EU Collapse - the economic failure of a political project

[CaptainNemo]

Just look at public debt to GDP ratios across EU countries... not looking good for the EU surviving Brexit.

With the med dragging the whole project down, the prospect of EFTA as an alternative seems increasingly plausible

The Hanseatic League 2.0


With Brexit looming, a 21st century version of the alliance could be making a comeback

https://www.ft.com/content/83e0427c-...2-6786f39ef675

[Dragonfly]

non-sense,

first you should know that sovereign debt is used in the circulation of money, think of it as a cash advance to operate the economy, so the more debt, the better

second, debt to GDP ratio doesn't mean shit, it's a "false" ratio that has no real meaning, very useful for bored journalists or dead beat economists as it makes a good story to tell or write

it's like comparing your annual income with your 30 year mortgage, and claiming you are insolvent

so no collapse for now,

however China might default on on a lot of private debt that it has with international bankers

[Switch]

“the more debt the better.”

What a ludicrous statement.

The majority of EU debt comes from propping up failed economies like Greece , Italy and Spain. The French debt is underwritten by future CAP payments.

Sooner or later, the debt has to be repaid, no matter how many times the EU re writes it.

You are bit of a lightweight when it comes to economics, business or IT.

[Klondyke]

"Their ability to pay it back"???
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

[Grampa]

[david44]

Did LOS drop off like one of Teresa May's letters ?

[Hugh Cow]

“the more debt the better.”

What a ludicrous statement.

The majority of EU debt comes from propping up failed economies like Greece , Italy and Spain. The French debt is underwritten by future CAP payments.

Sooner or later, the debt has to be repaid, no matter how many times the EU re writes it.

You are bit of a lightweight when it comes to economics, business or IT.

Lightweight? I bow to your mastery of the understatement Switch. Blowfly is totally illiterate in those fields.

[lom]

I don't believe the article for the simple reason that U.S is orange on the map..

[Dragonfly]

“the more debt the better.”

What a ludicrous statement.

The majority of EU debt comes from propping up failed economies like Greece , Italy and Spain. The French debt is underwritten by future CAP payments.

Sooner or later, the debt has to be repaid, no matter how many times the EU re writes it.

You are bit of a lightweight when it comes to economics, business or IT.

Aren't you the silly poster who couldn't afford a small portfolio of 10,000 USD and was boasting about trading and how you were a master at it while in reality you had no clue of what you were doing ?

listen, amateur, debt doesn't matter, if you had finish Community college Econ 101, you would know about the complex mechanism between debt, money and the creation of growth

or you could listen to fake news and bloat it matters like a clueless chicken head, like you are doing now

[Dragonfly]

"Their ability to pay it back"???
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

the debt is eternal, you pay it back by issuing more debt etc...

what is more interesting and more useful is the annual government deficit, even though it's an accounting trick, and they can do pretty much what they want by creating or reducing deficit with provisions of future liabilities, notably social security defined benefits obligations

[Klondyke]

Measuring Sovereign Debt

Measuring sovereign debt is done differently per country. The measurement of sovereign debt depends on who is doing the measurement and why they are doing it. For example, a rating done by Standard & Poor's for businesses and investors only measures debt loaned by commercial creditors. This means that it does not include the money borrowed from other governm the World Bank, and other international financial institutions. At the same time, the European Union has limits on the total amount a Eurozone country is allowed to borrow. This means that the European Union has broader restrictions when measuring sovereign debt. As such, the European Union includes local government and state debt.

Read more: Sovereign Debt https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s...#ixzz4yIQNjPdb

[jabir]

the debt is eternal, you pay it back by issuing more debt etc...

what is more interesting and more useful is the annual government deficit, even though it's an accounting trick, and they can do pretty much what they want by creating or reducing deficit with provisions of future liabilities, notably social security defined benefits obligations

Is it good for the economy that individuals and businesses get into as much debt as they can and then avoid much of it by going bankrupt, or do your debt theories apply only to governments?

