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  1. #19201
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    Talks between the UK and EU over a post-Brexit trade agreement are "over", Downing Street has said.


    No 10 said there was "no point" in discussions continuing next week unless the EU was prepared to discuss the detailed legal text of a partnership.


    Earlier, Boris Johnson said the UK had to "get ready" to trade with the EU next year without an agreement.


    The EU has said it is willing to "intensify" discussions but it will not do a deal "at any price".


    The UK set a deadline of Thursday to decide whether it was worth continuing talks amid disagreements in key areas.


    The EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier due in London next week for further discussions but Downing Street suggested his trip would be pointless unless the EU shifted its position.







    "There is only any point in Michel Barnier coming to London next week if he's prepared to address all the issues on the basis of a legal text in an accelerated way, without the UK required to make all the moves or to discuss the practicalities of travel and haulage," the prime minister's official spokesman said.


    "If not there is no point in coming."


    He added: "Trade talks are over. The EU have effectively ended them by saying they do not want to change their negotiating position."


    Speaking in Downing Street earlier, Mr Johnson suggested the EU was unwilling to seriously consider the UK's preferred option of a comprehensive free trade agreement based on the bloc's existing arrangement with Canada.


    The UK, he added, must look at the "alternative" - which he suggested was Australia's much-more limited set of agreements with the EU.




    "The talks are over."


    As statements go, those four words from the prime minister's spokesman this afternoon were something of a bombshell.


    But Michel Barnier, who's due to come to London next week to continue talks, might not be unpacking his briefcase just yet.


    There's no doubt that Downing Street is sending the clearest signal possible that it expects the EU to make the next move in these negotiations.


    And the rhetoric accompanying the talks has reached a new level.


    But both sides still want a deal, the process has not broken down and there is still time to reach an agreement.


    It's one thing to declare the talks over, it's another thing to refuse to continue talking.




    The prime minister said: "I have concluded we should get ready for 1 January with arrangements more like Australia's based on simple principles of global free trade.


    "So now is the time for our businesses to get ready, and for hauliers to get ready, and for travellers to get ready.


    "For whatever reason it is clear from the summit that after 45 years of membership they are not willing - unless there is some fundamental change of approach - to offer this country the same terms as Canada.


    "And so with high hearts and complete confidence we will prepare to embrace the alternative."




    Brussels 'deeply unimpressed'

    IMAGE COPYRIGHTREUTERS
    image captionMrs von der Leyen (R) left the summit early after exchanging views with EU leaders
    By BBC Brussels correspondent Nick Beake


    Boris Johnson's public declaration that the UK should prepare for No Deal did not cause great concern within EU circles.


    The immediate response came in a tweet from Commission President Ursula von der Leyen who said it was full steam ahead for trade talks next week and that EU negotiators would be getting on their Eurostar to London as planned.


    But the subsequent statement from the prime minister's official spokesman - off-camera, but on-the-record - that the "trade talks are over" has left senior diplomats "deeply unimpressed", as one put it to me.


    Although "we're getting used to being part of Johnson's pantomime", they added.


    Some EU figures fear Boris Johnson still doesn't know if he actually wants a deal and is trying to buy time while be grapples with the Covid crisis.


    Following the hardening the British position by Number 10, France's President Macron called on the prime minister to make up his mind, while there was still time.


    Many in Brussels remain "cautiously optimistic" some sort of deal can be agreed but any route there is now even harder to see.




    The EU and Australia began discussions on a trade deal last year. At the moment, their trade is based on a much looser, decade-old partnership and is governed by World Trade Organization (WTO) rules.


    This means there are tariffs, or taxes, on Australian goods sold into the EU and vice-versa.







    The UK and EU had been hoping for a "zero-tariff" agreement to govern their trading relationship once the UK's post-Brexit transition period ends in December.


    Both sides are calling on each other to compromise on key issues, including fishing and limits on government subsidies to businesses.


    Labour's shadow Cabinet Office Minister Rachel Reeves urged the UK government to "step back from the brink" and "stop posturing".


    "Any tariffs or any delays at the border will make it harder for goods to flow freely, whether those are foods or medicines," she said.

  2. #19202
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    You cannot agree a legal text if the terms subject to that text are not first specified and agreed in detail. The EU quite reasonably wishes for any concordat to be congruent with the interests of its 27 countries in accordance with long established principles and policy in order that economic stability inherent in its charter is not undermined by future English duplicity and underhandedness. The WA was signed off by both parties but within six months the slimy English sought to unpick its terms relating to NI. The Clown and his rabble of course want to have a broad agreement signed off which they then can weasel out of at their convenience and whim arguing that they have the headroom to do so according to their interpretation. Once bitten, twice shy and messrs Macron et al have told him to fuck off if he continues to be an arsehole.

