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  1. #19126
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Swiss voters will decide on Sunday whether to abandon their free movement of people agreement with the EU.

    Supporters say the move will allow Switzerland to control its borders and select only the immigrants it wants.

    Opponents argue it will plunge a healthy economy into recession, and deprive hundreds of thousands of Swiss citizens of their freedom to live and work across Europe.

    The justice minister says that would create a situation "worse than Brexit".

    Switzerland decided long ago not to join the EU, but it does want access to Europe's free-trade area, and it wants to co-operate with Brussels in areas like transport, the environment, and research and education.

    The price for this is to sign up to the EU's major policy "pillars" including free movement, and Schengen open borders.

    The EU has consistently told the Swiss there will be no cherry-picking: leaving free movement would mean leaving those lucrative trade arrangements too.

    Switzerland gets ready to vote on ending free movement with EU - BBC News

  2. #19127
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Nope. Everyone loves to hate the Euro thanks to the loudspeaker of anti EU propaganda coming from the US and UK. Americans know nothing about Europe. But they all think the Euro currency is about to go poof. Yeah. The biggest creditor currency in the world, is gonna go poof. Fucking nonsense. This is coming from the 2 supreme dual debtors in the whole world. The US and UK

    So again. Anyone with brains converts their money into a creditor currency. I have a 100k worth of Euros myself

    At the risk of belabouring the point, good (free) advice is to park your Euro in Germany, because when it goes pop you'll be much better off with Deutschemark than drachma or lira.


  3. #19128
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    One is increasingly reading the propaganda generated by panicking Brexit loonies that the EU will not countenance a no-deal Brexit because they fear their own interests will be seriously damaged.

    This is hogwash bullshit generated by Goebbels Cummings and his shill cock suckers trying to manipulate the process. Merkel, Macron, Von der Leyen et al are not going to fold.

    If Britain wants the cherries and continued access to EU markets it will have to pay. If it didn't then the EU as a mutual system sustained by members contributing in a common alignment would be undermined - why pay for a club if you let a chiselling, two-bit cheapskate in for free sort of thing.

    BoJo will do what he did before, he will concede, sign an agreement and then try to renege on a later date hoping no-one cares or is interested. The trouble is, whereas the Tory Brexit scum have no ethics worth a wet fart or functioning doctrine of any integrity, the EU is a law-abiding responsible institution founded on a rule of law and will not tolerate egregious third country banana states like broken-down Brexit Britain and its rabble government of carpetbagging tax evading shysters cheating on their agreements. This will only end when this Tory trash government dies and the lumpen Brexiteers take their pointy heads out of their puckering arseholes.

  4. #19129
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    How do you think the UK should respond if Switzerland votes to close its borders and the EU lets it do it without penalty?

  5. #19130
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Because of COVID?

  6. #19131
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    Because of COVID?
    Don't think so:

    Thomas Aeschi of the SVP believes abandoning free movement will bring all sorts of advantages, from "being able to select the highest qualified immigrants" to "less land speculation, lower house prices, and lower rents".

    He does not fear the loss of trade deals, arguing the only likely effect is "the Swiss will eat less French cheese and the French will eat less Swiss cheese".


  7. #19132
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    No freedom of movement no free trade will apply to the Swiss as well and they realise this.

  8. #19133
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    The cornerstones of membership.

    Who doesn't understand this apart from BREXIT boneheads.


  9. #19134
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    The cornerstones of membership.

    Who doesn't understand this apart from BREXIT boneheads.

    Switzerland aren't a member. Or isn't a member.

    And the EU have a 48Bn euro trade surplus with Switzerland, so would they cut off their noses to spite their faces?

    Added: It's all moot of course because they have to vote for it first. But if they do, the EU have a decision to make. Fuck them over or give Britain the same pass. There will be some wailing and gnashing in Brussels tonight.
    Last edited by harrybarracuda; 27-09-2020 at 05:24 PM.

  10. #19135
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Switzerland aren't a member. Or isn't a member.
    No, I meant from a British perspective. And CH is a member of the single market.

    They're calling it 'SWEXIT', nevertheless.



    Anyway, if it's passed in principle then there will be another vote on it once an agreement has been settled.

