power to safeguard its existing loans to and investments in Venezuela. But don’t mistake that pragmatic policy for a wholehearted embrace of Maduro. Above all else, China values stability, and Maduro has failed spectacularly to provide that.


https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/chin...uela-headache/

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

The United States quickly recognized Guiado as president, as did most of Venezuela’s fellow South American countries (with Bolivia being a notable exception).

"Bolivia being a notable exception"? Humbly concealed few more Latin America countries: Mexico, Uruguay, Cuba, Nicaragua, and perhaps few more...

At the end of the day, it will be same as with the Iran's sanctions: The vassal countries issue obediently the xeroxed declaration, but will find the way how to serve themselves:a "channel" for bypassing the sanctions...

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

The others will still be pratling on about how good two oppressive regimes are

That's not my angle. I just think it should be none of US business. Like this:

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

“China always upholds the principle of noninterference in other counties’ internal affairs and opposes foreign interference in Venezuela’s affairs,” Hua added.

All of our interventions seem to lead to tears...tears from the countries where we intervene and from US taxpayers. Not to mention US military families who lose loved ones when the interventions turn into wars.


Did interference from us, in the past, in South America somehow lead to those two oppressive regimes in the first place? I wouldn't be surprised. Look what our interference in Iran in the 1950s led to.

20 tons of Venezuelan gold packed up on a plane headed to Russia ......or Dubai....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/venez...022753684.html