Thread: Has America lost its way and if so can it find a way back?

America for good or bad has been the leader of the "free" world at least since the end of WW2. The USA has helped to bring an end to the last 2 world wars and in that sense has saved possibly millions of lives. Its risk taking attitude have seen many advances that may have taken many more years to come to fruition. The capacity of Americans to run with ideas many of which were discovered in other countries has made them world leaders in technologies that they never invented. This has helped the world advance in ways and short time frames once not thought possible. This gives everyone some stake in what happens in the USA as it has flow on effects for the whole world.
Of course like all world powers it has used this power to promote its own agenda around the world which has sometimes been beneficial and at other times disastrous. Iraq and Vitnam come to mind as well as a few others.
The USA now finds itself in a position much different to the 1950s. Soaring debt, crumbling infrastructure, high rates of crime, especially but not only murder. Gun violence, rising levels of financial inequality, unacceptable levels of incarceration, poorer responses to National disasters, poor levels of health care and poorer education outcomes than most other western economies, partly due to some degree to the huge cost of its military.
How do Americans bring this country back to a country of equality of opportunity and a liberal inclusive democracy that benefits most of its citizens? Can we try to avoid slagging off at America and hopefully put forward ideas that will prevent it from eventually going over an economic cliff and taking much of the world with it. Or do most think everything is just jim dandy.

I thought crime rates had generally fallen?

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

America for good or bad has been the leader of the "free" world at least since the end of WW2. The USA has helped to bring an end to the last 2 world wars and in that sense has saved possibly millions of lives. Its risk taking attitude have seen many advances that may have taken many more years to come to fruition. The capacity of Americans to run with ideas many of which were discovered in other countries has made them world leaders in technologies that they never invented. This has helped the world advance in ways and short time frames once not thought possible. This gives everyone some stake in what happens in the USA as it has flow on effects for the whole world.
Of course like all world powers it has used this power to promote its own agenda around the world which has sometimes been beneficial and at other times disastrous. Iraq and Vitnam come to mind as well as a few others.
The USA now finds itself in a position much different to the 1950s. Soaring debt, crumbling infrastructure, high rates of crime, especially but not only murder. Gun violence, rising levels of financial inequality, unacceptable levels of incarceration, poorer responses to National disasters, poor levels of health care and poorer education outcomes than most other western economies, partly due to some degree to the huge cost of its military.
How do Americans bring this country back to a country of equality of opportunity and a liberal inclusive democracy that benefits most of its citizens? Can we try to avoid slagging off at America and hopefully put forward ideas that will prevent it from eventually going over an economic cliff and taking much of the world with it. Or do most think everything is just jim dandy.

Americans have to kill their TV's.
They have to quit believing government is their friend, and realize government is owned by giant pharmaceutical, military and petrol industries.
The corporations also own by in large the media.

Politicians should take vows of poverty and live with the homeless on the streets, then the people could trust them.

End the racist war on drugs. Native medicines like, Cannabis, Opium, Coca should be completely legal and untaxed and easily available to all.

Law enforcement and the judiciary re-tasked for education on human health outside of the purview of so called "experts" in the medical establishment of wholesale butchery and peddling highly dangerous pharmaceuticals.

That would be a good start in bringing the power back to the people.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Native medicines like, Cannabis, Opium, Coca

None of those are native to the US.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

How do Americans bring this country back to a country of equality of opportunity and a liberal inclusive democracy that benefits most of its citizens?

Right now America is in a fight for its soul. On one side you have a party that is completely beholden to its rich donors and is currently trying to ram through a tax bill that would be the biggest tax cut for the rich in history. A party that currently has an accused pedophile running for office in Alabama. A liberal democracy that benefits most citizens is not their priority. Serving the Oligarchs and corporations is and those very entities also control the news outlets that most of the Republican base watches and reads. Many of these people are convinced that the very tax bill mentioned will somehow "trickle down" to benefit them, they also believe many of the social programs that most western democracies provide for their citizens are bad evil "socialism". They are hoodwinked and in many cases, their minds can not be changed. When you add in the fact that many of them do not travel it compounds the situation because they do not see just what they are missing out on.

On the other side, you have a divided Democratic party. One side is the establishment and supported Hillary, they want to do a few things here and there for the people but do not want to rock the boat too much. On the other side, you have my camp. The progressives aka the Bernie Sanders supporters. We want rapid and far-reaching change to be implemented immediately. Things like getting money out of politics, universal healthcare, universal secondary education, raising taxes on the rich and most of the other things that literally all of the other western democracies already have.

