1. #6651
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    Parliament has already indicated a no-deal exit is not likely. If May continues in her usual sclerotic, malformed autistic manner she will simply crank up the heat to have her removed before either a GE or another referendum. The destruction of the Tory party, and perforce the DUP, is nearing fruition.
    BoJo and the ridiculous ERG have their uses it seems.

  2. #6652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    Parliament has already indicated a no-deal exit is not likely. If May continues in her usual sclerotic, malformed autistic manner she will simply crank up the heat to have her removed before either a GE or another referendum. The destruction of the Tory party, and perforce the DUP, is nearing fruition.
    BoJo and the ridiculous ERG have their uses it seems.
    So reading between the lines, you are rather hoping the next Govt will make easier for you and your boy friend to move to Britain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack meoff View Post
    Why, is there a big sale on at B & Q?
    If you go on a Wednesday with an oap , you get a 10% discount.
    Still not as cheap as screwfix though.

    C'mon Hard Brexit!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chittychangchang View Post
    If you go on a Wednesday with an oap , you get a 10% discount.
    That was stopped a few months ago at least up Norf.
    They mail vouchers to any age now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    So reading between the lines, you are rather hoping the next Govt will make easier for you and your boy friend to move to Britain.
    A bit below the belt, imy sure the sausage smuggler wouldn't have it any other way

  6. #6656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack meoff View Post
    That was stopped a few months ago at least up Norf.
    They mail vouchers to any age now.
    B'stards, I blame Brexit.

  7. #6657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    Parliament has already indicated a no-deal exit is not likely. If May continues in her usual sclerotic, malformed autistic manner she will simply crank up the heat to have her removed before either a GE or another referendum. The destruction of the Tory party, and perforce the DUP, is nearing fruition.
    BoJo and the ridiculous ERG have their uses it seems.
    Another one who can only hear his own voice.

    The parliamentary miscreants have been hushed and there is now, and never has been, the need for a GE or another referendum. The gbp is now at 1.28 to the $. So much for parity.

    You and your sclerotic, malformed autistic personage have lost, so feel free to carry on listening to the drone of your boring, pathetic, moaning voice.

  8. #6658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chittychangchang View Post
    A bit below the belt, imy sure the sausage smuggler wouldn't have it any other way
    Well Chitty, anecdotally The Gent failed to get his batty past the scrutiny of UK immigration caseworkers before - now it could have been the lack of supporting funds or the fact that i imagine when he was interviewed, the use of the words Twat, fuckwit and wanker in every sentence may have coloured their view of his application. I could be wrong.

  9. #6659
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    The continuing machinations of remainers seem to be foiled at every turn. Leadsom has arranged house business to preclude any opportunity for Bercow to allow amendments. Grieves has failed with his draft and May has played a blinder by putting the ball back in the EU court.

    Knowing that parliament has already rejected the EU deal, she has taken the same deal back to them. Doesn’t really matter what they do now. Hard Brexit has become a certainty and she was right all along. Brexit means Brexit. Bwahahahaha
    Not quite. According to the governmentinstitute website it is possible to put an amendment to the Plan B motion. This can be used to gain time for backbenchers to bring about a change that can force government to change course. I'm not sure if any of it is legally binding but the Government cannot ratify the withdrawal bill without approval from the House. The website is suggesting it is possible to vote for an extension to A50 until December if there is no agreement by 11Feb.

    There's still a few more twists of the knife for May to endure yet.

    You think she played a blinder with the EU? They told her she was having trouble passing motion, she was so full of shit.

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    There is no need for us in the UK to Don yellow vests yet as our vote hasn't been overturned yet. Clock is ticking, March 29 is d day.

  11. #6661
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    ^^ I made a bit of a mistake with that post. The idea is to pass legislation to force the government to extend A50, if voted through. It was the Grieve amendment that was not legally binding. I'll post a link tomorrow.

    No-deal can still be stopped if there is enough support in Parliament. However, it won't be plain sailing and could end up in the High Court again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Not quite. According to the governmentinstitute website it is possible to put an amendment to the Plan B motion. This can be used to gain time for backbenchers to bring about a change that can force government to change course. I'm not sure if any of it is legally binding but the Government cannot ratify the withdrawal bill without approval from the House. The website is suggesting it is possible to vote for an extension to A50 until December if there is no agreement by 11Feb.

    There's still a few more twists of the knife for May to endure yet.

    You think she played a blinder with the EU? They told her she was having trouble passing motion, she was so full of shit.
    It may be possible to vote for an extension, or anything else requiring the approval of both sides, but ....... I seriously doubt that anything other than UK capitulation will get a hearing on your side of the channel.
    Bye bye Eu it is then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Another one who can only hear his own voice.

