Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

let's see if Boris use this as an excuse to extend

A thousand Baht says he won't. Wanna match that Butters?

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

We can buy cheap and crap Australian/US wines, and we have great cheeses of our own, thank you.

quite like the old mature cheddar, you can even find them at TESCO for 280 THB!!!

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Macron forced through the pension laws without a house vote yet??? That's going down well with the unions...
(&, your farmers are gonna have to give up huge amounts of subsidies; it's gonna start rockin and rollin around France...)

yeah, what a fool, he is going to pay for it, and the funny thing is LePen told she will repeal the pension laws once she is president,

she is going to win this time, thanks to Macron

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

A thousand Baht says he won't. Wanna match that Butters?

I only take my bets on that Betfair website

it avoids the possibility of defaults on petty excuses

I think Corona virus is going to be a valid excuse for Boris to extend, above all if there is a large recession following

Recession is threatening many major economies, and any one that loses it could topple the others.

If only it were possible for countries to consolidate their strengths together, to minimise the dangers posed by one being weakened.

^ .

Originally Posted by taxexile

thats obviously your recurring wet dream, but i doubt any of the brits with residences and work there will be fucked. the dagos will put the economy first and workarounds will be found. just as they will be in the uk.

long game and all that.

I can understand Battyboob being obtuse, he's a neurotic idiot, but you really ought to know better.

I am not referring to those 350,000 odd who already have carta de residence etc, I am referring to the hundreds of thousands who are in Spain without formal status whose rope will run out by mid 2021 and the hundreds of thousands of Brits to come after the expiry of the transitional phase who will be treated as third country nationals in reciprocity of the UK treating the EU citizens as subject to control under the IA 1971 from 1.1.21 onwards.

There is no fucking long game about it you twat, the government's ending of free movement is totemic now, it is the central plank of Brexit, it is the be and end all.

Future settlement in the EU by Brits will be by visa under member states' respective immigration rules most of which are rigorous, demanding and challenging for those without significant liquid assets or vocational qualifications.

90 days in any 180 day period is the maximum visit period. It won't change. Unless of course the Tory Orcs reintroduce free movement.

That is as likely as BoJo staying faithful to his new squaw.

your posts increasingly resemble the kind of inflexible carved in stone "computer says no" govspeak so beloved of britains legions of pompous jobsworths, puffed up civil servants and self righteous apparatchiks.

nothing, i repeat nothing has been formally decided yet.

..... and stop calling me a twat you dribbling buffoon.

You pillock, what on earth do you mean "nothing has been formally decided yet"???

The HO/Government/Tory Orc central has already drafted the new rules, the EU citizens are to be brought under immigration control as defined by the Immigration Act 1971 and will be subject to its provisions from 1.1.21.

Those who enjoy legacy rights under the WA will continue to exercise them but only after registration and on application as they pertain. All new EU citizen arrivals after 1.1.21 will be subject to control meaning 6 months visit in any 12 month period and seeking entry in any other capacity will be by prior clearance by the grant of a visa for the purpose stated subject to the prevailing rules.

Hey, if the cap fits, wear it Tax ( the Twat) eh?

Har, har.

That is as likely as BoJo staying faithful to his new squaw.

I think your views on these reciprocal living arrangements are a tad pessimistic SA. I don't think London wants to lose it's army of European waitstaff in one fell swoop, and Spain & Portugal will certainly not want to lose their Brit contingent- or at least not their spending. Even if most of them moan like you.

^ excellent. All those Brits with residences in the EU will of course be offered their version of indefinite leave to remain, so all good.

Christ, you folk are truly stupid.

Those who benefit from legacy rights under the WA now ratified by both the EU and the UK will be protected but subject to registration and qualification. In Spain this numbers around 350,000. But the problem arises out of the 750,000 who variously live and work but not as registered residents. They are in some difficulty but there it is. However, that is not the point I was making, I was referring to all new arrivals from 1.1.21. who are of course now excluded from free movement and must now fall to be considered under respective immigration laws of the host states.

^ forgive me, so the EU cohort are currently signing up to remain in the UK if they so wish. the Brits in the EU are doing the same?

Originally Posted by cyrille

If only it were possible for countries to consolidate their strengths together, to minimise the dangers posed by one being weakened.

You mean like a union of independent states?

Nah . . . it wouldn't last five years and everyone will be poor . . .

What's your understanding of the difference between the future rights of EU citizens in the UK and of UK citizens in the EU?

You raised this weeks ago without really explaining what you think the difference is, and I thought someone had explained whatever it is you don't understand.

Originally Posted by NamPikToot

the UK has freely offered EU citizens who have been living in the UK the right to remain in the UK

This claim is misleading, for starters.

BBC:

For EU citizens already in the UK
After 31 January, the UK [entered into] a transition period with the EU to allow both sides to negotiate their future relationship. This is due to last until 31 December 2020 and during this time the UK will still be bound by EU laws.