Please advise, and make no attempt at civility.

[Dragonfly]

Is it good for the economy that individuals and businesses get into as much debt as they can and then avoid much of it by going bankrupt, or do your debt theories apply only to governments?

Please advise, and make no attempt at civility.

it's actually a sensible question, I will try to simplify here

Debt for a country is complex, it has 2 purposes, it serves for the circulation of money and the creation for growth, and you should know that one of the biggest holder of US treasury is the Fed, a private organization with a purpose to regulate the economy through a complex play of managing the level of money in the economy. Second purpose is a source of finance for the government, from government large scale projects, to the annual deficit, but also to finance some growth programs etc... voted by parliament.

For private companies, it's a source of finance to finance their projects that will add to their growth through additional revenues. Debt is cheap and can finance a lot of growth projects easily and efficiently. At the same time it forces organizations to manage efficiently their operations by meeting their financial obligation every year, that means not spending the extra cash on silly projects that have no revenues at the end of the year. It's also tax deductible for the interests, so it provides a tax shield, making companies more profitable.

But like every good thing, abusing it can be lethal and lead to your destruction. Which is the case now for Chinese and SE Asian companies that have heavily borrowed US debt in 2011/2012 and even in 2014 when things were doing fine. Not so now.

Hope that answers some of your questions, news amateurs

[Switch]

Aren't you the silly poster who couldn't afford a small portfolio of 10,000 USD and was boasting about trading and how you were a master at it while in reality you had no clue of what you were doing ?

listen, amateur, debt doesn't matter, if you had finish Community college Econ 101, you would know about the complex mechanism between debt, money and the creation of growth

or you could listen to fake news and bloat it matters like a clueless chicken head, like you are doing now

No. You really are lightweight aren’t you.

Debt is still debt, even when used to promote growth. It has to be properly structured to succeed, unlike your darling EU where it just gathers dust and scammers.

[Switch]

But like every good thing, abusing it can be lethal and lead to your destruction. Which is the case now for Chinese and SE Asian companies that have heavily borrowed US debt in 2011/2012 and even in 2014 when things were doing fine. Not so now.

Just like your beloved EU. Cripple Greece with debt so there is no chance of escape.

[Dragonfly]

Just like your beloved EU. Cripple Greece with debt so there is no chance of escape.

Well, yes and no.

Greece, like the UK, should have never been part of the EU, not for the same reasons though.

Greece needed to up their game to be part of the EU, so they are playing catch up now, which is of course very painful. It will take maybe 20 years for them to recover, but when they do, they will be very strong. It will harden the fuckers for good.

[harrybarracuda]

Well, yes and no.

Greece, like the UK, should have never been part of the EU, not for the same reasons though.

Greece needed to up their game to be part of the EU, so they are playing catch up now, which is of course very painful. It will take maybe 20 years for them to recover, but when they do, they will be very strong. It will harden the fuckers for good.

It was the stupid cheese eating surrender monkeys and the squareheads that let third world countries like Greece into the EU, knowing that they'd just have their fucking hands out all the time.

Another good reason for Great Britain to leave the incompetent buffoons to their ridiculous little club.

[Dragonfly]

It was the stupid cheese eating surrender monkeys and the squareheads that let third world countries like Greece into the EU, knowing that they'd just have their fucking hands out all the time.

fucking true, yep. We fucked up badly here, even in early 2000, everyone was high on EU membership, terrible mistakes were made

that's why we have Macron now, he is going to reshuffle the whole thing

and you fuckers will be gone, added bonus, like rats leaving a ship

Another good reason for Great Britain to leave the incompetent buffoons to their ridiculous little club.

you were never really part of that club, always moaning about it. You should have never joined, but it was the only option for you fookers to save you from your own economic collapse. Never again.

so it's not all bad, if the current situation is a good motivator for you to fuck off, it all fucking worth it

the only thing is Ms May could fuck it all up and decide to stop the whole stupid process. Let's hope she doesn't before they hang her