The fight is real and I think many Americans are moving rapidly to the progressive cause especially the young who really energized the Sanders campaign last year. My hope is and after the recent election results, it seems to be looking like we will have a strong showing next year in the midterms. Even with Bernie being elected in 2020 fixing all that is wrong in the US will take many years if not decades. The country has been getting fucked up for decades and it will be a long road back to the time of the Eisenhower presidency when the middle class was the most prosperous in history and the rich were taxed at 91%.

I worry about Bernies' foreign policy agenda and The U.S. becoming more isolationist. Although many of the anti U.S. lobby may celebrate, the fact is an isolationist America would cause a huge world power vacuum. One which would be filled by the likes of China and Russia. Although The EU would be preferable to either of those,as it has the collective economic clout, but it would need a massive increase in military spending should the USA scale back its Nato contribution, something that would be hard to achieve and would have to be fitted in between the debate on the shape of bananas and cucumbers.

Disconnected and highly fanciful culture.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

I worry about Bernies' foreign policy agenda and The U.S. becoming more isolationist.

You are mistaken if you think Bernie is an isolationist. Less likely to start wars yes isolationist no.

There's definitely something wrong in a country where people like Trump and Moore aren't immediately dismissed as being entirely unsuited and unqualified to hold public office.

^ That something is called propaganda.

^ Propaganda is not the primary problem, too many idiots falling for it is.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

None of those are native to the US.

You always seem to miss the point...

Originally Posted by lom

^ Propaganda is not the primary problem, too many idiots falling for it is.

They gotta turn off the Television and quit watching Barney

Thank you for your red and "Fvck off" comment Hung slow or whatever the voices in your head have told you to call yourself this week. Was the pharmacy out of thorazine? Then again with the normal dribbling piss that comes out of your mouth, that is probably the most intelligent comment you have made for a while.
Obviously God in his infinite wisdom has seen no need to inflict you with the intelligence gene.
Are you married? If so, my deepest sympathies to that poor, poor woman whose life is so terribly burdened by your existence.

Originally Posted by Hugh Cow

I worry about Bernies' foreign policy agenda and The U.S. becoming more isolationist.

The current bozo with his complete lack of diplomatic smarts or general world knowledge is isolating the country by his personality and crassness. Bernie's policies could not nearly isolate the US as much.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

There's definitely something wrong in a country where people like Trump and Moore aren't immediately dismissed as being entirely unsuited and unqualified to hold public office.

The perfect product of a couple of decades of systematic dumbing-down.

Bernie Saunders, I like this bloke. What a shame he didn't get elected.
I must agree with him that the balance has become unacceptable.
It's getting quite surreal, regardless of your politics.

Originally Posted by Luigi

The perfect product of a couple of decades of systematic dumbing-down.

Longer than that:

The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

- H.L. Mencken, 26th July 1920.

Originally Posted by crackerjack101

Bernie Saunders, I like this bloke. What a shame he didn't get elected.
I must agree with him that the balance has become unacceptable.
It's getting quite surreal, regardless of your politics.

Yeah, Bernie is old school good manners, honour, and dignity, whatever his policies he's chalk to Trumps rancid cheese.
An interesting clip follows your vid, of Cuomo talking to Brietbart's editor. What stood out for me was what the Brietbart guy was saying. On the one hand he was explaining why Trump and Alabama may want Moore, but you could easily discern that even he (Brietbart!) would not want to excuse Moore. He basically said it's dumb tribalism.

Best hope for the the long run is for US is to break up into regional republics.

Originally Posted by uncle junior

Best hope for the the long run is for US is to break up into regional republics.

What a great idea. They could call them "States" or something.




Oh.

Originally Posted by Maanaam

Bernie is old school good manners, honour, and dignity, whatever his policies

These are the things I probably respect most in any human being.
Sadly it seems we've lost all that now, it's gone, finished, irrelevant.

"Honour and dignity" - gone.

I'd suggest that the loss of the value previously conferred on these 2 essentials of humanity are perhaps why the world in which we're struggling to survive is fucked.

There is no "honour or dignity" in any of the controlling forces in the world today, be they politicians, bankers or businessmen.

In the end they're all the same.

Despair, maybe;
ignore, an option;
hide, I reckon.

Sad for the kids and grand kids though.

Carry on.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

The electoral college existed for a reason. This last election proved that it no longer works. The electors were meant to have a personal opinion when they cast their vote. They no longer do that. It is just a rubber stamp.

The entire reason the electoral college existed was to prevent someone like Drumpf. It no longer works.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

What a great idea. They could call them "States" or something.

Republics vs states. big difference. In many ways things are already carried out regionally, ie, Pac Northwest, New England, Deep South, Mid Atlantic states etc. The Federal gov't's way too big to function as it was designed especially.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

They gotta turn off the Television and quit watching Barney

'barney'?