Thread: blackwater (war profiteering scum) expelled from iraq

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

What would you do?"

first of all, as a person with a moral and ethical core, i would never be a war profiteer.

secondly, if i were devoid of those attributes, i wouldn't take a job i clearly couldn't handle.

and boonie, why do you keep avoiding the question......you've repeatedly claimed that recruiting numbers are being met, and that 'plenty of patriotic young americans' are enlisting.....so why the need for blackwater at all?

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

What would you do?"

first of all, as a person with a moral and ethical core, i would never be a war profiteer.

secondly, if i were devoid of those attributes, i wouldn't take a job i clearly couldn't handle.

and boonie, why do you keep avoiding the question......you've repeatedly claimed that recruiting numbers are being met, and that 'plenty of patriotic young americans' are enlisting.....so why the need for blackwater at all?

You need the likes of these security firms to do the work that isn't the responsibiliy of the military. In other words escort and protect important people who would otherwise go unprotected.
I don't think Blackwater is a legitamate firm and is a front for covert US military operations. This is how they use military to do thing they're not supposed to be doing.They then use the law to evade their wayward actions.

Just seems that even tho he ia a fairly quiet guy, Ivor Biggun is one hell of a lot smarter and up to speed on world happenings that the Mighty Voice Ray Carey.

They have used Civilian Security Services in a lot of Police Actions [wars] for years.

Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

I don't think Blackwater is a legitamate firm and is a front for covert US military operations.

yeah, definitely, it's just another secret service, CIA, special services front shop. The way the company was setup has all the red flags of an undercover operation. It's just a big CIA front.

"SECURITY personnel from Blackwater USA have been involved in 56 shootings while guarding American diplomats in Iraq so far this year, the US State Department says."

"Reports on Thursday showed that Blackwater's rate of shootings was at least twice as high as those for other companies providing similar services to the State Department."

"In a separate issue a new study released on Thursday by Mr Waxman's oversight committee was highly critical of Blackwater's performance in a 2004 case in which four company contractors were killed in Fallujah in Iraq's Anbar province.
It said Blackwater had ignored "multiple warnings" of the dangers of going into Fallujah."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pre...ith-blackwater-

Seems to me there is something distinctly Iffy about Blackwater.

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by sabang

"SECURITY personnel from Blackwater USA have been involved in 56 shootings while guarding American diplomats in Iraq so far this year, the US State Department says."

"Reports on Thursday showed that Blackwater's rate of shootings was at least twice as high as those for other companies providing similar services to the State Department."

"In a separate issue a new study released on Thursday by Mr Waxman's oversight committee was highly critical of Blackwater's performance in a 2004 case in which four company contractors were killed in Fallujah in Iraq's Anbar province.
It said Blackwater had ignored "multiple warnings" of the dangers of going into Fallujah."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pre...ith-blackwater-

Seems to me there is something distinctly Iffy about Blackwater.

I'll search for the link later, but there has been some reporting the Blackwater personnel did something very bad in Fallujah and their killings were revenge. I'll go and try to confirm it and get info later today.

As for the entire concept of Blackwater and "security firms," it's a great way for the U.S. government to spend money, and perform operations, but distance themselves from responsibility.

I think we'll be hearing more about Blackwater as this investigation expands.

And point we can add to the quagmire.

Their revenge went to far when they burned, paraded and strung up the corpses at the bridge leading into town. Oh and the dancing too. But then it does effectively generate terror.

Originally Posted by attaboy

Their revenge went to far when they burned, paraded and strung up the corpses at the bridge leading into town. Oh and the dancing too.

i didn't realize 'shock and awe' was a one way street.

Originally Posted by attaboy

Their revenge went to far when they burned, paraded and strung up the corpses at the bridge leading into town. Oh and the dancing too. But then it does effectively generate terror.

And the Americans have do the same.

The use drops napalm on people in Iraq, and many of the victims have been civilians.

The bomb is called the Mark77 Firebomb.

And the Americans have burned and killed more civilians than the 4 Blackwater mercenaries that were killed.

good points MM.

and in reference to going 'too far' ....how about those happy smiling photos of the US military in abu ghraib? but let's focus on the dancing of a few civilians who likely perceived it as bringing justice to an invader.

freedom's on the march!

ray do you find their brand of justice gruesome or horrid?

Yeah and after the bombs the infantry rushes in and incinerates any survivors. Then they drag them out and string the corpses up on the bridge leading into town. Then it's the time to dance and poke the corpses. Why don't you use the old leftist blogger talking points of "dead is dead" as if it's all the same.

Originally Posted by attaboy

ray do you find their brand of justice gruesome or horrid?

yes.....but no more so than the use of cluster bombs and napalm. and had the iraqis invaded the US twice in fifteen years, i have little doubt that some yahoos in the US south would have strung up some dead iraqi soldiers (or to be more specific, war profiteers)
.hell, in jena they hang nooses if black kids sit under certain trees, imagine what they would have done to a muslim invader.

Originally Posted by attaboy

Yeah and after the bombs the infantry rushes in and incinerates any survivors.

you're thinking of the US military at mai lai....but if it hasn't happened yet in this war, it's still early days.

Originally Posted by attaboy

Why don't you use the old leftist blogger talking points of "dead is dead" as if it's all the same.

i don't read blogs, so i can't really comment on 'leftist blogger talking points' but as far as 'dead is dead', is concerned.... 'shock and awe' comes in many forms, and it certainly seems to have the desired effect on you.

Originally Posted by attaboy

Where's the video?

right here....
Newsweek Video - Newsweek Video - MSNBC.com

Originally Posted by attaboy

Who has seen it?

me.