    It won't be like the UK when the people were promised a land of milk and honey, said 'yes please' and then got presented with an utter shitshow instead.

  11. #19136
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    But it would be a handy bargaining chip for the UK. Be interesting to see how this turns out.

    At least the Swiss can't nick our fish.


  12. #19137
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    Unlike the lumpen stupid British the Swiss have had the nous to reject this stupid proposition by a handsome majority.

    Nope, fuckwit deadbeat broken down Brexit Britain is alone in having the greatest majority of gormless knuckle draggers in western Europe.

  13. #19138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    No freedom of movement no free trade will apply to the Swiss as well and they realise this.
    As I said the Swiss realise the loss of free trade and loss of freedom of movement of their own citizens is too much.

    Everyone knows this except....brexiteers.

  14. #19139
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    The Swiss understand economic basics rather better than a Brexiter and they're not as deluded about their standing in the world.

    But then the list of stuff Brexiters don't quite grasp is inordinately lengthy.

    It's ironic really, but they also take more genuine pride in their nationality, unlike Brexiters. These people view the nation's ever diminishing assets in much the same way as Del Boy views a dodgy consignment he's hoping to offload from a market stall in Peckham.

  15. #19140
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Thomas Aeschi of the SVP believes abandoning free movement will bring all sorts of advantages
    He and his party are extreme right-wing and nationalists, they've got a 25% following in Switzerland.
    That their motion was voted down by the other 75% sane citizens did not come as a surprise.

  16. #19141
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Swiss hard cheese.

  17. #19142
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    So, is Gove going to get the UK out of this mess today and concede ground on a couple of issues...

  18. #19143
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    Michael Gove: Brexit provisions to stay in Internal Market Bill - BBC News

    Mr Gove said the talks on implementing the withdrawal agreement are at a "healthy stage".

  19. #19144
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    ^ are they still only at the withdrawal agreement, I thought they were negotiating a trade deal.

  20. #19145
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    ^ obviously they are still fighting over the WA

    BRUSSELS/LONDON (Reuters) - The European Union and Britain both said a post-Brexit deal was still some way off and differences persisted on Monday over putting in place their earlier divorce deal as they began a decisive week of talks in Brussels.
    May the bridges I burn light my way

    There is no plan for no deal because we're going to get a great deal - Boris Johnson in HoC 11 July 2017

  21. #19146
    Alpha Monger
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    I wonder what thegent thinks of monarchy

  22. #19147
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    ^

    However, from today's Times:

    Hopes of deal rise as EU says it is ready to work on legal agreement




    Oliver Wright, Policy Editor | Bruno Waterfield, Brussels


    Tuesday September 29 2020, 12.01am BST, The Times


    Brexit








    Michel Barnier and Lord Frost will work on a joint draft version of a free trade agreement this week
    OLIVER HOSLET/REUTE
    European negotiators have indicated for the first time that they are prepared to start writing a joint legal text of a trade agreement with the UK, before fresh talks begin today.


    In a potentially significant move Brussels is understood to have dropped its demand for the two sides to reach a broad agreement on all the outstanding areas of dispute before drafting a final agreement.
    In return the UK side is expected to engage in detailed discussions on post-Brexit fishing quotas and the government’s future subsidy policy, two of the biggest remaining sticking points.
    Significantly this week’s negotiating round, agreed in advance by Lord Frost and Michel Barnier, has been extended and will include more sessions on the key areas of outstanding difficulty.


    There will be 12 hours of negotiation on fishing and 14 hours on so-called level playing field provisions that include subsidy policy. In addition, and for the first time, these will include negotiations on enforcement mechanisms as part of the governance of the agreement. However, government sources urged caution in expecting an imminent breakthrough, warning that “we are still pretty far apart on the difficult things”.

    Nevertheless the decision by Brussels to consent to begin work on a legal text suggests an acknowledgement that if a deal is to be ratified by the end of the transition period in December then detailed work needs to begin on it now.

    Previously, the UK side saw Mr Barnier’s refusal to begin drafting a legal text — even in uncontroversial areas where there is already agreement — as leverage to get the government to make further concessions. That appears now to have been dropped.