    The EU will not play this silly game of "time is running out" and have heaped derision on the Clown's latest arbitrary deadline which is in fact the third the fat twat has imposed during the process as he seeks to posture and puff his impersonation of a cod Churchill.

    The EU are the honest brokers in this and one must admire their patience. They have given the Clown yet another chance to act like a proper PM but frankly I don't think they should. Still, I daresay it's just more bravura from a face-saving BoJo who will have been told by the Treasury, the CBI, the unions and just about every fucker who has an economic dog running in this race that they are nowhere near to a position when they can deal with a tariff regime.

    Then again, he is a jackass clown whose brains have been scrambled by his inherent vices and COVID.

  3. #19203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    The EU are the honest brokers in this and one must admire their patience.
    This is complete nonsense. The EU believe that they can bully their way to an agreement in their favour, based on the size of the EU.
    The UK have, quite rightly, had enough of this tiresome superiority complex. Barnier wants to continue sucking the Brussels teat as long as he can, the pointless, wittering Shitcunt.

    Why are Macron and van der Layden issuing statements counter to what Barnier has said? Pointless prevarication at all levels, and that’s just on the EU side!

  4. #19204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    The EU are the honest brokers in this and one must admire their patience


    Ffs there's nothing honest about them, they want as much as they can get , the corrupt wankers.

    No deal,they can fvck off with their begging bowl.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    You cannot agree a legal text if the terms subject to that text are not first specified and agreed in detail. The EU quite reasonably wishes for any concordat to be congruent with the interests of its 27 countries in accordance with long established principles and policy in order that economic stability inherent in its charter is not undermined by future English duplicity and underhandedness. The WA was signed off by both parties but within six months the slimy English sought to unpick its terms relating to NI. The Clown and his rabble of course want to have a broad agreement signed off which they then can weasel out of at their convenience and whim arguing that they have the headroom to do so according to their interpretation. Once bitten, twice shy and messrs Macron et al have told him to fuck off if he continues to be an arsehole.

    The EU will not play this silly game of "time is running out" and have heaped derision on the Clown's latest arbitrary deadline which is in fact the third the fat twat has imposed during the process as he seeks to posture and puff his impersonation of a cod Churchill.

    The EU are the honest brokers in this and one must admire their patience. They have given the Clown yet another chance to act like a proper PM but frankly I don't think they should. Still, I daresay it's just more bravura from a face-saving BoJo who will have been told by the Treasury, the CBI, the unions and just about every fucker who has an economic dog running in this race that they are nowhere near to a position when they can deal with a tariff regime.

    Then again, he is a jackass clown whose brains have been scrambled by his inherent vices and COVID.
    everything is going exactly as we expected,

    Brits renegading on their words and playing silly, like they have been doing since they joined the ECC

    can't wait for the cahos to start in 2021 and see you British fookers on your knees begging for clemency

    we shall then you decapitate you as properly done for enemy of state

  6. #19206
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    Butters, while I can well understand your occasional linguistic collapse is no doubt attributable to possible intoxication further influencing the not entirely insignificant fact English is not your first language, one can offer no such excuse for the drivel spouted by messrs Chas and Shitty whose ineptitude clearly resolves to incipient dementia, in the case of Chas, and utter foolishness as manifested by Shitty.

    It really is quite amusing that these idiots, akin to the millions of other Brexit morons, have failed to process the fact that in implementing the new tariff regime incumbent in the future export and import of goods between the UK and the EU after 1.1.21, it will now cost British traders over 15 billion annually in order to impede commerce between themselves and their former markets whereas unfettered trade with 470 millions under the terms of its EU membership only cost 9 billions and yielded an unrestricted benefit of 250 billions to the UK's annual GDP.

    The repeated bombastic blustering from the fatuous blowhard BoJo is that Britain will prosper mightily now it has created barriers to trade with the EU but, as ever, he fails to specify just how. Most if not all commentators agree that the reality is that Britain will show a loss of over 100 billions arising from Brexit which cannot be set off by the prospects of other world trade which on any analysis simply does not exist.

    This arrant nonsense of Brexit was always a systemic threat to the people of Britain but now with COVID it is verging on catastrophic.

    As the late great Stanley Kubrick would have had it, I am learning to love the approaching disaster but now with a new found relish as the stupid English squirm and writhe in the forthcoming realisation they have fucked themselves irrevocably in the ass for years to come.
    Last edited by Seekingasylum; 18-10-2020 at 10:20 AM.

