Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

bring it on, fuckers

Brexit: France warns UK of bitter trade negotiations - BBC News

France has warned Britain to expect a bruising battle with the EU in post-Brexit trade negotiations.

French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian predicted the two sides would "rip each other apart" as they strove for advantage in the negotiations.

He also said it would be tough for the UK to achieve its aim of agreeing a free trade deal by the end of the year.

The UK government said it wanted a deal based on "friendly co-operation between sovereign equals".

Boris Johnson's chief Brexit negotiator is expected to give more details of the UK's negotiating aims in a speech in Brussels later.

David Frost is expected to say the UK will be happy with a trade deal based on that agreed by the EU with Canada in 2016 but to rule out any form of regulatory alignment with the bloc from 2021 onwards.

Originally Posted by sabang

I think discussions on a possible future European federal state belong on another thread. The march of the Eurocrats. But anyone who thought that the UK would ever be a part of it was being pretty naive. Maybe that is the most surprising thing about Brexit- the utter naivete and arrogance of the latte' classes, a real Ivory tower mentality from the self styled intelligentsia. Boy did they get it wrong. Anything but intelligent as it turned out- cloistered, arrogant and totally out of touch.

well said, and why we vetoed for some many years the UK membership, DeGaulles knew the English were not compatible with the vision of the founding fathers of the EU

it's one of the most controversial French president that lifted that veto, oh boy, what a mistake, and that's not the only one he made, plenty were made by him and his stupid cabinet of elitists. One of them was open immigration for Algerians, and we know why now they are all over the place here in France

the vision of the founding fathers of the EU

I'm not aware it was a vision of the founding fathers of the EU, BF. I think it is more likely it may have been shared by a few, but not others. Certainly, the level headed Teutonics have always seemed pretty cool on the idea.

But as the Common Market became the EC became the EU, and expanded willy nilly (and foolishly, as it turned out) so the idea of a federalised Europe seems to have grown- particularly amongst the Eurocracy, the same bunch that made so many mistakes in the first place, failed even to police their own policies, and landed the taxpayer with a massive bailout. The frivolous were rewarded at the expense of the frugal- the law breakers benefited, the law abiders were punished. Many Britons (not just brits) were left seething.

Do you think you'll ever be able to move beyond various forms of 'we won you lost ner ner na ner ner' ?

No wonder you want any aspect of the discussion that moves beyond that to be on another thread.

Not aware I've ever said that Syb, but I will now. You lost- deal with it. But I think your, umm, valued contributions and the patronizing responses to them are more likely to be found in the Doghouse sister thread, which I rarely delve into.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

well said, and why we vetoed for some many years the UK membership, DeGaulles knew the English were not compatible with the vision of the founding fathers of the EU

Erm, it certainly evolved over the decades, but what vision would that be? - just asking, in case someone doesn't believe it's possible for him to be scammed.

it's one of the most controversial French president that lifted that veto, oh boy, what a mistake, and that's not the only one he made, plenty were made by him and his stupid cabinet of elitists. One of them was open immigration for Algerians, and we know why now they are all over the place here in France

Don't complain, without de gaulkeeper you might be digging a tunnel out of Algeria.

Originally Posted by sabang

I'm not aware it was a vision of the founding fathers of the EU, BF. I think it is more likely it may have been shared by a few, but not others. Certainly, the level headed Teutonics have always seemed pretty cool on the idea.

I am sure we could find old British TV shows discussing the CU back in the 1970s, and what it meant

anyway, maybe the British MPs were hiding that little detail to their constituents

but for everyone else in the EU, it has always been clear, and very publicly since 1992, that the purpose would be eventually a full integration

You're right there- that is exactly what the old crusties were raving on about! Lets face it, they did have a point.
I always thought that the common market was a great idea as an economic, cultural and quasi political union- but when ideas of ceding national sovereignty are raised, it's Brexit for me. Seems the average Brit thought likewise.
Hey, how about a two tier union- where those that want to pursue a full political union are tier one, and those that are more in it for the shared economic benefits, tier two? But doubt that's worth discussing, in these cantankerous times.
Wailers gonna moan.

full political integration is the logic way forward to avoid internal competition on taxes and business environment,

and the EU Army will make sure everyone is on the same page in terms of global security, creating a new shield against the US, China and the Great Russia

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

and the EU Army will make sure everyone is on the same page in terms of global security, creating a new shield against the US, China and the Great Russia

Holy christ Buttfly, you have come out with some funny shit over the past 3 years but you just popped the cherry on a whole new level of deluded hilarity

^^ And how did that work out for the Warsaw Pact? Or even Yugoslavia?

Originally Posted by sabang

You're right there- that is exactly what the old crusties were raving on about! Lets face it, they did have a point.

I always thought that the common market was a great idea as an economic, cultural and quasi political union- but when ideas of ceding national sovereignty are raised, it's Brexit for me.

... Yep

Originally Posted by jabir

As of posting that, you don't think the ultimate goal of the EU is USofE?

