Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

let the shitshow begins

if we are lucky, Theresa May will still be PM on Oct 31

Michael Gove: Cocaine 'mistake' a 'deep regret'
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48564722

What bugs me is that you would fail the security clearance to clean the bogs in parliament for admitting to have taken class a drugs and yet MPs aren't sacked on the spot for the same indiscretion.

Christ on a bike, Tax, if that is what the world thinks when it might happen then it doesn't take a fucking Einstein to realise the real shitstorm is coming after the imminent hard Brexit.

had the government had any balls it would have declared article 50 within a week of the referendum result and put the ball in brussels court.
we might be in a very different position now.

sadly the result took the smug government by surprise, cameron turned his back and handed the poisoned chalice to the hapless teresa may, the rest is history as they say.

what will happen in october is anyones guess, the country is divided in much the same was as thailand was in the days of red and yellow and both sides are so deeply entrenched and there really is no compromise available that can smooth over the divisions.

i personally am not afraid of a hard brexit, i detest the euro project, along with its self serving politicians, the canny krauts have got the whole fucking thing sown up to their advantage and they are hoovering up every fucking euro on the continent, but i believe it will most certainly end in failure, slow impoverishment and social unrest for those countries stuck in it.

i am more afraid of the divisions in uk society this impasse will bring on, and that those divisions will be exploited by the repulsive hard left, those masters of the destructive divisive intolerant identity politics that pit one group of people against another resulting in the kind of stubborn hatred that is rapidly spreading through our society.

whatever is done in october, hard brexit or a fear induced snow job, half the country will still be dissatisfied.

sadly i think the only way is for a trusted politician, with the ability to convince through common sense, indisputable fact, sound logic and powerful rhetoric, that a second referendum is the only way, and to hope that the winners of that referendum do so by a majority large enough to shut the losing side up for good.

did i say "trusted politician" ? finding one of those, on either side of the dispatch box, is going to harder than finding a way out of this awful mess.

Originally Posted by jabir

Been away a bit, does anyone still believe our glorious leaders are going to give us the clean Brexit both we and they voted for?

Sure they should, but that's not the question.

Today we don't even know who that glorious leader is and whether it will be Johnson, Raab or any of the other candidates who becomes prime minister, they are in the same fox trap as Theresa May - they have no majority in parliament behind them.

Theresa May is in my opinion getting much undeserved blame for the Brexit charade up til now, she should have made sure that she had a united party behind her and an agreement with Labour before starting the process, that is her main error and for that she should take the blame.
Half of the failure is hers and the other half falls on the many in the Tory party who exercised snipery against her.

History books are likely to put all the blame on her so she will probably go to history as one of Britain's most failed prime minister of all time but the risk is imminent that her successor becomes both more short-lived and gets an even worse reminder. It is a poisonous job so I hope Boris will get it.

We'll have to wait until August to get a continuation of this saga but the clock is running.
As Donald Tusk said when he gave the extension "please do not waste this time"...

Originally Posted by taxexile

sadly i think the only way is for a trusted politician, with the ability to convince through common sense, indisputable fact, sound logic and powerful rhetoric, that a second referendum is the only way, and to hope that the winners of that referendum do so by a majority large enough to shut the losing side up for good.

REF2 or revoke, I can't see anything else on the menu. Boris is promising a no-deal Brexit but he will not be able to deliver that.

anyone who believe that hard Brexit is going to happen, need to stop taking class A drugs

No-deal Brexit is still the default and Parliament has failed miserably to come to a majority decision on any alternative. They have been playing with fire and will have their arses burnt.

Clearly the Maybot agreement is bad for the UK. It is a dismal failure to achieve what was promised, and promised with ease. It is not a compromise supported by remainers or leavers. It is a failure for all and a failure on many levels.

The only solution, if brexit is the desire, is to leave with no deal at all. Take a step back and see what happens. There will be some who fail by that decision but it is too late to try and negotiate something else and revoke will be seen as the ultimate fail.

Any delay will make things worse. It has to be leave and work out the details once that has happened. Boris has to lead the UK and he has to take the rise or fall on his shoulders. No-one else will do.

Boris, get the UK out of this mess now!

Originally Posted by Troy

No-deal Brexit is still the default

link? on what planet?

