Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by malmomike77

France threatens to cut UK and Jersey energy supply in fishing row

Fair enough - why continue to eb the whiny Brit bitches all the time

Originally Posted by Joe 90

The navy should sink a couple of French fishing boats, they've taken the piss for far too long

Umm . . . yea . . .

Originally Posted by malmomike77

I think its hilarious, the Germans are left coping with the petulant child

Why should Germany have to cope with the Brits? Do try to make sense

Originally Posted by malmomike77

Erm, i rather think its Micron doing the chest thumping Troy. I for one am hoping that France and the EU give it their best shot.

Contradicting yourself in one post - not a bad effort even for you, NPT. Just because you're paranoid . . .


Ah, Brexit - such a success . . .

Remainers are not about to surrender their belief in the damaging nature of Brexit. While it is tempting to ignore their arguments as whingeing, if we want to receive a fair hearing from history it is important to continue to engage. This article takes Martin Wolf of the FT to task for his characteristic pessimism

As we start life in post-Brexit Britain, we might have hoped for an end to division but no such luck. Since Remainers know for sure that Brexit in any form will harm the UK economy, and also threaten the very existence of the UK as a unified state, they will blame Brexit for future difficulties as often as possible. It is tempting to ignore provocation, but the verdict of history is at stake. If we want to secure a fair hearing, it is important to continue to engage. Indeed, the future of the union may depend on avoiding charges that Brexit has damaged British prosperity.

One of the chief authors of this first draft of Remainer history is Martin Wolf, doyen economist at the Financial Times. An astute, and hugely well-informed economics writer, Wolf has right from the start criticised Brexit as ‘a stupid act of national self-harm’ and he shows no sign of letting up. His latest piece, a deal to end Brexit delusions (FT, Dec 29) reprised his constant theme. He wrote about the Christmas Eve deal, ‘it is inevitably a damaging deal for the British economy compared with remaining inside the EU. But it is far better than the stupidity of no deal.’

The deal first gets it the neck for its timing. ‘No responsible government would leave mere days for business to adjust to the complexities of the new situation. Still less would it do so in the midst of a pandemic’. The main adjustments that businesses have to make concern customs arrangements including declarations and health certificates. Even if some final details have come late the need for these has been known about since the Withdrawal Agreement was signed a year ago. Whatever was going to be agreed, or not agreed, in the trade agreement, customs checks were always going to be necessary. Business has thus had plenty of warning and HMRC has spent many millions on publicising the need to prepare, including the need to get a customs registration number.

It is true that there is still official concern that large numbers of businesses have not bothered to register with HMRC or to take up their offers of training and advice. The worry is that many lorries will turn up at Dover without the correct certification leading to congestion, confusion and potentially aggravation. HMRC’s Operation Yellowhammer document assumed that failures of many businesses to adapt to new requirements might last more than six months. We are about to see whether there is anything much in these fears, or whether firms are not registering because they feel they do not need to. One reason is that some firms may be rather occasional exporters to the EU and will register when they need to. Another is that some firms with a small volume of export business may prefer to drop continental customers rather than pay the costs of a customs agent or learn customs regulations.

Martin Wolf’s criticism follows a well-worn path for Remainers. The government in his critical sights is the UK government. He never blames the EU for any shortcomings including leaving agreement until Christmas Eve. Negotiations appear to involve only one party. Anything that goes wrong is the fault of the UK. The implication is that UK negotiators should have accepted EU terms to get an early resolution. Or even better of course, not left the EU at all.

An apparent subsequent softening in Wolf’s tone a few paragraphs into his article might have lulled readers into a false sense of security. The Agreement reached at Christmas has some benefits he admits. These benefits of course turn out not to be material for the UK. The first is that the agreement allows the EU to get on with life without the troublesome Brits. The second is that the UK ‘will be able to separate reality from delusion’. The first delusion is the usual Remainer trope that Brexiteers said that agreement with the EU would be easy but have now learnt better. Brexiteers, it is true, argued that an FTA should have been easy between two countries which already had free trade, and which were fully aligned on regulations. The UK-Japan FTA, for instance took a matter of weeks. It is also true that politicians close to the EU, like Nick Clegg, had warned that the EU would make life difficult and so it proved. With a half-hearted, and eventually completely lost, UK government led by Theresa May the stage was set for a fiasco, only rescued when a secure and determined administration took power in December 2019.