  7. #19207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    Butters, while I can well understand your occasional linguistic collapse is no doubt attributable to possible intoxication further influencing the not entirely insignificant fact English is not your first language, one can offer no such excuse for the drivel spouted by messrs Chas and Shitty whose ineptitude clearly resolves to incipient dementia, in the case of Chas, and utter foolishness as manifested by Shitty.

    It really is quite amusing that these idiots, akin to the millions of other Brexit morons, have failed to process the fact that in implementing the new tariff regime incumbent in the future export and import of goods between the UK and the EU after 1.1.21, it will now cost British traders over 15 billion annually in order to impede commerce between themselves and their former markets whereas unfettered trade with 470 millions under the terms of its EU membership only cost 9 billions and yielded an unrestricted benefit of 250 billions to the UK's annual GDP.

    The repeated bombastic blustering from the fatuous blowhard BoJo is that Britain will prosper mightily now it has created barriers to trade with the EU but, as ever, he fails to specify just how. Most if not all commentators agree that the reality is that Britain will show a loss of over 100 billions arising from Brexit which cannot be set off by the prospects of other world trade which on any analysis simply does not exist.

    This arrant nonsense of Brexit was always a systemic threat to the people of Britain but now with COVID it is verging on catastrophic.

    As the late great Stanley Kubrick would have had it, I am learning to love the approaching disaster but now with a new found relish as the stupid English squirm and writhe in the forthcoming realisation they have fucked themselves irrevocably in the ass for years to come.
    More hand wringing from Uriah Heep. The worlds mot loved clerk.

  8. #19208
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    I rather think in the context of Brexit ostrich-like neanderthals, I am a Cassandra doomed to be disregarded.

    The truth of the Brexit failure and its enormity, however, will engulf you and your ilk as surely as your own stupidity.

  9. #19209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    Butters, while I can well understand your occasional linguistic collapse is no doubt attributable to possible intoxication further influencing the not entirely insignificant fact English is not your first language, one can offer no such excuse for the drivel spouted by messrs Chas and Shitty whose ineptitude clearly resolves to incipient dementia, in the case of Chas, and utter foolishness as manifested by Shitty.

    It really is quite amusing that these idiots, akin to the millions of other Brexit morons, have failed to process the fact that in implementing the new tariff regime incumbent in the future export and import of goods between the UK and the EU after 1.1.21, it will now cost British traders over 15 billion annually in order to impede commerce between themselves and their former markets whereas unfettered trade with 470 millions under the terms of its EU membership only cost 9 billions and yielded an unrestricted benefit of 250 billions to the UK's annual GDP.

    The repeated bombastic blustering from the fatuous blowhard BoJo is that Britain will prosper mightily now it has created barriers to trade with the EU but, as ever, he fails to specify just how. Most if not all commentators agree that the reality is that Britain will show a loss of over 100 billions arising from Brexit which cannot be set off by the prospects of other world trade which on any analysis simply does not exist.

    This arrant nonsense of Brexit was always a systemic threat to the people of Britain but now with COVID it is verging on catastrophic.

    As the late great Stanley Kubrick would have had it, I am learning to love the approaching disaster but now with a new found relish as the stupid English squirm and writhe in the forthcoming realisation they have fucked themselves irrevocably in the ass for years to come.
    absolutely brilliant prose,

  10. #19210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    I rather think in the context of Brexit ostrich-like neanderthals, I am a Cassandra doomed to be disregarded.

    The truth of the Brexit failure and its enormity, however, will engulf you and your ilk as surely as your own stupidity.
    Haven't you heard thegent? Britain's economic salvation lies with a new fighter jet ! Nothing like a good debt riddled bureaucratic military white elephant to get the economy going !

    Britain Banks On Tempest Future Fighter Program As Its Next Great Hope In Combat Airpower


    A group of leading British defense aerospace companies, helmed by BAE Systems, has laid out the latest details regarding the ambitious Tempest next-generation fighter program, against a compelling backdrop of potential benefits to the United Kingdom. A new study detailing the economic contribution of the Tempest program predicts that it could support an average of 20,000 jobs every year between 2026 and 2050, plus it would contribute at least 25.3 billion, or nearly $32.7 billion at the present rate of exchange, to the British economy in the first 30 years of the project.

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    ^ amazing but did they mention how much it would cost the taxpayers during those 30 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    ^ amazing but did they mention how much it would cost the taxpayers during those 30 years?
    The project is in its infancy, projections based on conjecture and blind hatred are SA’s forte.

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    It should be interesting to see which one gets off the ground first; the Euro FCAS currently supported by a Franco-Spanish-German consortium or the Tempest.

    TSR2 anyone?

    Costs will be prodigious and one wonders just how much the British taxpayers will stomach the billions to be poured into the coffers of BAe at their expense for a machine that will never be sold to any other meaningful consumer - the Italians will of course withdraw from the venture when they realise the sheer enormity of this fatuous British white elephant.