Originally Posted by attaboy

I think it's safe to say the Iraqis are lying.

i think it's safe to say that you were wrong.....again.

Blackwater: The Confidential Iraqi Incident Report - Newsweek The War in Iraq - MSNBC.com

[quote=raycarey;413301] it's still early days.
quote]
Got that right - operative statement on the entire fracas, eh?

Yep, don't underestimate the influence of the 'loving' religious right in the US for times still to come!

Originally Posted by stroller

Yep, don't underestimate the influence of the 'loving' religious right in the US for times still to come!

180 out there Headmaster.
We don't underestamate the Islamofascist fanatics...

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by attaboy

Where's the video?

right here....
Newsweek Video - Newsweek Video - MSNBC.com

Originally Posted by attaboy

Who has seen it?

me.

Originally Posted by attaboy

I think it's safe to say the Iraqis are lying.

i think it's safe to say that you were wrong.....again.

Blackwater: The Confidential Iraqi Incident Report - Newsweek The War in Iraq - MSNBC.com

I was prepared to thank the Iraqi govenment for providing the video showing the attack. I was expecting to much. The Iraqi govenment said they had video of the event as it happened. I don't see it. It's footage of a bullet riddled burnt vehicle . I see no event unfolding. That ain't no Zapruder Film. Why do you support their lies? I was hoping to see some evidence for myself. I really wanted there to be a video. But no. More aspersions.

Mai Lai? They tried their damnest saying it happened in Haditha.

A good Editorial from the NY Times, I agree with everything it says :-

Subcontracting the War
1st October 2007

There is, conveniently, no official count. But there are an estimated 160,000 private contractors working in Iraq, and some 50,000 of them are “private security” operatives — that is, fighters. The dangers of this privatized approach to war became frighteningly clear last month, after guards from Blackwater USA, assigned to protect American diplomats, were accused of killing at least eight Iraqis, including an infant.

Iraqis — whose hearts and minds the Bush administration insists it is finally winning — were infuriated by the killings, telling tales of arrogant and trigger-happy operatives terrorizing ordinary citizens. The incident provides an irrefutable argument for bringing these mission-critical jobs, which should be performed by soldiers, back into government hands as quickly as possible, and for placing any remaining private contractors under the jurisdiction of American military law.

Blackwater’s 850 operatives in Iraq are not the only problem. The fact that American diplomatic activity in Iraq nearly came to a halt when Blackwater was grounded for a few days shows how much American operations have come to depend on mercenaries.

The armed forces have relied on private contractors since the United States opted for an all-volunteer military after the end of the Vietnam War — mostly for noncritical tasks such as building or cooking. The Bush administration took it to a whole new level when it decided to fight a big war with a far too small force — requiring the Pentagon and other agencies to turn to private security contractors like Blackwater to help make up some of the difference.

Contractors have been in a legal limbo in Iraq since 2004, when the American authorities there granted them immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law. Some of the interrogators involved in the abuse of prisoners at the infamous Abu Ghraib prison were private contractors, yet none of them have been punished. Indeed, no private contractor has been prosecuted or convicted for any crime involving an Iraqi victim.

Last November, an amendment was included in the defense authorization bill that put private contractors under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, exposing the contractors to a court martial just like any other American soldiers. The Bush administration has been none too eager to enforce this new law, and the Pentagon has not yet issued guidelines to commanders about its application.

The lesson here is that such essential jobs cannot be outsourced. War is not a private business.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/op...th&oref=slogin

without the dems controlling congress, this report about blackwater never would have come to light......

The report, prepared by the majority staff of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, says Blackwater has been involved in 195 shooting incidents since 2005, or roughly 1.4 per week. In more than 80 percent of the incidents, called “escalation of force,” Blackwater’s guards fired the first shots even though the company’s contract with the State Department calls for it to use defensive force only, it said.
“In the vast majority of instances in which Blackwater fired shots, Blackwater is firing from a moving vehicle and does not remain at the scene to determine if the shots resulted in casualties,” according to the report.

122 Blackwater employees were fired - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

and here's a little something for all you alleged conservatives...

Blackwater bills the U.S. government $1,222 per day for a single "protective security specialist," the report says. That works out to $445,891 on an annual basis, far higher than it would cost the military to provide the same service.

The Associated Press: Blackwater Portrayed As Out of Control

^
That alludes to something that I've been thinking about... So you've got Blackwater providing - for want of a better term - a private army. Now presumably they offer relatively better employment terms than the US Govt., particularly in payment?

So being that Blackwater hires (again presumably) mostly those with previous military experience does this not put them in a directly competing position with the US Govt. who is also drawing from that same limited pool? Just all seems a little odd to me, paying more for the resources of a private Co. that could be said to be undermining your own efforts.

^ I think the point is that it frees up regular forces from doing security work and other odd jobs presumably. Maybe it's been mentioned previously in this thread but Blackwater is now the largest standing private army in the world.

I have heard that some regular forces are resentful of the higher pay these mercs get though.

Originally Posted by chinthee

^ I think the point is that it frees up regular forces from doing security work and other odd jobs presumably. Maybe it's been mentioned previously in this thread but Blackwater is now the largest standing private army in the world.

I forgot to mention that out of interest I checked out the BW website and it looks like they only employee US citizens - so I see your point but I guess what I'm getting at is that these same people could (and in some cases probably were) be employeed directly by the US forces.

I have heard that some regular forces are resentful of the higher pay these mercs get though.

Yup, heard that too. I think though that it wasn't solely limited to the mercs, but all 'contractors' being employed there? Understandable though.

Whats going on??

Been a couple of weeks since the OP said that Blackwater was expelled from IRAQ and they are still there and doing fine,, Has some mud slinging dude got his wires crossed or what??