That means freedom of movement (which allows EU citizens the right to live and work in the UK and gives UK citizens the right to do the same in EU countries) will continue during this phase.


It means that an EU passport or identity card will still be valid proof to rent and work.


The government plans to pass a law in the next year which will end EU citizens' freedom of movement from the end of the transition. That means they will need a visa to work or live in the UK long term.

For UK citizens in the EU
For UK citizens who are currently living in one of the EU's other 27 countries, nothing will change during the transition - that is, until the end of 2020.


But they may need to apply for a residence status to confirm that they were already resident in the EU country before 31 December 2020. They will, like EU citizens in the UK, have until at least 30 June 2021 to do so.

So where is this supposed disparity between the treatment of UK citizens in the EU and the treatment of EU citizens in the UK?

^ so you can't see a difference in treatment? between what the UK has enshrined in law and is offering EU citizens in the UK vs some vague wording for UK citizens in the EU. Can you point me at the EU legislation that offers comparable rights now.

The UK has an application process NOW and its been legislated for, what i am asking a simple TFLer is show me the Law that the EU has that UK citizens residing in the EU NOW can use to do likewise.

Originally Posted by NamPikToot

No its not, you not being able to pull the EU legal document that offers the same rights now that the UK is offering EU citizens proves it.

Where's your evidence of anything whatsoever?

You claim that the UK has 'enshrined in law' the rights of EU citizens in the UK after separation, but you've backed that up with precisely nothing.

I've quoted from the BBC that 'there are plans' to do so, and offered my belief that this is what is being negotiated. I've further stated that this will in my opinion be done on a reciprocal basis.

You are, in conclusion, full of piss and wind.

Originally Posted by NamPikToot

The UK has an application process NOW and its been legislated for, what i am asking a simple TFLer is show me the Law that the EU has that UK citizens residing in the EU NOW can use to do likewise.

What's the matter with you, have you got one of Nigels chain mails again?

The right for EU citizens to stay in UK and UK citizens to stay in EU is covered by the withdrawal agreement signed by BoJo for UK and signed by the 27 member states of EU and took legal effect when UK left EU on Jan 31 2020.

It is a reciprocal agreement but with a not so minor difference:
UK require that EU citizens, when applying for right to stay, must have lived in UK min 6 month per year for the last 5 years before December 31, 2020.
EU require that UK citizens, when applying for right to stay, must have started their 5 year period before December 31, 2020

The actual modalities of the WA where it concerned the legacy rights of EU and British citizens were thrashed out and published before Xmas 2018 as I recall. It of course only became law when it was finally ratified after BoJo was elected. What these idiots are arguing about are the measures taken by the HO to re-badge EU citizens in the UK who already had lawful residence ( under EU regulations of Directive 2004/38/EC transposed into UK legislation in 2006 and amended in 2016, measures which were administrative and fuck all to do with "law".

The difficulty facing many Brits in Spain and to a certain extent France too is that they never applied for a residence card confirming they had exercised their EU treaty rights but had merely established a de facto residence facilitated by freedom of movement through successive stays with periodic trips back to Blighty. This of course was to avoid tax liability but Brxit has forced them to bite the bullet and now thy have to jump one way or t'other. Some very complex decisions are to be made and of course health insurance is becoming a more significant issue.

Brexiteers are oblivious to the nitty-gritty of anything very much but are mostly informed by cheap Kipper rhetoric and propaganda for their comprehension of the issues which explains why they mostly come across as quite stupid.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

The actual modalities of the WA where it concerned the legacy rights of EU and British citizens were thrashed out and published before Xmas 2018 as I recall. It of course only became law when it was finally ratified after BoJo was elected. What these idiots are arguing about are the measures taken by the HO to re-badge EU citizens in the UK who already had lawful residence ( under EU regulations of Directive 2004/38/EC transposed into UK legislation in 2006 and amended in 2016, measures which were administrative and fuck all to do with "law".

The difficulty facing many Brits in Spain and to a certain extent France too is that they never applied for a residence card confirming they had exercised their EU treaty rights but had merely established a de facto residence facilitated by freedom of movement through successive stays with periodic trips back to Blighty. This of course was to avoid tax liability but Brxit has forced them to bite the bullet and now thy have to jump one way or t'other. Some very complex decisions are to be made and of course health insurance is becoming a more significant issue.

Brexiteers are oblivious to the nitty-gritty of anything very much but are mostly informed by cheap Kipper rhetoric and propaganda for their comprehension of the issues which explains why they mostly come across as quite stupid.

bravo, right on, as usual

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Brexiteers are oblivious to the nitty-gritty of anything very much

It's like having your drains full of pesky vermin, you instruct a plummer to clear them, you just expect him to turn a high pressure hose on and flush them back where they come from. Nitty gritty is his business not the clients.Same here.

Originally Posted by Eddie Booth

It's like having your drains full of pesky vermin,

I'm not a great fan of Poms but I wouldn't call them vermin, be nice