    The parliamentary miscreants have been hushed and there is now, and never has been, the need for a GE or another referendum. The gbp is now at 1.28 to the $. So much for parity.

    You and your sclerotic, malformed autistic personage have lost, so feel free to carry on listening to the drone of your boring, pathetic, moaning voice.
    that's rich coming from you, you diaper filled babbling old fool

  14. #6664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Bye bye Eu it is then.
    believe me, everyone in the EU are counting the days

    bye bye fuckers

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    ^ not so much the German tax payers...

    (Are France, Italy and Spain in a good position to increase their contributions?)



    Last edited by Bettyboo; 20-01-2019 at 12:11 AM.

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    it's all academic now, you are fucking off, and thanks for your financial contribution for all those years, it helped saving Greece and now we will benefit from it, without sharing with you

    win-win

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    ^What is the source for those pics Betty? ...2nd one looks like the Mail or Express?


    Meanwhile, according to the CBI:

    The Confederation of British Industry is a UK business organisation, which in total speaks for 190,000 businesses, made up of around 1,500 direct and 188,500 indirect members


    Factsheet 2 - Benefits of EU membership outweigh costs


    • 71% of CBI member businesses report that the UK’s membership of the EU has had an overall positive impact on their business, including 67% of SME members. Only 13% said there had been a negative impact. Overall,78% said they would vote to remain in the EU in a referendum, with 77% of SME’s taking the same position.
    • A CBI literature review suggests that the net benefit of EU membership to the UK could be in the region of 4-5% of GDP or £62bn-£78bn a year – roughly the economies of the North East and Northern Ireland taken together.


    Access to a $16.6 trillion a year Single Market of 500m people is the key benefit



    • UK firms’ access to the Single Market goes beyond a standard free-trade agreement - the EU has eliminated tariff barriers and customs procedures within its borders, and has taken strides towards removing non-tariff barriers - such as different product regulations - by enforcing EU-wide competition law and coordinating product regulations.
    • 76% of CBI members say that the ability to freely buy and sell products in the EU has had a positive impact on their business, including 74% of SMEs.
    • It has been estimated that UK trade with some countries in Europe could have increased by as much as 50% as a result of EU membership.
    • The Single Market also underpins access to European supply chains. In 2009 $207bn of the UK’s total of $293bn of exports to the rest of the EU27 was used as inputs to industries, rather than being consumed directly; and the UK imported $161bn of intermediates from the EU27 in 2009. Imported intermediates are important even to domestically-focused sectors: the health & social care sector used $19bn of imported intermediates (principally of pharmaceuticals and other chemicals).


    The EU has helped open global markets to UK firms on strong terms



    • The EU is a springboard for trade with the rest of the world through its global clout: it accounted for 23% of the global economy in 2012 in dollar terms. Through 30 trade deals negotiated by the EU, including the Single Market itself, British firms have full access to a $24 trillion market. The recent deal with Canada and on-going discussions with Japan and the US could double this to $47 trillion - the UK would struggle to achieve the same quality of trade deals independently.
    • 58% of CBI members think that extra-EU trade agreements have had a positive impact on their business, including 55% of SMEs, compared to 3% who thought the impact was negative.


    Membership has increased flows of investment into the UK



    • Investment flows across borders inside the EU have roughly doubled following the introduction of the Single Market. As the EU’s leading investment destination, the UK was a key beneficiary: the EU accounted for 47% of the UK’s stock of inward FDI at the end of 2011, with investments worth over $1.2 trillion.
    • Access to the EU Single Market has also helped attract investment into the UK from outside the EU.
    • 52% of CBI members say that the ability to invest in other EU states without restriction has had a positive impact on business.


    Free movement of labour has broug[at][at][at][at]ht benefits to the UK economy



    • Free movement of labour helps UK business plug skills gaps. 63% of CBI members say that the ability to recruit and transfer staff from across the EU has been positive for business, including 48% of SMEs. Overall only 1% of members said the impact had been negative – and only 2% of SMEs said it had been negative.
    • UK citizens have also benefited from free movement of labour – at least three-quarters of a million live in other EU countries.
    • CBI recognises that there is public debate over immigration – consideration must be given to how free movement can practically operate in an EU of 28 in a way that commands public support.


    Business sees the UK’s lack of unilateral control over some regulation as a downside to membership



    • There is recognition that common rules are needed to support the Single Market. 52% of CBI members think that common product standards across the EU are a positive, including 50% of SMEs. Overall, only 15% of members said that the impact of common standards had been negative.
    • However, firms are concerned about labour market regulation. 49% of CBI members say that the pan-EU employment rights in areas such as working hours are a negative for business.


