Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

^ the EU will offer extensions forever. Their position always was and always will be to frustrate the referendum result until the people give up and Britain remain.

well, REF1 was based on lies and was not legally binding, so the EU is not validating that vote and why should they? it's petty British internal politics.

The real tragedy was having a PM like Theresa May, not someone with vision and dignity who would have called off INVOKE, and whip their MPs to get inline with REMAIN.

The Tories fucked up the whole thing since Day 1,

today is going to be fun

Brexit: Boris Johnson faces showdown in Parliament
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49560557

Boris Johnson faces a showdown in Parliament later after No 10 officials warned he would call for a snap general election on 14 October if MPs succeed in seizing control of Commons business.

Rebel Tories and Labour MPs are planning a bill to stop the UK leaving the EU on 31 October without a deal.

Mr Johnson said he did not want an election, but progress with the EU would be "impossible" if the MPs win.

Jeremy Corbyn said the Labour Party was ready for a general election.

But shadow Northern Ireland secretary Tony Lloyd later said Labour would vote against any government plans to hold a general election before the UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October.

He said Labour "will not have Boris Johnson dictate the terms of an election that crashes this country out with no deal".

Under the Fixed Terms Parliament Act, Mr Johnson would require the backing of two-thirds of the UK's 650 MPs to trigger a poll in the autumn.

A number of MPs have come together across party political lines in a fresh bid to stop a no-deal Brexit, after Mr Johnson vowed to leave the EU with or without a deal on 31 October.

When parliament returns on Tuesday after recess, they are expected to put forward legislation under Standing Order 24 - a rule that allows urgent debates to be heard.

The bill would force the prime minister to ask for Brexit to be delayed until 31 January, unless MPs had approved a new deal, or voted in favour of a no-deal exit, by 19 October.

In a televised announcement on Monday, Mr Johnson insisted he could achieve changes to the UK's current Brexit deal at an EU summit on 17 October.

But he said that if MPs voted to block the option of a no-deal Brexit they would "plainly chop the legs out from under the UK position" when he is negotiating.

again extension to Jan 31 is not the solution, Boris is going to face a mindfuck of its own if that happens

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

An election with clear Brexit plans would work. &, the Tories would win it.

I doubt it, they're only hanging on by their coattails now.

Essentially the threat of a General Election is designed to make those remainers who lied at the last election fear for the loss of their seat.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

An election with clear Brexit plans would work. &, the Tories would win it. &, more importantly, the Brexit MPs would increase, so parliament would actually be inline with the majority of Britain. Only Scotland (not by that much) and London (massively) want to remain.

an election with clear Brexit plans? how do you plan this to happen with the Tories? you are drawing castles in the sky here, the Tories are massively divided over Brexit, so it's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

The backstop is an issue.

not really, it's an invented issue to create internal political fighting to sabotage Doris deal (to promote REMAIN or HARD BREXIT, win-win for both camps).

It's not a bad idea and it's only for a transition phase, and yet they are jumping on it like vapid dogs on a bone.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Boris kicks out the remoaners - puts in Brexit candidates and the Tories manifesto is Leave Now.

that would basically be competiting with the loons at the Brexit Party, and losing votes to Labour, so it's not going to happen, and that's the problem

Brexit loons vote would be 35% top across the UK, so that would mean what? 15 MPs in parliament, that would be political suicide for the Tories

that's why Boris have to play on both sides, and can't say he wants to avoid any DEAL and leave now. He will also need the extension as political capital to buy time for a GE and create more confusion by saying he is still looking for a DEAL, hence why he asked for an extension.

regardless, it's clear now that Oct 31 Brexit is not going to happen, as I predicted

The blue areas also show livable areas of UK- that big blue expanse to the north is looking very inviting.

not if it ever has to pay its way Mandy

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

that would basically be competiting with the loons at the Brexit Party, and losing votes to Labour, so it's not going to happen, and that's the problem

Brexit loons vote would be 35% top across the UK, so that would mean what? 15 MPs in parliament, that would be political suicide for the Tories

that's why Boris have to play on both sides, and can't say he wants to avoid any DEAL and leave now. He will also need the extension as political capital to buy time for a GE and create more confusion by saying he is still looking for a DEAL, hence why he asked for an extension.

regardless, it's clear now that Oct 31 Brexit is not going to happen, as I predicted

It's a fact that you, like so many europeans, do not understand the UK pr how our political system works. Like your certainty over brexit on 21 October, you have more faces than mount rushmore.

Stop aking shit up just to suit your ever wavering narrative. It just makes look even more foolish.

It's probably too late now to vet suitable candidates for tory MPs who have gone against the wishes of their constituency. Boris has already warned them, toe te line or you are de-selected. Scare mongering, but thye don't want to lose their seat on the gravy train. For most, personal interests will come before politics or country.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

today is going to be fun

Yep. This is getting better than the rumble in the jungle.
Is the first round today? What time about?

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

an election with clear Brexit plans? how do you plan this to happen with the Tories? you are drawing castles in the sky here, the Tories are massively divided over Brexit, so it's not going to happen.

Don't underestimate Bojo's secret weapon in a GE, Corbyn's unacceptability.

This is why I see no value in an October election; wait till November, by which time he will either deliver or die.

This is a quite interesting sum up:

I'm not sure that this impasse can be solved in 3 months, 12 months would be more like it. Brexit was a bad idea, but if it is going to happen it should be a cross party negotiation as the Tories are clearly incapable. Don't really see the issue, plenty of Labor areas voted leave. It's about the future of the UK, not preserving the main political parties.

Originally Posted by Norton

Yep. This is getting better than the rumble in the jungle.
Is the first round today? What time about?

