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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Will the Syrian Civil War ever end?

    I had to laugh at this. I'm not sure what's funnier, Putin saying he supports free and fair elections or baldy orange cunto saying he had a "good meeting with President Putin".

    Meanwhile the yanks have bombed the shit out of Russian backed militias and are holding the oil fields hostage, only agreeing to release funds to Syria if it holds said elections.

    And Putin has to decide if he wants to retaliate after Turkey bombed Syrian government forces....

    A right royal mess.

    I can see it going at least until next winter.



    Joint Statement by the President of the United States and the President of the Russian Federation




    Media NoteOffice of the Spokesperson
    Washington, DC

    November 11, 2017



    President Trump and President Putin today, meeting on the margins of the APEC conference in Da Nang, Vietnam, confirmed their determination to defeat ISIS in Syria. They expressed their satisfaction with successful U.S.-Russia enhanced de-confliction efforts between U.S. and Russian military professionals that have dramatically accelerated ISIS’s losses on the battlefield in recent months.
    The Presidents agreed to maintain open military channels of communication between military professionals to help ensure the safety of both U.S. and Russian forces and de-confliction of partnered forces engaged in the fight against ISIS. They confirmed these efforts will be continued until the final defeat of ISIS is achieved.
    The Presidents agreed that there is no military solution to the conflict in Syria. They confirmed that the ultimate political solution to the conflict must be forged through the Geneva process pursuant to UNSCR 2254. They also took note of President Asad’s recent commitment to the Geneva process and constitutional reform and elections as called for under UNSCR 2254.
    The two Presidents affirmed that these steps must include full implementation of UNSCR 2254, including constitutional reform and free and fair elections under UN supervision, held to the highest international standards of transparency, with all Syrians, including members of the diaspora, eligible to participate. The Presidents affirmed their commitment to Syria’s sovereignty, unity, independence, territorial integrity, and non-sectarian character, as defined in UNSCR 2254, and urged all Syrian parties to participate actively in the Geneva political process and to support efforts to ensure its success.
    Finally President Trump and President Putin confirmed the importance of de-escalation areas as an interim step to reduce violence in Syria, enforce ceasefire agreements, facilitate unhindered humanitarian access, and set the conditions for the ultimate political solution to the conflict. They reviewed progress on the ceasefire in southwest Syria that was finalized the last time the two Presidents met in Hamburg, Germany on July 7, 2017.
    The two presidents, today, welcomed the Memorandum of Principles concluded in Amman, Jordan, on November 8, 2017, between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, the Russian Federation, and the United States of America. This Memorandum reinforces the success of the ceasefire initiative, to include the reduction, and ultimate elimination, of foreign forces and foreign fighters from the area to ensure a more sustainable peace. Monitoring this ceasefire arrangement will continue to take place through the Amman Monitoring Center, with participation by expert teams from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, the Russian Federation, and the United States.
    The two Presidents discussed the ongoing need to reduce human suffering in Syria and called on all UN member states to increase their contributions to address these humanitarian needs over the coming months.
    In addition, President Trump noted that he had a good meeting with President Putin. He further noted that the successful implementation of the agreements announced today will save thousands of lives‎.




    https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2017/11/275459.htm

  2. #2
    Dislocated Member
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    not to mention the 4x2's

  3. #3
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    It's not a war but a series of wars, often with one side not knowing who they're with or against.

    Imho can only be resolved by Russia, with expensive military, diplomatic and political consent if not inducements, and that would involve lots of pink bits for a feckless western media to exploit.

  4. #4
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    A right royal mess.
    No argument from me. As usual big civilian casualities as the various factions scramble all over the country to gain control. Sad but predictable.

  5. #5
    last farang standing
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    Not likely while the world powers will still sell weapons to anyone with a pulse.

  6. #6
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    Will the Syrian Civil War ever end?
    Not if Israel & the US have their way. They know now that they can't overthrow the Assad regime with a nasty bunch of mainly foreign islamist's, so they'll just settle for perpetual war instead. So much for the War on Terror.

  7. #7
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    In fact, the war in Syria is not a "civil" one...

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    In fact, the war in Syria is not a "civil" one...
    Not sure it ever was, with outsiders playing both sides and creating new ones.

  9. #9
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Not sure it ever was, with outsiders playing both sides and creating new ones.
    It was until Putin intervened.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Not if Israel & the US have their way. They know now that they can't overthrow the Assad regime with a nasty bunch of mainly foreign islamist's, so they'll just settle for perpetual war instead. So much for the War on Terror.
    Well the "Civil War" is coming up on its eighth anniversary and in hindsight the Allied Coalition could've easily overthrown Bashar al-Assad by moving straight in and blasting the shite out of Assad during the initial "Arab Spring".
    Instead the world powers declared in 2014 that ISIS was the threat de jour that allowed Russia and Iran a bigger slice and direct involvement in Syria.
    Of course US forces were occupied with troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    So basically the US military ("Allied Coalition") busy with "Operation Inherent Resolve" to take out ISIS/ISIL decided to let the 'proxy' Rebel factions fight against forces loyal to Asaad.
    Assad decidedly took the fight to civilian centres whom supported the Arab Spring uprising.

    Currently more than 5 million Syrians are listed as refugees living outside the country while 7 million are dispaced internally with major damage to infrastructure throughout many cities.
    At least 12 million Syrians currently farked out of a 21 million population a decade ago...with no dwelling to return to.

    So yes in 20/20 hindsight that window of opportunity to take out Assad has passed...unless Iran and /or Russia tell him to fook off elsewhere. Now Russia and Iran (with its proxy Hezbollah) want a piece of the Syrian pie.
    Unfortunately Israel is in the neighborhood. And the House of Saud Sunnis .