Crikey I wish you the best of luck in life, you clearly need it.

I'm quite sure that some Eurocrats fully believe this is the ultimate goal. However, in practice it will take a large proportion of the EU community to also believe before it can succeed. That majority in not forthcoming in Europe any more than it was in the UK.

The EU has expanded far more and far quicker than originally intended. I believe that was largely due to UK and US influence...trying to turn Eastern bloc into Western bloc to capitalise on the break-up of the Soviet Union. It caused friction within the EU and the UK was very much to blame...to the point a backlash was inevitable.

I am happy to receive luck from anywhere and everyone. Please send as much as you can.

Meanwhile, the point I was trying to make appears to have found its target

Originally Posted by Troy

The EU has expanded far more and far quicker than originally intended. I believe that was largely due to UK and US influence...trying to turn Eastern bloc into Western bloc to capitalise on the break-up of the Soviet Union. It caused friction within the EU and the UK was very much to blame...to the point a backlash was inevitable.

Good grief i never knew the UK had that much influence, our votes must have each been like golden shares. One can only apologise to the EU for making such a mess of the club.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

but for everyone else in the EU, it has always been clear, and very publicly since 1992, that the purpose would be eventually a full integration

Nonsense.

Originally Posted by Troy

That majority in not forthcoming in Europe any more than it was in the UK.

^ This

Anyway, Northern Macedonia is next in line- why bother about the fractious poms anyway? Northern Macedonia- I never knew there was such a country, and I'm supposedly European.
So perhaps the real challenge facing the EU is to prevent another outbreak of the Peloponnesian Wars.

Originally Posted by Troy

The USofE is nothing more than a straw man the Brexit dreamers made up so that they can convince themselves the EU is all wrong and bound to fail.
It sits next to the Turkish joining with 90m people invading the UK and the Euro has to be adopted...and an EU army to replace national ones.

Project fear from both sides...

Sorry Troy, but you have swallowed the myth.
Ever greater federalization is the short, medium and long term aspiration of all the major players in the Union, and iinforms everything that the commission seeks to implement.

Originally Posted by sabang

Northern Macedonia- I never knew there was such a country, and I'm supposedly European.

So this time your ignorance makes Northern Macedonia look so bad there!

Dunno- how's southern Macedonia? Seeing as they are in line to join your beloved EU, maybe you should get a job teaching them basic English.

As I remember.'Southern' Macedonia is a large area in Northern Greece and has been a bit miffed that 'Macedonia' seemed to consider itself the sum of the country. I suppose that's why it might have been renamed Northern Macedonia. I also remenber that Thaksin was rumoured to have applied for a passport there, that it is spectacularly beautiful and would have been great for a visa free visit.

Maybe you should do a TESL course, try working there and stop your ignorance from seemingly saying somethin teliing about them.

Must be better than being Australian in Australia, which you seem to have difficulty coming to terms with.

Originally Posted by NamPikToot

Good grief i never knew the UK had that much influence, our votes must have each been like golden shares. One can only apologise to the EU for making such a mess of the club.

I summed it up, back in 2016, as the UK leaving the EU to hold the baby...

I believe Eastern bloc price for entering NATO was EU membership. The pressure was put on the EU by UK and USA.

You're welcome.

More stuff that BREXITers don't know making the things they don't know about look bad.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

full political integration is the logic way forward to avoid internal competition on taxes and business environment,

and the EU Army will make sure everyone is on the same page in terms of global security, creating a new shield against the US, China and the Great Russia

Just how completely out of touch with reality can one person be. Despite what you might think, France does not lead, or rule the EU you gormless little fool.
The further the ideologues go, the worse it gets for everyone. The more you try to manipulate the socially engineered union, the harder you will fall.
NATO can do a much better job, but that would mean France being a paying member and taking orders from their betters. That will never happen under any umbrella safety net, even an EU army.
You assume that the French would have a major say in the use and functions of an EU Army. That’s like giving your teenage son, the keys to your Ferrari and the liquor cabinet.

Originally Posted by Troy

I'm quite sure that some Eurocrats fully believe this is the ultimate goal. However, in practice it will take a large proportion of the EU community to also believe before it can succeed. That majority in not forthcoming in Europe any more than it was in the UK.

The EU has expanded far more and far quicker than originally intended. I believe that was largely due to UK and US influence...trying to turn Eastern bloc into Western bloc to capitalise on the break-up of the Soviet Union. It caused friction within the EU and the UK was very much to blame...to the point a backlash was inevitable.

I am happy to receive luck from anywhere and everyone. Please send as much as you can.

Meanwhile, the point I was trying to make appears to have found its target

It sounds like you are trying to blame the British for encouraging former Warsaw Pact countries to join the EU, but denying that the French are only happy if they are allowed a major say in running the show. The saving grace in all this, is Macron trying and failing to lead his own country, while extolling the primacy of France in whatever engineered result they arrive at?