    The UK’s net budgetary contribution is a small net cost relative to the benefits



    • The UK’s net contribution to the EU budget is around €7.3bn, or 0.4% of GDP. As a comparison that’s around a quarter of what the UK spends on the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, and less than an eighth of the UK’s defence spend. The £116 per person net contribution is less than that from Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Germany and the Netherlands.


    About us - CBI

    -------


    Its ok, the Tories can easily copy and paste all 40 of the EU's external trade deals the second after midnight on March 29th ...oh wait!

  18. #6668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^^ I made a bit of a mistake with that post. The idea is to pass legislation to force the government to extend A50, if voted through. It was the Grieve amendment that was not legally binding. I'll post a link tomorrow.

    No-deal can still be stopped if there is enough support in Parliament. However, it won't be plain sailing and could end up in the High Court again.
    Been explained to you many times how a clean Brexit or what you call no deal can be stopped but I will explain again for your benefit, Doris deal goes through or A50 is extended or revoked otherwise clean Brexit it is on March 29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    Been explained to you many times how a clean Brexit or what you call no deal can be stopped but I will explain again for your benefit, Doris deal goes through or A50 is extended or revoked otherwise clean Brexit it is on March 29.
    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    1. Leadsom has arranged parliamentary time to avoid Bercow and friends from usurping the authority of Parliament.

    2. May has taken the rejected deal back to the EU and left them to fester on it, knowing, not only will they reject it, they will press ahead with no deal plans, because no deal remains the ONLY default position.

    3. The EU cannot change that position, and neither can the duplicitous remainers.

    4. Butters will carry on ignoring all voices except his own. He will add to the egg all over his face from previous failures, but still make self proclaimed victory noises.

    Bwahahahaha
    Just to clarify, because extending A50 doesn't really help unless there is a solution on offer that warrants the extension. The EU is having elections in May and has reallocated MEP seats on the basis of the UK having withdrawn. It will be difficult to ask them to delay the elections or change the MEP allocations unless a firm commitment to Brexit (or no Brexit) has been provided.

    Agreed Parliament cannot do anything on Monday and has to wait until the vote on 29th January (a week on Tuesday) but that is nothing more than delaying tactics by the Government in the vain hope that they can get some meaningful changes into the defeated plan. Why on earth they can't take defeat on the chin and find a better course of action is beyond me but the Maybot is being led by, rather than leading, her cabinet.

    This is the idea, taken from: https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-solve-impasse

    Following the spectacular defeat of the Government’s proposed Brexit deal, discussions about how Parliament might find a way to take control of the process have gained currency.

    The most prominent plan – put forward by Conservative MP Nick Boles and a cross-party group of former ministers – relies on mobilising the apparent parliamentary majority against a no deal Brexit to establish a legislative ‘insurance policy’. This would compel the Government to ask the EU to extend Article 50 if it can’t persuade MPs to agree to its own deal.

    The Boles plan involves two steps to be taken once the Government returns to the Commons with its ‘Plan B’ motion:

    1. To persuade MPs to pass an amendment which would temporarily suspend certain parliamentary rules (Standing Orders). This would allow these backbenchers to take control of parliamentary time in the Commons, probably just for a day.
    2. To require the Commons to use that time to consider a new bill. That bill - in its latest iteration to be tabled by Labour MP Yvette Cooper - would compel the Prime Minister to request an extension of the Article 50 deadline until December 2019 if the House of Commons hasn’t approved the Government’s deal by 11 February.

    Boles has now withdrawn his initial proposal to ask the Liaison Committee (made up of select committee chairs) to come up with an alternative plan for Brexit. While it would not be unprecedented for the House to ask a Committee to draw up a bill, the Liaison Committee has made it clear it is not willing to take on this role.


    The House of Commons can choose to conduct its business however it chooses, including by suspending parliamentary rules. And it is possible to pass legislation in 24 hours. But there are three significant hurdles to overcome for the plan to work.


    First, the amendment to the Government’s motion will need to be selected for a vote by the Speaker. It is most likely that the amendment will be to the ‘business motion’ which establishes how the subsequent debate on the Government’s motion is to be conducted.


    The Speaker recently took an expansive view of the amendments to business motions, in allowing Dominic Grieve’s amendment to the business motion governing the last ‘meaningful vote’. It seems likely he will prove similarly indulgent of this backbench effort.


    Second, the amendment will need to be agreed to by the House.


    Third, the backbenchers will need to attract the support of a majority of MPs to get the bill through the Commons. And then they will need to pull off the same trick in the Lords. Assuming the Government opposes the bill, it is likely to need support of the Opposition frontbench to pass.