    “The most important thing is that we start moving forward on negotiations over texts so we can get further forward and not get timed out,” said a senior British source. “That is a good aim.”

    An EU source said Mr Barnier was ready to begin work on a joint draft version of a free trade agreement, known as a “consolidated legal text”, this week but expects Lord Frost to provide more details of fishing quotas and the government’s future subsidy policy.

    EU leaders will be holding a Brussels summit on foreign policy questions this Friday and, said diplomatic sources, Mr Barnier might “drop in” to update them after breakfast with Lord Frost.
    The EU has also backed away from a threat to suspend trade and security talks because of government legislation breaching the Brexit withdrawal treaty.

    Maros Sefcovic, the European Commission vice-president, held talks with Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, in Brussels 48 hours before an EU demand for the government to withdraw elements of the Internal Market Bill in order for negotiations on a free trade agent to continue.

    After the meeting, Mr Sefcovic distanced himself from the edict. “I think it’s very important to say, to underline, that it could never be the EU which would cause the end of the negotiation of the future partnership between the EU and UK,” he said, when asked about the deadline. “We are going to proceed with the negotiations. We are going to use every single minute.”

    This week’s talks are seen as a critical turning point before a European Council meeting in just over two weeks where EU leaders will discuss developments. In a speech yesterday evening, Charles Michel, president of the council, said that the EU had recovered from the political shock of Brexit.

    “Today what is it? It is the UK that faces our quiet strength,” he told a Brussels think tank. “The truth is, the British face a dilemma. What model of society do they want?”
    Mr Michel said that key questions revolving about the high level of European regulation and the EU’s strong anti-subsidy free market model would “determine the level of access to our internal market” for Britain.

    Q&A

    Are we going to get a Brexit deal? Sentiments about the prospects of reaching a Brexit deal have veered wildly. The reality is a bit less excitable and a bit less predictable. The Brexit talks have been making steady, if unspectacular, progress. Lord Frost and those around him say a deal is possible but warn that time is now the biggest obstacle.

    What is happening this week? This is the final week of scheduled negotiations. For the first time the teams are expected to begin the process of consolidating a legal text in the areas on which they agree that will form the final agreement. Talks will start today.

    Is the government’s threat to tear up elements of the withdrawal agreement in the event of a no deal hindering progress? No. Oddly the round of negotiations that took place the week that the row flared up was one of the more positive in recent months. The EU has walked away from a threat to suspend talks and the government has been at pains to be more conciliatory.

    Does that mean the government’s threat worked? Not really. Privately, cooler heads in No 10 acknowledge that they handled the whole issue badly. EU leaders will discuss the threat at a summit on October 15 and will tell the government that if a trade deal is agreed it will never enter into force unless the withdrawal treaty remains intact.

    What happens after this week? Assuming this week’s talks are constructive both sides are expected to agree to intensify negotiations prior to the next European summit on October 15.

    If a deal is not done at the EU summit is it too late? No. The UK side hope to show enough progress by October 15 to give the talks more time to get a deal over the line. However if, by the end of October, the two sides are still some way apart it is hard to see how an agreement can be finalised in time.






  23. #19148
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAG View Post
    Does that mean the government’s threat worked? Not really. Privately, cooler heads in No 10 acknowledge that they handled the whole issue badly. EU leaders will discuss the threat at a summit on October 15 and will tell the government that if a trade deal is agreed it will never enter into force unless the withdrawal treaty remains intact.
    This.
    Saving time by putting into print what they agree about but that covers only the easy part of the negotiations.
    They will, at some time in a very near future , have to grab the bull by the horns.

  24. #19149
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    The worst British government in living memory is simply hoping the EU will concede ground at the last moment but if this is not likely then The Clown will sign up to what's on offer and then renege on a later date citing some technicality permitting "re-interpretation" of the terms. He is taking a leaf out of the Trumpian playbook and simply breaking agreements whenever it suits calculating that any ensuing legal challenges will always be behind the curve of Cummings cynical machinations.

    This perfidy is typical English hypocrisy but BoJo has taken it down a peg or two in the sophistication stakes and is little more than the lying sack of shit he has always been.

  25. #19150
    Thailand Expat Pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    The worst British government in living memory
    That is open to question.

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