    Sooner or later something in the House of Assad tinderbox either must or will give or ignite in the future.

    Additionally the Kurds are seeking their own independent homeland in the northeast.

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    in hindsight the Allied Coalition could've easily overthrown Bashar al-Assad by moving straight in and blasting the shite out of Assad during the initial "Arab Spring"
    That sounds like one of those "We could have won the Vietnam War, but, but...." laments. That didn't work so well in Iraq either, did it- and it was never on the table here.
    So Syria joins Libya as the finest foreign policy debacle of the Obama era.

    Sooner or later something in the House of Assad tinderbox either must or will give or ignite in the future.
    Ain't nobody to take over. Kurds just wanna run their own show, and the likes of AQ & Isil do not make for decently governed nations.

  12. #12
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee View Post
    Well the "Civil War" is coming up on its eighth anniversary and in hindsight the Allied Coalition could've easily overthrown Bashar al-Assad by moving straight in and blasting the shite out of Assad during the initial "Arab Spring".
    That is simply not true.

    Putin has protected Assad from the get go and blocked every UN resolution against Assad.

  13. #13
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    So Syria joins Libya as the finest foreign policy debacle of the Obama era.
    Yep. Along with foreign policies of Bush and now Trump.
    All adding up to a near zero US influence in the ME.

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    who cares as long as it's mostly Muslims being killed

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Not if Israel & the US have their way.
    ^^^ This is what I was responding to.

    If Israel and the US had had their way...of course, the chips will fall where they may.

    When you fight you fight to win. The winner is the last man standing.
    Fighting nice is never an option for total success militarily.

    In VN the American politicians backed a feckless dictator which would possibly be deemed the wrong side.
    If the US had backed Ho Chi Minh it would still have been the wrong side.
    America should have remained out of that conflict...SEATO or not.

    In addition the politicians lost the war, not the US military.
    The military fought and continues in many cases to fight with one hand tied.

    We're they allowed to completely annihilate Hanoi and take out the ports utilized for Chinese shipping military supplies ? No.
    Were they allowed to burst reservoirs and dams and flood the North ? No. Etc...

    Thus the inherent problem conflicting military interests and strategy with political ambitions and objectives.

  16. #16
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Yep. Along with foreign policies of Bush and now Trump.
    All adding up to a near zero US influence in the ME.
    Amazing how you muppets never mention the foreign policy of Putin.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeCoffee View Post
    Thus the inherent problem conflicting military interests and strategy with political ambitions and objectives.
    Militarily speaking the US could have won the VN war even while losing it strategically/politically however it would have spurred another conflict similar to Korea as China may well have attacked across the boarder. Strategic defeats do not always translate to a military defeat for example the US military took Baghdad in days. That was a decisive military victory that will be taught in war colleges for decades to come. The next phase of the war however was a defeat strategically but not militarily.

    People often times are incapable of deciphering the difference.

  18. #18
    Dislocated Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Amazing how you muppets never mention the foreign policy of Putin.
    that's your job harry... and you are so diligent

  19. #19
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Amazing how you muppets never mention the foreign policy of Putin.
    My reply was to Sabang's post re US foreign policy.
    Putin's foreign policy is a different issue but clear.
    His policy is to expand Russia's area of influence as far as he can. A policy which generally means supporting dictators like Assad. At the moment his support in bombing Ghouta amounts to supporting a genocide. Putin doesn't care and given Russia's UN veto power he can do so with impunity.

    Syria war: UN plea to end 'hell on earth' Eastern Ghouta crisis - BBC News

    Criticizing failed US foreign policy does not a muppet make.
    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect,"

  20. #20
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    My reply was to Sabang's post re US foreign policy.
    Putin's foreign policy is a different issue but clear.
    His policy is to expand Russia's area of influence as far as he can. A policy which generally means supporting dictators like Assad. At the moment his support in bombing Ghouta amounts to supporting a genocide. Putin doesn't care and given Russia's UN veto power he can do so with impunity.

    Syria war: UN plea to end 'hell on earth' Eastern Ghouta crisis - BBC News

    Criticizing failed US foreign policy does not a muppet make.
    No but let's be fair about it.

    Putin could have sorted Syria out with a few phone calls.

  21. #21
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Putin could have sorted Syria out with a few phone calls.
    Possibly but why would he if his policy is to gain more influence in the ME.

    In the spirit of fainess, the US could sort the Israeli Palestinian conflict with a few calls.

  22. #22
    Dislocated Member
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    Yup... what's good for the Goose. The US has set the precedent many times over.

  23. #23
    กงเกวียนกำเกวียน HuangLao's Avatar
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    Slow expanse of the empire[s].
    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Obvious that most refuse to comprehend this.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnub View Post
    Militarily speaking the US could have won the VN war even while losing it strategically/politically however it would have spurred another conflict similar to Korea as China may well have attacked across the boarder. Strategic defeats do not always translate to a military defeat for example the US military took Baghdad in days. That was a decisive military victory that will be taught in war colleges for decades to come. The next phase of the war however was a defeat strategically but not militarily.

    People often times are incapable of deciphering the difference.

    A good example of "a decisive military victory"

    A member of the CIA helps evacuees up a ladder onto an Air America helicopter on the roof of 22 Gia Long Street April 29, 1975, shortly before Saigon fell to advancing North Vietnamese troops.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Saigon

  25. #25
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Possibly but why would he if his policy is to gain more influence in the ME.

    In the spirit of fainess, the US could sort the Israeli Palestinian conflict with a few calls.
    Equally true.

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