    While the bill would buy both the Government and Parliament more time and defer a no deal exit, time alone will not resolve the current impasse in Parliament. Although the majority of MPs do not want the UK to leave the EU without a deal, the only way to actually prevent a no deal exit is for them to vote in favour of a negotiated deal or for the Government to revoke Article 50 completely.


    And even if the draft bill gets over these legislative hurdles, the UK cannot unilaterally extend Article 50. While the Prime Minister can ask for an extension, this will require the consent of all other 27 member states of the EU, which is far from guaranteed, particularly if the extension is for more than a few months.


    Clearly there is a plausible route, albeit one with a number of hurdles, that would give backbench MPs the chance to take control of the Brexit process. However, it would only take Parliament so far, and would leave MPs nowhere closer to setting on a positive way forward in the Brexit process.
    ================================================== ========

    I would imagine that if the Government try to block meaningful debate on alternative solutions and continue with the current Plan then a second no-confidence motion will be the result. However, I don't think that a GE will resolve the issue any more than a second referendum would. There have been too many lies and false portrayals of the EU in the UK over too many years and it simply isn't possible to get the reality of the situation across without being shouted down with silly slogans and inexactitudes.

  20. #6670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    The EU is having elections in May and has reallocated MEP seats on the basis of the UK having withdrawn. It will be difficult to ask them to delay the elections or change the MEP allocations unless a firm commitment to Brexit (or no Brexit) has been provided.
    I can't see any difficulties there, Britain should be out by March 29 and if they aren't then they have lost their chairs and should be expelled to stand in the terracing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    ...Now, we are at the same point as we were when we invoked article 50 - we're leaving, get on with it...
    Not so sure about that, BB. May was complicit in producing a deal that Parliament would reject, though she showed her hand by making it so obvious. All this while running the clock down so that we either accept the unacceptable and bleed money as a permanent vassal state, or crash out with no deal which will not happen. Whatever the outcome she has sealed her place at the EU trough, as has Bercrow btw.

    After tomorrow's broiling, since she cannot extend A50 without permission which will not be forthcoming, her only realistic options are no deal or rip up A50 pending Ref2. Quite a feat for Brit politics to hit spectacular new lows, because while she refuses to narrow the options by removing no deal from the table, it is and always has been off the table; and while consistently and clearly stating there will be no Ref2, that was her goal all along.

    So I go with Ref2, and if it comes with a stay option then that will win by a mile. While it would generate heavy duty legal, political and social issues, that is something we will need to live with or more accurately adjust to, because a sneaky Remain-heavy establishment are terrified of radical change and concerned more for their jobs than fanciful notions of nation or democracy.

    A zillion-0 to EU, they get what they want, us, and our elected representatives get what they want, stay.

    Later on, as the EU melts down we go with it, but that's no big deal either if you think of it, because even if Brexit came through the fallout would wash us away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    You can’t even get simple stuff right. I support leaving the crippled and profligate union that has control freakery at the centre of everything it does.
    The last thing UK needs is being directed by broken fools like you, and those you claim to support.

    For the benefit of any reader who does not understand the intricacies of a second referendum. It will never happen. There is neither the time nor the support for it. Even if it were, by some miracle to happen, the result is by no means a foregone conclusion, and any result would lead to greater confusion and further instability.
    with less than 10 weeks to go, the timescale for a credible referendum has now passed.

    I'd say the time for a credible withdrawal has passed as well....

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    'Credibility' went out of the window in 2016 once the BREXIT battle bus rolled into town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    Just to clarify, because extending A50 doesn't really help unless there is a solution on offer that warrants the extension. The EU is having elections in May and has reallocated MEP seats on the basis of the UK having withdrawn. It will be difficult to ask them to delay the elections or change the MEP allocations unless a firm commitment to Brexit (or no Brexit) has been provided.

    Agreed Parliament cannot do anything on Monday and has to wait until the vote on 29th January (a week on Tuesday) but that is nothing more than delaying tactics by the Government in the vain hope that they can get some meaningful changes into the defeated plan. Why on earth they can't take defeat on the chin and find a better course of action is beyond me but the Maybot is being led by, rather than leading, her cabinet.

    This is the idea, taken from: https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-solve-impasse

    Following the spectacular defeat of the Government’s proposed Brexit deal, discussions about how Parliament might find a way to take control of the process have gained currency.

    The most prominent plan – put forward by Conservative MP Nick Boles and a cross-party group of former ministers – relies on mobilising the apparent parliamentary majority against a no deal Brexit to establish a legislative ‘insurance policy’. This would compel the Government to ask the EU to extend Article 50 if it can’t persuade MPs to agree to its own deal.