Originally Posted by Troy

Boris, get the UK out of this mess now!

he will, he is going to go for REVOKE, no other choice, unlike Churchill (who almost did) he will capitulate to the Germans

Tax, no one with a functioning brain gives a flying fuck about the schism between Brexshitters and we normal folk. Everyone who voted in favour of Brexit were variously, stupid morons, poor morons, ignorant morons, xenophobic, racist bigoted morons, deranged morons, decrepit morons, greedy tax evading shyster morons, dull-witted and lumpen, obdurate morons, or simply Welsh, whereas we Remainers are to a man, bright, educated, intelligent, vivacious, talented, fun, warm-hearted, convivial, dynamic, humorous, witty, knowledgeable, charming, broad-minded and decent folk.
The schism has in truth always been there, its just that Brexit has illuminated a different label for the opposing polarity. Brexit is in fact a bit of a godsend in that in terms of British class stratification it has drawn all the shitty elements of society together under one neat banner. This is in fact quite convenient for we decent folk who now can avoid wasted time in redundant intercourse with idiots simply by eliciting how a person voted in the referendum.

Vive le difference as Butters would declare, and let's all enjoy the delightful prospect of hurling abuse at Brexiteers when the country turns to ratshit and the dross that voted for it have their noses rubbed into the huge, foetid turd they have dropped into the hands of the worst Tory government in British political history.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

link? on what planet?

Why do you need a link, it's the law as it stands and can only by overturned by an act of parliament or revoking A50 or of course another extension.

^^.More Arse dribble

SeekingAss must bore the pants of everyone in which ever soi 6 bar is his flavour of the week as I can imagine he does nothing but go about the exchange rate with constant nauseating whining.

Brexshitters and we normal folk.

you illustrate my point perfectly.

when faced with a sensible, well put together rational argument, you assume your default stance of a bigoted abuse hurling troll.

i imagine if dianne abbot and lady nugee sired a love child using a turkey baster loaded with jeremy corbyns finest, the result would be you.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Why do you need a link, it's the law as it stands and can only by overturned by an act of parliament or revoking A50 or of course another extension.

my point exactly since the law says there can not be a Brexit without a deal

unless you have a link that says otherwise, but of course you don't

Boris is going to go in a battle for REVOKE after everyone realize that Brexit is not feasible

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

my point exactly since the law says there can not be a Brexit without a deal

unless you have a link that says otherwise, but of course you don't

Boris is going to go in a battle for REVOKE after everyone realize that Brexit is not feasible

I know English isn't your first language so I'll be patient with you, an act of parliament was passed putting into law that we will leave the EU on March 29 2019, if no deal is agreed then no deal is the default position. This has since been extended to October 31 2019 with the default position we leave with no deal if a deal is not agreed by that date. That is the law as it currently stands, and only way it changes is if A50 is revoked or another extension is agreed.

Froggies have never understood Law, retreat yep, not the Law.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

I know English isn't your first language so I'll be patient with you, an act of parliament was passed putting into law that we will leave the EU on March 29 2019, if no deal is agreed then no deal is the default position. This has since been extended to October 31 2019 with the default position we leave with no deal if a deal is not agreed by that date. That is the law as it currently stands, and only way it changes is if A50 is revoked or another extension is agreed.

nothing to do with English as your first language, as you seem to suffer yourself from reading comprehension and critical thinking skills

it was the default on March 29 but the UK parliament has superceded that law with the a new vote that the UK will not leave without a deal. Are you saying that majority vote was invalid? because it's not, and that last vote supercede whatever was voted before.

I understand you don't understand those complex legal and parliamentary rules, but that's what they are. In your chav world you might think it's not important and you can project whatever fantasy world you might have about your own country, but reality is reality and doesn't care what you and you other Brexit chav friends think

The law is NOW Brexit with a DEAL, not BREXIT without a DEAL

if Brexit with a DEAL is not possible, then it's REVOKE with a parliamentary vote, or unlimited extension until the end of time, which is basically the same as REMAIN

Listen, if hard Brexit was feasible, it would have happened already

now the real question is what's next? DEAL or REVOKE

Unless the Queen comes in and say it will be the DEAL, I am pretty sure everyone in the UK parliament is now preparing for a vote on REVOKE

Boris is probably negotiating his stance on this issue as we speak for the 1922 committee

I can't believe i am saying this, Foolbar came back....

Originally Posted by lom

REF2 or revoke, I can't see anything else on the menu. Boris is promising a no-deal Brexit but he will not be able to deliver that.

Zero chance of revoke + stay, cannot happen as the crisis that leads to would make May's handling seem a phenomenal success; otoh extend+revoke+Ref2 is looking less unlikely by the week.

If still here in 10 years I might be boasting that I got 39.80 to the £.

my bold prediction about this whole sordid affair is that the EU and the UK will agree on an unlimited extension

(I doubt that the one who wrote this could apply for PM

I desperately want to see an end to Israel’s abuse of Palestinians – Ken Livingstone

Ken Livingstone is an English politician, he served as the Mayor of London between 2000 and 2008. He is also a former MP and a former member of the Labour Party.

