Recession or Destruction? Take your pick

[harrybarracuda]

Economic growth is now mostly dependent on pointless consumption, and is unsustainable.

Either we accept that economies need to shrink as do populations, or we accept that mankind might as well be on a flat earth because they are destined to fall off it sooner or later.

Discuss.

[can123]

I am old, getting older every day and really don't give a shit for mankind. As long as I can have everything I want until the day I die, I will be happy.

[HuangLao]

False wealth.
False worth.
False ideals.
False social order.
True to dumbing down.

Part and parcel of the gift of cycling illusion that keeps on giving.

[can123]

^
As long as it continues to give, no problems.

[pseudolus]

as do populations

Ahh the Eugenicist myth = spoken like a true CNN worshipper.

Populations are shrinking, and when the baby-boomers finally fuck off this mortal coil there will be a massive blip in population.

[harrybarracuda]

Populations are shrinking

My word, you're a special kind of challenged, aren't you?

[pseudolus]

My word, you're a special kind of challenged, aren't you?

Never challenged by you, CNN Bot.

You believe the eugenics narrative because you are stupid.

Ever watched the movie Soylent Green? Based on a book by Harry Harrison called Make Room, Make Room. The idea was that the world population in 1999 would be 7 billion and there is no water, no food, no space, everyone crowded together blah blah blah with the introduction written by a "population needs controlling" eugenicist Paul R. Ehrlich who has made a living pushing these lies ever since. Funny thing is though, humans create more than they need, so as the population grows so does the ability and technology to maintain life..... except when selfish greedy eugenicist cu nts get in the way. in the book, Soylent green is Soy and Lentils by the way. To scare people in the movie it was HUMANS. Ooooh be scared harryswinger.

Its all bullshit and this thread should be in the CLIMATE CHANGE crap thread which is just a tool of same said eugenicist cu nts to radically drop population.

[Hugh Cow]

The sooner we find alternatives to endless and at times mindless consumption the better. I think it was Michael Ruppert a controversial conspiracy theorist who spoke of Entropy as a sort of scientific metaphor for endless consumption which cannot go on indefinitly. Even the sun's consumption is finite.

[pseudolus]

It is interesting, in that I 100% agree with you Hugh Cow, that most people who bleat on about population control are also the most avowed capitalists and Statism acolytes (that dreadful religion where followers are convinced a State government does things for the good people the people).

[happynz]

False wealth.
False worth.
False ideals.
False social order.
True to dumbing down.

Part and parcel of the gift of cycling illusion that keeps on giving.

Has someone programmed you to operate on an endless loop?

[docmartin]

Ever since the Club of Rome started calling ‘the sky is falling’ I’ve been thinking about this.
The world didn’t get nuked, peak oil seems to have gone away, peak phosphorus hasn’t arrived, tuna are still in the cans etc etc.
But.
There are finite limits to resources and population growth without a doubt.
The question is ‘ when ?’

[Switch]

The earth is still evolving, and it will continue, just as it has done for eons. Of the trillions of bacteria, plants and animals that ever existed, about 95% are now extinct.

Mans activity may have made a small dent in the earths inexorable development, but in the grand scheme of things, it’s no more than a blip on a computer screen.
The earth will continue to adapt and evolve, despite mans interference and alleged higher functions, but never because of man. We are all worm fodder, gone in the blink of an eye. It behooves us to be more respectul of this marvelous resource bestowed upon us, that it might last a little longer. Long enough for us to learn our limitations perhaps.

[Cujo]

I've lost the article now but I read a very good piece yesterday about David Attenboroughs view that the end of civilization and the destruction of the the natural world is in sight. Unprecedented pollution, animal extinctions, destruction of carbon sinks , global warming, the world awash with plastic. It doesn't bode well.
I forsee terrible strife in the not too distant future.
Especially with the growing disparity between the haves and the have-nots.

[Switch]

I've lost the article now but I read a very good piece yesterday about David Attenboroughs view that the end of civilization and the destruction of the the natural world is in sight. Unprecedented pollution, animal extinctions, destruction of carbon sinks , global warming, the world awash with plastic. It doesn't bode well.
I forsee terrible strife in the not too distant future.
Especially with the growing disparity between the haves and the have-nots.

I think you, and Attenborough give anthropomorphic influences way too much credit. We ar e truly insignificant against the evolving forces of nature.
Earth creates a natural environment. Man tinkers with it, ineffectually. Humans are sufficiently intelligent and innovative to mitigate some of his poorer decisions.

In the end it does not matter. Humanity is powerless against the complexity of nature’s march to evolution.

[OhOh]

Economic growth is now mostly dependent on pointless consumption

Undoubtedly in some areas in the world. Some others are still trying to, fill their bellies, stop drinking polluted water, escape from slavery.......

is unsustainable.

For some who have squandered ample opportunities, but not all.

[harrybarracuda]

Funny thing is though, humans create more than they need

I bet your parents spent a long time wiping your saliva off the windows.

[harrybarracuda]

There are ways to change things. A switch away from fossil fuels is possible: Using plastics to create furniture instead of carrier bags and straws could stop the demolition of forests.

The key word is "sustainable". Climate change is not the only issue.

[OhOh]

The key word is "sustainable".

I hope you are sitting down. I agree with you 'arry!!!!!

Sustainable, to me, means ones political leaders producing a system where people can adopt a life style which remains constant and, hopefully, improving over the years. What is disastrous are sudden changes due to an change/imposition over which the individual has no control. Ones employment no longer being available, ones partner dying or moving on to "greener pastures" for whatever reason etc. Forcing a reappraisal of ones situation and ability to cope.

If an individual or family can see a future where they are, the necessity to trek to another place is not considered. As we have seen in many places around the world chaos ensues when individuals and families cannot exist where they live and "hit the road".

[docmartin]

Nature isn't 'sustainable'.
It's dynamic.
Things change.

[OhOh]

It's dynamic.
Things change.

Generally over substantial time periods.

[harrybarracuda]

Nature isn't 'sustainable'.
It's dynamic.
Things change.

I don't think mankind's destruction of nature is "natural" behaviour.

[docmartin]

I don't think mankind's destruction of nature is "natural" behaviour.

Ah but it is.
A species will consume the resourses in its environmental niche thus increasing the numbers of that species.
Then the resources are consumed and guess what - the population decreases.

Being an earnest hand-wringer wishing for sympathetic environmental management is desirable but it's also un- 'natural'. Maaaan ....
As I eventually realised after working for Groinpus for too long and getting burnt out.

[harrybarracuda]

Ah but it is.
A species will consume the resourses in its environmental niche thus increasing the numbers of that species.
Then the resources are consumed and guess what - the population decreases.

Being an earnest hand-wringer wishing for sympathetic environmental management is desirable but it's also un- 'natural'. Maaaan ....
As I eventually realised after working for Groinpus for too long and getting burnt out.

Were humans simply "consuming resources" by way of eating, yes, a natural cycle of predator/prey supply and demand would take place.

But we aren't wiping out habitats like forests to eat. We're doing it for nice coffee tables and wooden floors. And we aren't doing it by hand, but with complicated, ruthlessly efficient machinery.

Like I said: Unsustainable.

[docmartin]

'Consume' meaning 'utilise' rather than 'eat'.

[harrybarracuda]

'Consume' meaning 'utilise' rather than 'eat'.

We're the only species in history that builds coffee tables, wardrobes, bars and restaurants. I don't call that "utilitising" in the way a bird gathers twigs to build a nest.