    The desert jockeys will of course continue to buy American as indeed will the British when this silly "Tempest in a teacup" nonsense blows over.

    It is as likely as the barking mad gibberish spouted by the raddled and increasingly deranged BoJo that Britain will be wholly reliant on wind power by 2030.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    The project is in its infancy
    So much in infancy that they could estimate the minimum amount it will contribute to the British economy, eh?
    One would have thought that they could then also predict the minimum cost for the buyers, ie the British tax payers, without that the 25.3 billion in gain can't be evaluated as good or bad but that is probably the intention.
    May the bridges I burn light my way

    There is no plan for no deal because we're going to get a great deal - Boris Johnson in HoC 11 July 2017

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    The Lockheed Martin F35 has a lifetime development/production cost of $1.5 trillion which is to be offset by sales of its variants over the next generation at an average cost of $100 million per aircraft.

    I rather think that illustrates the size of the ballpark in which BAe and the British taxpayer are playing. As I said, the only losers are the British taxpayers but as it will never fly those grievous losses will be avoided, but only after a few billions have been paid out to the corporate chums and cronies of Tory wankerdom.

    These sophisticated machines require huge and prolonged investment that can only be made by those assured of a market or by dictatorships.

    The Tempest will have no buyers but perhaps the Tory scum have other plans for broken-down Brexitania when it loses Scotland to the EU and NI to the Irish.

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    Turkey, South Korea, Japan and India all have half assed home grown 5th generation fighter programs. So that eliminates a lot of export potential. That just leaves Canada. Since we backpedaled on the F-35 so far. Maybe the Tory wanks are buttering up Trudeau right now for a contract.

    The UK could probably build a good airplane. They shouldn't have given up the industry (military and civilian) back in the day. But its gone now. The Tempest is just an attempt to reach back for that old glory and its not going to work.

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    ^^ I agree SA, Tempest is a dead duck. I can't see anything right about it and plenty of things wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    So much in infancy that they could estimate the minimum amount it will contribute to the British economy, eh?
    One would have thought that they could then also predict the minimum cost for the buyers, ie the British tax payers, without that the 25.3 billion in gain can't be evaluated as good or bad but that is probably the intention.
    Estimate and predict. See my earlier post on the influence of former civil servants.

  19. #19219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^^ I agree SA, Tempest is a dead duck. I can't see anything right about it and plenty of things wrong.
    British, German and Thai expertise in military engineering. You heard it here first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    The Lockheed Martin F35 has a lifetime development/production cost of $1.5 trillion which is to be offset by sales of its variants over the next generation at an average cost of $100 million per aircraft.

    I rather think that illustrates the size of the ballpark in which BAe and the British taxpayer are playing. As I said, the only losers are the British taxpayers but as it will never fly those grievous losses will be avoided, but only after a few billions have been paid out to the corporate chums and cronies of Tory wankerdom.

    These sophisticated machines require huge and prolonged investment that can only be made by those assured of a market or by dictatorships.

    The Tempest will have no buyers but perhaps the Tory scum have other plans for broken-down Brexitania when it loses Scotland to the EU and NI to the Irish.
    If you think the F35 is an overblown farce, wait until you see what MoD civil service procurement executives can do with Tempest.

    Did you know that Wales was once flat? They pushed it up into mountains to keep the English bean counters out.

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    The thing with Chas's posts is that although one may well comprehend that they are couched in English they remain incomprehensible gibberish utterly disconnected from the thread in which they nestle and usually rooted in a logic only known to a swivel-eyed loon engaging in the consumption of hallucinogenic substances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    The thing with Chas's posts is that although one may well comprehend that they are couched in English they remain incomprehensible gibberish utterly disconnected from the thread in which they nestle and usually rooted in a logic only known to a swivel-eyed loon engaging in the consumption of hallucinogenic substances.
    Just settle for place in history old man. You don’t really have a dog in this fight, yet your belligerence suggests otherwise.

    An Ill fated condo in Pattaya, with no storm drains, waiting for El Nina. Not much to speak of is it?

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    ^ I hazard to guess that he's earning GPB in some capacity. And Brexit has put more depreciative pressure on said currency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    ^ I hazard to guess that he's earning GPB in some capacity. And Brexit has put more depreciative pressure on said currency.
    It’s probably much simpler than that. He’s probably the product of a catholic boarding school environment. That would explain the guilt and the anger.

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    It appears the talks that were declared "over" by Bo-Jo last week will resume tomorrow.

    Bo-jo really should look at the hand he's been dealt and play it wisely. It's a bit of a bugger when you've been dealt a Yarborough.

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