Just two months since Netanyahu’s Likud party was re-elected with its biggest-ever number of seats, Israel has been thrown into chaos because he has failed to put together a coalition.

Netanyahu has now called for another election to be held on September 17. There is still no guarantee that it can create a parliament capable of forming a government. Netanyahu’s party had won its best-ever result with 35 seats in a parliament of 120 seats. The new opposition coalition Blue and White got 35 seats but once the results of all the other parties came through the right-wing had a majority of 65 over the opposition’s 55. No one doubted that Netanyahu was going to govern for another full term, making him the longest-serving prime minister in Israeli history.

His failure to put together a coalition was due to ultra-orthodox parties and the secular ultra nationalist party refusing to agree to continue the rule that ultra-orthodox Jews should not have to serve in the Israeli army. The former defence minister Avigdor Lieberman’s secular ultra nationalist party has been angry for some time that the ultra-orthodox were able to avoid the three years of armed service that is imposed on every other young Israeli.

Netanyahu denounced Lieberman, saying: “He has dragged the country to unnecessary elections due to his own political ego. The public chose me to lead the state of Israel. We will run a sharp and clear election campaign and we will win.”

After 40 days of negotiations Netanyahu faced a crisis, if he couldn’t form the coalition within 42 days of the election Israel’s president Reuven Rivlin could have asked the opposition leader to try and form a government. That would have given the leader of the Blue and White party, the former army chief Benny Gantz, the chance to form a coalition. This would have prevented Netanyahu’s plan to pass legislation exempting prime ministers from being charged with criminal activities. The 69-year-old Netanyahu faces potential indictments for fraud, bribery and breach of trust in three cases. His supporters are still planning to pass legislation which will grant him immunity whilst he remains prime minister.

One immediate impact of the new election is that it has undermined any chance of progress by Donald Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, to negotiate a peace settlement. After meeting with Kushner, Netanyahu said: “Even though we had a little event last night that’s not going to stop us. We’re going to continue working together. We had a great productive meeting which reaffirms the alliance between the United States and Israel has never been stronger.”

The sad reality is that Kushner’s peace plan has not involved Palestinian refugees. Trump’s government has put on hold the details of its peace plan until after the new Israeli election. The Palestinian leadership said that Trump’s pro-Israel bias is a clear indication that there will be little for the Palestinians to enjoy in this deal. Although the Palestinians are to be excluded from the negotiations Kushner was planning to get several rich Arab Gulf states to invest billions to improve the quality of life of Palestinian refugees living in the Gaza strip or on the West Bank. These would have been the first round of US-backed negotiations since 2014.

Since the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 the ultra-orthodox Jews have been exempt from military service. The ultra-orthodox are around ten percent of Israel’s 8.5 million people, but they are growing fast as they tend to have larger families. Many will find this bizarre, but some of the ultra-orthodox Jewish sects refuse to recognise the state of Israel because they believe it can only be founded after the return of the Messiah. Many therefore boycott elections.

A key factor in Netanyahu securing his biggest-ever number of seats in the election was his hardline campaign in which he talked about annexing parts of the occupied West Bank and also threatened to introduce new laws that would curb the Supreme Court of Israel which has often made judgements that have offended Netanyahu.

It’s not just Trump who is a passionate supporter of the state of Israel. The recently re-elected prime minister of India, Narendra Modi, tweeted to his “dear friend” Netanyahu that he wanted to “take our bilateral partnership to new heights.”

The strongest criticism of Netanyahu’s government can always be found amongst the Palestinians. Senior Palestinian official Hanan Ashrawi said that Israelis had “overwhelmingly voted for candidates that are unequivocally committed to entrenching the status quo of oppression, occupation, annexation and dispossession in Palestine.” She continued that they had chosen “an overwhelmingly right-wing, xenophobic and anti-Palestinian parliament to represent them. Israelis chose to entrench and expand apartheid.”

Although the Israeli Labor Party governed Israel for its first three decades, they managed to win only six seats at this election. The Meretz party, the only Jewish party promising to end the occupation of the West Bank, which Israel seized in 1967, won only four seats. Four Arab parties went from 13 seats down to just ten because many Palestinians boycotted the election.

If Netanyahu can win the September election, he would use his fifth term to entrench his occupation of the West Bank, where over two and a half million Palestinians live, and would continue his blockade of Gaza, where two million more Palestinians live in what is called the largest open prison in the world.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was recently questioned in the US Senate about Trump’s policy in the Middle East. He refused to denounce Israel’s continuing occupation of the West Bank or to support the long-standing US commitment to two states, one for the Israelis, one for the Palestinians, saying: “The old set of ideas are not worth retreading. They have not succeeded. I would argue that millions of man hours have been spent trying to build a two-state solution and it hasn’t worked to date.” A clear sign of the Trump administration’s intentions was revealed on March 21 when he endorsed Israel’s illegal annexation of the Golan Heights, which Israel seized from Syria in 1967.