The second delusion is that the UK could ever act as sovereign equal with a much larger EU. Despite its deluded mindset, Wolf then confusingly admits that the UK has negotiated a good deal. We cannot be allowed to get away scot free, however, since ‘any future rebalancing will have a far bigger impact on the UK than vice versa’. The agreed deal is of course reasonably good for the UK despite the disparity in size because the EU had more to gain than the UK in absolute terms from free trade in goods due to its large trade surplus. As Wolf points out, exports to the UK are 15% of EU external trade, a not insignificant amount. This trade is proportionately smaller than EU trade is for the UK but is much larger in absolute value. It is important for a significant number of EU firms and communities. As in all trade agreements the advantages are mutual and reciprocal. Why the balance of advantage should be very different in future is not explained.

The final delusion concerns taking back control. ‘The British people are about to lose valuable opportunities to do business, live, study and work in the EU. They will not take back control over their lives but lose it’. Some of this is unlikely to be true, for example the right to study in the EU, but even to the extent it is true, it is a limited list. Taking back control always referred to the UK and could never include rights inside the EU. Rights already gained include the rather important early implementation of Covid vaccination and the abolition of the tampon tax. Others are control over agriculture, allowing the UK to give greater emphasis to conservation and the environment. Many will value the right already gained to ban the export of live animals and other examples are likely to follow soon. Martin Wolf dismisses control over EU migration because non-EU migration has risen. The rise is true but does not mean that greater control over EU migration has not been gained.

None of these arguments is very impressive and at the end of his article he falls back on ‘virtually all economists believe the UK will be significantly poorer in the long run’. Indeed they do, but the question is, are they right. We do not believe so and Wolf has never acknowledged contrary research. Wolf’s arguments are largely still speculative, and it will be some time before there is real evidence about the actual impact of Brexit. Until such evidence is to hand, would it be too much to ask Martin Wolf to write about something else.

Oops forgot the flag

You must be so proud of ^^ and ^^^, just looking at the first point outlining how well the UK has done with vaccinations and deaths - the wording is an excellent example of pandering to a certain class of people . . .

Originally Posted by Joe 90

Covid
The uniquely early introduction of full scale Covid vaccination, in contrast with the EU’s disastrously slow and confused ‘coordinated’ response costing lives and businesses

UK - pop 62.7 million
infections 7.93 million
deaths 137.000
deaths in last seven days 694

Germany - pop 80 million
infections 4.27 million
deaths 93.700
deaths in last seven days 333

France - pop 67 million
infections. 7.12 million
deaths 118.000
deaths in last seven days 97

• COVID-19 deaths per capita by country | Statista

The UK is doing worse, much worse . . . but nothing but Brexit-style propaganda, backed up by chest-thumping xenophobia and lies. Facts don't matter, the truth is massaged, as is the ego of those who can't think for themselves.

That's just the first point made to prove how wonderful everything is and how awful it is across the channel - why even bother reading on when the first line is utter bullshit. It's as if Klongdick and OhWoe had a child and named it Brexit.

I believe that you are slogging along tongue-in-cheek a bit as you're by no means a dumb man, but posters like malmö-bring-it-on-Mike actually believe the shit that's fed to you.

The Uk can't hide their figures, total transparency unlike many countries who can't even begin to calculate or fathom their statistics.

What about those deaths that are non covid related but poor people in need of cancer treatments etc

They're not included in any countries toll.

Sorry state of affairs really.

Originally Posted by panama hat

you're by no means a dumb man.

And to think some people say you have no sense of humour.

Originally Posted by Joe 90

The Uk can't hide their figures, total transparency unlike many countries who can't even begin to calculate or fathom their statistics.

You're saying that the UK is more transparent than Germany or France? You're clearly not aware of the laws surrounding freedom of information . . . yet more British rubbish.

Originally Posted by Joe 90

What about those deaths that are non covid related but poor people in need of cancer treatments etc

They're not included in any countries toll.

Yet again, you're talking shit . . . with respect.

Originally Posted by Joe 90

Sorry state of affairs really.

I agree, but hopefully the UK will pull out of it, they need to be realistic first and accept the situation they're in and work on the problems instead of blaming the EU or France or Germany etc.. for every little thing

Originally Posted by cyrille

And to think some people say you have no sense of humour.