    The Boles plan involves two steps to be taken once the Government returns to the Commons with its ‘Plan B’ motion:

    1. To persuade MPs to pass an amendment which would temporarily suspend certain parliamentary rules (Standing Orders). This would allow these backbenchers to take control of parliamentary time in the Commons, probably just for a day.
    2. To require the Commons to use that time to consider a new bill. That bill - in its latest iteration to be tabled by Labour MP Yvette Cooper - would compel the Prime Minister to request an extension of the Article 50 deadline until December 2019 if the House of Commons hasn’t approved the Government’s deal by 11 February.

    Boles has now withdrawn his initial proposal to ask the Liaison Committee (made up of select committee chairs) to come up with an alternative plan for Brexit. While it would not be unprecedented for the House to ask a Committee to draw up a bill, the Liaison Committee has made it clear it is not willing to take on this role.


    The House of Commons can choose to conduct its business however it chooses, including by suspending parliamentary rules. And it is possible to pass legislation in 24 hours. But there are three significant hurdles to overcome for the plan to work.


    First, the amendment to the Government’s motion will need to be selected for a vote by the Speaker. It is most likely that the amendment will be to the ‘business motion’ which establishes how the subsequent debate on the Government’s motion is to be conducted.


    The Speaker recently took an expansive view of the amendments to business motions, in allowing Dominic Grieve’s amendment to the business motion governing the last ‘meaningful vote’. It seems likely he will prove similarly indulgent of this backbench effort.


    Second, the amendment will need to be agreed to by the House.


    Third, the backbenchers will need to attract the support of a majority of MPs to get the bill through the Commons. And then they will need to pull off the same trick in the Lords. Assuming the Government opposes the bill, it is likely to need support of the Opposition frontbench to pass.

    While the bill would buy both the Government and Parliament more time and defer a no deal exit, time alone will not resolve the current impasse in Parliament. Although the majority of MPs do not want the UK to leave the EU without a deal, the only way to actually prevent a no deal exit is for them to vote in favour of a negotiated deal or for the Government to revoke Article 50 completely.


    And even if the draft bill gets over these legislative hurdles, the UK cannot unilaterally extend Article 50. While the Prime Minister can ask for an extension, this will require the consent of all other 27 member states of the EU, which is far from guaranteed, particularly if the extension is for more than a few months.


    Clearly there is a plausible route, albeit one with a number of hurdles, that would give backbench MPs the chance to take control of the Brexit process. However, it would only take Parliament so far, and would leave MPs nowhere closer to setting on a positive way forward in the Brexit process.
    ================================================== ========

    I would imagine that if the Government try to block meaningful debate on alternative solutions and continue with the current Plan then a second no-confidence motion will be the result. However, I don't think that a GE will resolve the issue any more than a second referendum would. There have been too many lies and false portrayals of the EU in the UK over too many years and it simply isn't possible to get the reality of the situation across without being shouted down with silly slogans and inexactitudes.
    Thank you for clarification in a single post. Much easier to write it down than to actually achieve any of it. Far too many if and buts, and many of them on shaky ground.
    A few points if I may.
    The electorate has waited too long already. Expecting them to accept further delay unti December 2019 will not go down well at all.
    Getting any of this through both houses, and where necessary, through the EU echo chamber, will also prove difficult.
    Bercow needs to be very careful with his decisions. He has probably lost his automatic peerage already. Further sanctions are available if he considers stepping out of line again.

    Finally, too much of this hinges on unknown outcomes required to meet the traitors aims. Only one domino needs to fall the wrong way, and their whole plan is scuppered.

    Keeping no deal in the mix keeps everyone honest in their personal aspiration, on both sides of the channel. I note that many of the 27 are preparing and even passing legislation in the event of no deal. I wonder why?

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    Presumably they are doing it to show that a no-deal Brexit is nothing more than an empty threat as far as the EU countries are concerned. It's nothing more than pointing a gun at your own head.

    There was a good article on that website about the effects on aviation, should a no-brexit arise. The EU offer of extending certain rules for a year only covers the basics. It doesn't help UK airlines in the short term, many of whom will lose routes in Europe. It will cost easyJet and may affect Ryanair as well. Only the first four of the nine aviation freedoms will be in effect.

    The Independent was reporting that if legislation does come in that could affect Brexit, then the ERG may side with May to get her deal through. Lots still to this soap opera.

    I'm enjoying Thailand too much to overly worry. I have another break in June and then again in Autumn. No way I could take 4 months a year off in the UK. I quite fancy 12 months off a year, maybe I'll take up photography...

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