During the election, Netanyahu’s main rival, Benny Gantz, the former army general, talked about flattening whole neighbourhoods with bombing raids. The 59-year-old former head of the Israeli armed forces only appeared on the political stage a few months ago after the decline of the traditional left-wing Israeli parties. Gantz maintained he was pro-peace, but his policies were little difference from those of Netanyahu. He declined to talk about Palestinian statehood and said that Israel should continue to control part of the West Bank.

Over the 71 years since the creation of the state of Israel its parliament has passed over 65 laws that undermine the rights of Palestinian citizens. Their racist impact on the people they target has clearly been a factor in spurring terrorism. It may sound bizarre but somebody living in Israel who is a Palestinian is not allowed to buy a home in most of the country and can be banned from living in a town unless they are determined to be “socially or culturally suitable”. In the state schools there is no teaching about Palestinian history and if a Palestinian in Israel wants to marry a Palestinian in the occupied territories they do not qualify for citizenship or residency.

Not surprisingly, these policies were supported by Netanyahu when he said: “Israel is not a state of all its citizens. According to the basic nationality law we passed, Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people and only it.” This prompted President Rivlin to say: “There are no first-class citizens, and there are no second-class voters. We are all equal in the voting booth. We are all represented at the Knesset [parliament].”

I desperately want to see Israel’s appalling abuse of the Palestinians brought to an end with the emergence of the two-state solution that was promised by the United Nations in 1948.

During the war of independence Israel drove over 700,000 Palestinians out of their homes and into the West Bank, which was then controlled by Jordan, and Gaza, which was controlled by Egypt. In the years that followed Israel’s foreign secretary often raised the issue of the refugees with prime minister Ben Gurion. The foreign secretary believed some refugees should be allowed to return to their homes and the quality of life for the others should be improved in Gaza and the West Bank. But this was dismissed by Ben Gurion who is believed to have said “the old will die and the young will forget.” But he was wrong. The old may have died but their children and grandchildren continue to live in the appalling conditions of Gaza or under the oppressive regime in the now Israeli-occupied West Bank.

Former Prime Minister Rabin was assassinated in 1995 after he took the first step in negotiating with Palestinians. Since then, there has been no progress and Israel’s recent election saw no serious debate about a way forward. I only hope that this issue can be raised in September’s election and we see the emergence of leaders capable of bringing this horror to an end.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/461128-neta...ion-palestine/

Originally Posted by lom

she should have made sure that she had a united party behind her and an agreement with Labour before starting the process, that is her main error and for that she should take the blame.

She took a decision and followed her choice. She is responsible for all she has now washed her hands of. Judas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-48519746

Read that in full my Algerian friend and that's from the Brexit Bashing Corp.

Originally Posted by Troy

No-deal Brexit is still the default and Parliament has failed miserably to come to a majority decision on any alternative. They have been playing with fire and will have their arses burnt.

Have been out of the loop these past days, though their ratings are so low that many of our glorious leaders no longer care, if they even know, that the country has lost confidence in their ability to navigate toward what both they and we voted for. Otoh each is comforted knowing that every other is just as timid and incompetent, that voters neither trust nor believe them, so that they can focus on saying and doing whatever it takes for the prime objective of keeping their seat.

Clearly the Maybot agreement is bad for the UK. It is a dismal failure to achieve what was promised, and promised with ease. It is not a compromise supported by remainers or leavers. It is a failure for all and a failure on many levels.

Merely losing her position is the small price she paid for presenting Frau's surrender Treaty to Parliament, three times; such level of betrayal deserves to be rewarded with a vip place at the EU or UN trough. Back in Blighty perhaps a public enquiry to investigate every MP that voted for it.

The only solution, if brexit is the desire, is to leave with no deal at all. Take a step back and see what happens. There will be some who fail by that decision but it is too late to try and negotiate something else and revoke will be seen as the ultimate fail.

Any delay will make things worse. It has to be leave and work out the details once that has happened. Boris has to lead the UK and he has to take the rise or fall on his shoulders. No-one else will do.

Boris, get the UK out of this mess now!

Get this, Parliament actually voted against what it voted for.

Forget Boris, he's good at making the right noises, but even believing he's prepared to crash out he couldn't commit to it without the support of a Parliament that's made clear it doesn't have the bottle.

Get 39.80 while you can!