CCTV a bit quiet recently, when are you back in the sandpit?

I didn’t know that statista was a German based company with plenty of European offices, and just two outliers in the USA and Singapore!

90% of German speaking universities are now licensed for statista! Interesting

Originally Posted by panama hat

You're saying that the UK is more transparent than Germany or France? You're clearly not aware of the laws surrounding freedom of information . .
I agree, but hopefully the UK will pull out of it, they need to be realistic first and accept the situation they're in and work on the problems instead of blaming the EU or France or Germany etc.. for every little thing

I suspect that the stats site you quoted did not reference to the widely differing methodology for collecting such comparative statistics. I’m not aware of any other country that bases numbers on the 28 day rule, like UK does, erring on the side of caution.

The last paragraph also applies to EU intransigence in negotiations, and the EU insisting on applying their rules, and ignoring any other accepted norms, like logic and integrity.

Ironic isn’t it, that so long after ‘taking back control’, twitch is still blaming the EU for that shit BREXIT deal.

Originally Posted by Switch

I didn’t know that statista was a German based company with plenty of European offices, and just two outliers in the USA and Singapore!

I guess you purposely 'missed' several offices outside of Europe . . . and just for the fun of it we'll call Turkey 'Asia' because 97% of it is in Asia, though the point you're trying to make still escapes me.

Originally Posted by Switch

I didn’t know that

Originally Posted by panama hat

And your point is? Are you questioning the veracity of their numbers?


And another German company has a similar percentage worldwide. Does that frighten you?



You suspect, but have no proof . . . kind of like Joe saying that the UK has more transparency than elsewhere . . . also without proof.



That's up to you to both find out AND provide an explanation for its possible importance. I look forward to your research.



It does nothing of the sort but is yet another red herring thrown in by Brexiters who simply can't accept that the UK suffered, is suffering and will suffer from their decision. Own up to your shortcomings, stop always linking everything to the EU - like you just did again - and address the issues without whining about the terrible French, the awful Germans etc...

You wanted it, the rules were quite clear. You're out. Rejoice. Take responsibility for your actions and their outcomes.

I am questioning the lack of depth used by statista methodology for different countries when compiling data.

German companies are not very frightening. I rarely use links to prove a point, because most of them can be questioned for veracity and as a sceptic, that’s exactly what I choose to do.

Expecting the EU to behave properly, when the unique withdrawal circumstances worry them, is a bit like expecting turkey’s to vote for Christmas. You are being naive in the extreme if you expect both sides to play fair!

Both sides handled it badly, and continue to behave like spoiled children. Your intransigence is showing.

Lets face facts. The only way to return UK to membership, is with a Corbyn style socialist rebellion. Hence my policy is to make the most of it as it is. No winners and no losers, just plebs debating what might have happened but didn’t.

Originally Posted by Switch

I am questioning the lack of depth used by statista methodology for different countries when compiling data.

Ok, what are you questioning and what are they omitting, misleading, obfuscating etc...? Can you show that they are?

Originally Posted by Switch

I rarely use links to prove a point, because most of them can be questioned for veracity and as a sceptic, that’s exactly what I choose to do.

So, you're saying that nothing you write needs to have a basis in reality - not very useful in a discussion.

Originally Posted by Switch

Expecting the EU to behave properly, when the unique withdrawal circumstances worry them, is a bit like expecting turkey’s to vote for Christmas. You are being naive in the extreme if you expect both sides to play fair!

No, no, no. Tis is not about me nor the EU nor Germany nor France . . . This is about the UK government - and parts of the media - laying it out without bias and hyperbole, xenophobia and lies. Taking responsibility for your own actions is important and that's not something they're doing

Originally Posted by Switch

Both sides handled it badly, and continue to behave like spoiled children. Your intransigence is showing.

On side is playing by the rules set forth in the agreements which were agreed to by the UK. The other side isn't and still wants special care. Like spoiled children.
My intransigence? Hardly. I have nothing to do with this, as you have mentioned.

Originally Posted by Switch

Lets face facts.

Originally Posted by Switch

The only way to return UK to membership, is with a Corbyn style socialist rebellion.

Originally Posted by Switch

Lets face facts.

You said "Facts". This isn't a fact.