It's probably gonna get very very messy...

Originally Posted by Mandaloopy

I'm not sure that this impasse can be solved in 3 months, 12 months would be more like it. Brexit was a bad idea, but if it is going to happen it should be a cross party negotiation as the Tories are clearly incapable. Don't really see the issue, plenty of Labor areas voted leave. It's about the future of the UK, not preserving the main political parties.

The people who want an extension want to stop Brexit not find a deal.

The Liberal leader has stated she is after remain and would not accept the result of a second referendum unless it is remain.

Starmer has stated, and he effectively leads Labour (and has done for a long time), that he will only allow Remain or May's Deal as "people's referendum" choices; he is solely for remain.

So the problem is: do you allow remainers to turn over the vote of the majority? &, also allow them to not have a second referendum with fair questions (Leave with No Deal or Revoke is an easy choice that people understand fully now - but, the remainers won't allow this question because they fear the result...). Especially so when the talks of finding a better deal and having another extension are just lies from people who are fully committed to Revoke. The only reason for an extension is to politically maneuver a revoke - the Libs and key Labour leaders have made that clear repeatedly, as have Tories such as Ken Clarke.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

It's probably gonna get very very messy...

A promo for the up coming donnybrook.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Boris kicks out the remoaners - puts in Brexit candidates

Everything is very easy if you make sure that you are only surrounded by yes-sayers..

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

The issue is and has been for 3 years that the MPs do not support their constituency vote

You obviously need a crash course in representative democracy.
Is it only in the Brexit question that they need to be 100% in tune with their voters or in all other questions also? Do you understand what the outcome of that would mean?

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Basically Nev, it's parliament v the people (well, the majority, quite a small majority, of the people).



That first sentence is very dishonest, imho.

Nobody knows "what's best for the country" - but, what we do know is that many parliamentarians do not respect the wishes of the majority of the people; and, they are not willing to put it to the vote either in a GE... It has already been put to a referendum, and the people made their choice.

If you are following the logic/arguments of people like Tony Blair and Alistair Cambell then surely you must realize that you're on the wrong side of history and decency and democracy and the list goes on..

I have told you before, there are many things that are best for the country that are not immediately beneficial to individuals. Taxes, in their various forms, are the prime example.

The problem is not with leaving the EU but with leaving in an orderly and agreed fashion. The idea is to continue to have a close relationship with the EU, especially where trade and security are concerned.

The idea that a no-deal will scare the EU into making concessions on the agreement is foolhardy. Boris has no way forward with the Irish border. He has no plan. He has no solution. The UK should remain until an agreed solution is found.

It's just a storm in a teacup anyway, blaming the EU for the UK government's weakness and fear of Farage and the far right.

^ & ^^

A referendum is direct democracy or, if as we are seeing now, the result is ignored we get political chaos.

The EU will not and have never agreed to an orderly fashion... There has been no agreement other than we must agree to everything they say before a deal can be discussed - don't be fooled into the dishonest rhetoric; the EU plans to keep Britain in the EU or punish them as much as possible if they leave - this is there political agenda. But, an economic or business agenda is different...

That's why we have two messes:

1) The UK parliament will not accept the result of a referendum.

2) The EU idealists are dominant over the EU dealmakers and business folk. Plus, as long as the Germans think the UK remoaners will keep putting barriers in the UK's efforts to get a deal then they can keep playing hardball. The EU are in a strange position, they can just continue to do nothing and hope Brexit doesn't happen, but in reality this is hurting the EU and will increasingly do so whatever the outcome.

That is why no headroom can ever be made from the current position. It is either leave now or revoke. The pretence of democracy or delays or extensions or anything else, is just that - pretence and political posturing.

Fundamentally, as per several on this thread, you do not believe in upholding the result of the referendum... I do. (&, I would have done so whatever the result because that's democracy in practice, not just when it suits me like you remoaners... ).

Originally Posted by Troy

I have told you before, there are many things that are best for the country that are not immediately beneficial to individuals. Taxes, in their various forms, are the prime example.

The problem is not with leaving the EU but with leaving in an orderly and agreed fashion. The idea is to continue to have a close relationship with the EU, especially where trade and security are concerned.

The idea that a no-deal will scare the EU into making concessions on the agreement is foolhardy. Boris has no way forward with the Irish border. He has no plan. He has no solution. The UK should remain until an agreed solution is found.

It's just a storm in a teacup anyway, blaming the EU for the UK government's weakness and fear of Farage and the far right.

It doesn't matter if we scare the EU into renegotiating or not. No deal simply means those individual countries who wish to trade with the UK can negotiate immediately after 31 October.
The alternative, is to spend years inside paying for EU membership, with none of the benefits.

Just reading that if Boris agrees to no deal the brexit party will not contest any conservative leave seats. The whole show is suddenly being dominated by people who put country first.

The bill Hilary Benn wants.

^ basically, they are working on behalf of the EU - they even word it that way... That's atrocious, you'd have to be anti-Uk to support it.

Originally Posted by Switch

It doesn't matter if we scare the EU into renegotiating or not. No deal simply means those individual countries who wish to trade with the UK can negotiate immediately after 31 October.
The alternative, is to spend years inside paying for EU membership, with none of the benefits.

Just reading that if Boris agrees to no deal the brexit party will not contest any conservative leave seats. The whole show is suddenly being dominated by people who put country first.

The remoaners clearly put themselves and their minority first while using any excuse to cry fowl; there is no low they won't stoop to. It makes it very hard to have a conversation because you're dealing with semi-sociopaths who just want their own way regardless of anything else...