Extra stools this morning.
Frankly, only a GE or second referendum will do.
The end of the road has been reached, even the dimmest must now realise it, Brexit was a far too complex and complicated process to be left to the British electorate. Now that they have understood the seriousness of the proposition, and the utter deceit practised by those advocating it, the British might well understand the right choice.
But then, they are truly fucking stupid so who knows.
agree with the first contention. imo the second is a shot in the dark.
And I think both need to be set aside as there is simply no better way to break the impasse. The arguments for and against have been reiterated often enough now.
A consistent with Bobby and Troy is that they don't support democracy of the sort you and I do; certainly Bobbie thinks most people are stupid and should not be involved in the democratic processes of governance. This is the principle reason for disagreements.
To be fair, democracy is a broad term. I also agree with Bobbie that this are complex rather than binary issues.
Personally, watching the SNP last night saying how they will leave Britain and stay in Europe (despite the fact that Europe has said that Britain leaves Europe then Scotland leaves Britain then Scotland applies to the EU and goes through a new member application - albeit one where Scotland is mostly aligned thus the process should be relatively straight forward) then complaining how they are not an equal member within Britain... It just seemed like endless lies and stupidity: they know, everyone knows, if Britain Brexits, Scotland cannot just stay as an EU member, for them to get back into Europe will take at least 2 years in the smoothest of possible runs...; if Scotland feel like an unequal partner then how will they feel in the EU??? (BTW, Scotland/Scottish folk have had a massively influence throughout the British empire and UK politics for hundreds of years); Scotland has more economic ties with Britain than the EU; the list goes on... Just so dumb, no honesty behind their core reason which is and always has been: independent Scotland at all costs. Interesting how the SNP and independent Scotland supporters have such a massive role in last weekends London remain rally and the political group based in Millbank tower that organized it. The liberals are the other group who are a marginal group, tiny group nowadays, very little support from the populous, yet they are massively over-empowered through this politic group out of Millbank tower. &, you have the London crowd. like Khan, who have actually said they would prefer London to leave Britain and stay in the EU... These are the extremists, and they are a small group with lots of funding and a loud voice.
Bobbie talks about 51/52% being a marginal majority group to dominate the current discourse space, but what about the SNP/liberals/'independent 11'/Londo extremists who perhaps have support of 20%, at most, of the electorate, but are having such a massive say?
Most people who voted remain are normal folks who realize they lost the referendum and want to get on with the Brexit process and get on with their lives. They don't want another vote, they don't want a long drawn out Brexit, they just want it done - but, they don't have a prominent voice because the mainstream propaganda channels doesn't give them one.
We all know that voting to change is much harder than voting to keep the status quo, massively harder, so that 51/52% is a huge number to have voted against such an entrenched and huge group of conventional practices such as the EU (especially given the massive scare campaign). &, we also know that this group have hardended their resolve and been enlarged.
Thus, the idea that Bobbie and others spout about the 48% being ignored is utter bollox, imho. The actually number of angry remoaners who will not give in is a small number, perhaps 20% of the electorate or less, and they are supported by the SNP, liberals, independant group and London extremists - a small, but wealthy and vocal minority.
No, Bobbie, 48% are not desperate to stay in the EU.
Cycling should be banned!!!
So in your opinion the 52% is more than 52% and the 48% is less than 48%.
If you don't trust the actual numbers then your argument about democracy being disrespected by a second referendum vanish into thin air.
??? The house voted in a massive majority to leave by the 29th; that was put into law. But, it's ok for those MPs to change their minds because it parallels your wishes, but something that does not parallel your wishes, but is otherwise the same set of circumstances, is being silly??? Come on Troy, at least be consistent in your arguments or accept that there's change on all sides and everyone updates their position according to the situation.
The remarkable thing about yesterday's long and arduous day in the HofC was the intransient behaviour from everybody (Labour, SNP, other) who is consistently complaining that the PM lacks flexibility. I've been watching these long sessions for months, and all you see is the same people with the same views trying to sneakily rephrase the exact same position. Funnily enough, it's the ERG who have moved the most this last week - while all the opposing benches who are screaming for compromise have not moved an inch - their endless lies and disinformation would be funny if we weren't in the midst of such a serous situation. Our MPs are clearly not fit for purpose. Other than the Mogmeister (& I fukin hate Etonites) and Labour's caroline Flint, it's hard to find decent MPs in the current HofC mob.
It was put into law. &, we come back to the same point that I've made about you and Bobbie over and over: you do not believe in the people's right to decide. You believe in a type of 'democracy' where the populous can only voice their general opinion, but the MPs always make the final decision. The problem is, while that's the general state of the UK parliament, a referendum is a completely different situation - it is direct democracy. But, to be fair, this is not a generally accepted point by the MPs either; why would it be when it diminishes their power (a good thing in my mind because I hate the corruption that comes about through complete power).
^Daily Express logic ...aka nonsense.
This may be a good watch for some... At 3:30, the fella wants to do it all again on Monday:
At 9 mins, nutter soubry gets the respect she deserves - none. Ridiculous for the the Speaker to give her a voice ahead of other members...
Last edited by Bettyboo; 28-03-2019 at 01:43 PM.
So the remainers lose a referendum then because they don't like the result want to re run it on their terms. Sounds fair.
The DE is the holy scriptures of Brexiteer loons everywhere,
Brexiteers recite the DE mantras verbatim but apparently none of them read the DE ...yet one glance at their front pages over a given week and their target demographic is very obvious.
But, I fully understand why you want to move on, you are very touchy about having your opinion challenged ..eh Nev
Why are you simpleton Leavers so fucking stupid?
None of the Leavers really knew what it was they were voting for, and it wasn't until October 2016 when May got on her hind legs at the Tory Party conference and announced for the first time that her intended deal would mean that Britain was leaving the single market and the customs union did we all actually find out, a declaration that saw the £ plummet such was the markets' unanimous verdict it was the stupidest, dumbest decision since the actual vote to leave.
The referendum was a farce, the majority couldn't even spell Strasbourg never mind tell you where the fuck it is but to expect the average Brit munter to understand what the Withdrawal Agreement actually entails is akin to expecting them to grasp the essentials of fucking quantum physics.
The only solution is to hold a referendum to decide whether we remain in the EU or leave "under any circumstances".
As I said, given the average English moron I wouldn't be surprised that they would still vote to leave since most think that means no more coons. muslims or Poles.
Surender to what, you jabbering idiot?
The EU is the most democratic institution on the planet and has the best courts of law currently practising on the fucking planet. You want to leave it, leave it, but stop your fucking whining and eat the shit sandwich you silly Brit cvunts will be stuffing down your gobs for the next fucking decade.
Why are you simpleton Leavers so fucking stupid?
None of the Leavers really knew what it was they were voting, and it wasn't until October 2016 when May got on her hind legs at the Tory Party conference and announced for the first time that her intended deal would mean that Britain was leaving the single market and the customs union did we all actually find out, a declaration that saw the £ plummet such was the markets' unanimous verdict it was the stupidest, dumbest decision since the actual vote to leave.
The referendum was a farce, the majority couldn't even spell Strasbourg never mind tell you where the fuck it is but to expect the average Brit munter to understand what the Withdrawal Agreement actually entails is akin to expecting them to grasp the essentials of fucking quantum physics.
The only solution is to hold a referendum to decide whether we remain in the EU or leave "under any circumstances".
As I said, given the average English moron I wouldn't be surprised that they would still vote to leave since most think that means no more coons. muslims or Poles.
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