Originally Posted by Switch

Hence my policy is to make the most of it as it is. No winners and no losers, just plebs debating what might have happened but didn’t.

Fair enough, but it's not a matter of 'might'. Things ARE happening.


When do you think your government and the die-hard Brexit-proponents will stop blaming the EU/Brussels/Spain/Germany/France for every little thing? It'll never happen as you're doing exactly what China does - use propaganda to blame others for your own shortcomings.

First things first - get yourself a competent leader

Originally Posted by Switch

I suspect that the stats site you quoted did not reference to the widely differing methodology for collecting such comparative statistics. I’m not aware of any other country that bases numbers on the 28 day rule, like UK does, erring on the side of caution.

Doesn't this mean that the UK statistics will show less deaths related to Covid rather than more?

If this is the case then it can hardly be used to question the higher deaths from Covid in the UK compared to France and Germany.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Ok, what are you questioning and what are they omitting, misleading, obfuscating etc...? Can you show that they are?

I answered that in my first post on the subject. You chose to ignore that and go on a tirade about proof/links or some such.
Again, asked, answered by me, and ignored by you.

No idea why you are getting so antsy about it, especially when the impact on you personally is very limited.

Originally Posted by Troy

Doesn't this mean that the UK statistics will show less deaths related to Covid rather than more?

You are being deliberately obtuse. The reporting is different and the methodology will change from country to country, based on their view of the science and their ability to compile such information.

If anything the UK method is likely to include higher death rates than other methods. If the methodology is different by country, the comparisons are not really worth publishing.

Originally Posted by panama hat

When do you think your government and the die-hard Brexit-proponents will stop blaming the EU/Brussels/Spain/Germany/France for every little thing? It'll never happen as you're doing exactly what China does - use propaganda to blame others for your own shortcomings.

First things first - get yourself a competent leader

Please read my post again, in th context in which it is written. That is to say, blame apportioned to both sides, unless you believe the EU is a beacon of probity.

Brexit happened. The aftermath is what both sides must now endure. That’s where my use of the word might comes in!

I spoke previously about leadership, and the likelihood of change, and our inability to affect it. Both sides can cry about it, but the truth is, no one can change leadership and the direction of Brexit, unless Corbyn comes back and wins.

Another fact that is highly unlikely to change! If you need me or someone else to prove that fact, we could be here for months. Accept things you cannot change, life is so much simpler.

Originally Posted by Switch

If anything the UK method is likely to include higher death rates than other methods. If the methodology is different by country, the comparisons are not really worth publishing.

Well, it isn't like at all and your constant 'if' this and 'if' that isn't an argument

Originally Posted by Switch

Brexit happened. The aftermath is what both sides must now endure.

Yet only the Brits whine about it incessantly - THAT is the crux of this discussion.

Originally Posted by Switch

If anything the UK method is likely to include higher death rates than other methods.

How is excluding people that other countries include likely to lead to a higher figure?

You really do post absolute crap most of the time...

Originally Posted by panama hat

Well, it isn't like at all and your constant 'if' this and 'if' that isn't an argument


Yet only the Brits whine about it incessantly - THAT is the crux of this discussion.

Excuse me!
Im a Brit and I haven’t whined about anything apart from remainers complaining that Brexit isn’t fair, after the fact.?
I have had to put up with the gent, Troy, Cy and you, crying over spilt milk. As I said earlier, both sides have behaved badly, yet according to you, that makes me a whining Brit.

Again, I have to repeat, you will not be able to change anything. You have no direct connection to the UK, so why get het up about something you can’t possibly change?

The crux of this discussion, is the failure of losers on here, accepting that Brexit happened. They were not happy about it, but THEIR whining about it, and who is at fault for it will never change anything.

It is not whining about Brexit to say to all the remoaners, Brexit happened. You will not change it, so the best and most obvious thing to do is to STFU and move on.

Originally Posted by Switch

I have had to put up with the gent, Troy, Cy and you, crying over spilt milk

You're really banging at this, aren't you.

Because you think, in your infantile way, that it gets you out of having to offer one single thing about the UK that has been improved by BREXIT.

'Oh C'mon - stop moaning'.

'Moaning' being simply asking 'Give one example in which the UK is now in a better position after BREXIT'.

You really are laughably transparent.