1. #6276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    'were' being the correct tense. They no longer are the biggest supporters of Brexit.
    The trouble is the metropolitan elite and Westminster bubble. No one ventures outside the M25. If they did find it within themselves to venture North of the Watford Gap then they would find out support for Brexit is stronger than ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    You couldn't clarify butter.

    As in the above, you don't even make sense half the time.
    <gosh!>

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    The overwhelming and decisive rejection by MPs of Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement to leave the European Union is a shattering blow to the authority of the prime minister. She has spent two years negotiating a deal, which in substance was the opposite of what she said she wanted in public, only to see it repudiated by parliament. Her minority government has now been defeated on no fewer than 28 occasions. Britain is leaving the EU in weeks and Mrs May leads a cabinet that is hopelessly split, a party that is riven with disagreements and a country that is deeply divided. So emphatic is the Commons historic rebuff that Mrs May’s deal is finished. Mrs May lost by 230 votes – the greatest defeat of a government ever. The scale of the opposition means it is not credible Mrs May could bring the motion back to the Commons, modified with a few tweaks from Brussels, and hope for success a second time round.

    We do not have to settle for the Hobson’s choice of the May deal or no deal. The trouble is the Tory party is split between those who want a deal and those who do not. Mrs May has intensified the divisions within her party, rather than resolve them. She chose to start negotiations over Brexit not with the EU but with her own hardliners. The red lines Mrs May subsequently set made it impossible for her to get a deal that would bring her fractious party together, let alone reach out to her political opponents. Her agreement ended up shaped by Mrs May’s obsession with immigration and placating Brexit extremists. The result is a “blindfold Brexit” – where almost everything about the future relationship with Europe is up in the air for two more years. It required a leap of faith to place trust in a prime minister who, the Commons wisely decided, deserved very little.


    In the current circumstances, there is no majority in parliament for any of the alternative Brexit deals. This could lead to a disaster: Britain crashing out of the EU without a deal. That is why MPs must remove it as an option. Labour has triggered a vote of no confidence in the government but is unlikely to win. That points to the need for a mechanism to allow a Commons majority to take control of the Brexit process. This would require innovation, of the kind seen last week, so committees can be empowered and laws brought forward. But to have other options would require asking the EU for more time. It requires parliamentary cooperation of the kind hitherto unseen. Jeremy Corbyn and Mrs May ought not to stand in the way of such dealings. Constitutional devices such as citizens’ assemblies, raised by Labour MP Lisa Nandy, and another referendum would allow leaders to hold their parties together and provide legitimacy for whatever the public decides. These are not denials of democracy but a reinforcement of it.


    Mrs May’s decision to put party politics ahead of national interest means this country will aimlessly drift as the government attempts to recast a withdrawal agreement. An absence of leadership can lead to a sense of panic, one inflated by a government stockpiling food and medicines as if preparing for a war. We need to end the chaos and division that have done so much to disfigure our country. The question we face is whether there can be a durable relationship between Brexit Britain and the EU, which allows both to cooperate on the basis of shared interests and values. Mrs May left it far too late to accept the costs of leaving, preferring to pander to MPs whose snake-oil sales pitch is that there will not be any cost associated with Brexit at all. “Having your cake and eating it” is the Brexiter attitude that encapsulates this inability to think in terms of costs and benefits.


    Yet coming clean about these things is necessary to move forward. The country now faces a situation without precedent in its constitutional history: how to reconcile the sovereignty of the people with the sovereignty of parliament. The prime minister has been humbled into admitting she needs to win her opponents over. The Brexit vote was driven by stagnant wages, regional disparities and a soulless form of capital accumulation. These were not caused by the EU, nor will they be solved by leaving it. Only policies enacted by purposeful government can do that. Mrs May has not provided either.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...but-whats-next
    Only a social idealist, or a communist dictator would dream up such unlikely events, to pacify a divided nation. Never mind, at least the last two years has not been totally wasted. Everyone has seen first hand what a woeful Union Europe is. The plans they have for federalisation and totalitarian control over member states are now on public record. As you and Troy are so enamoured of them, perhaps you would both be better off moving further east, to the land that has no such divisions, publicly anyway.
    Enjoy your trip.
    There really was no need for the WA to go to 500+ pages. The benefits of remaining could be writ large on the back of a postage stamp, in thick felt tip pen.

    Hopefully your grauniad scribe is right about one thing. The UK is forced to leave without a deal. That is probably the only thing that can truly unite these amateur politicians.

  4. #6279
    Hangin' Around cyrille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Hopefully your grauniad scribe is right about one thing. The UK is forced to leave without a deal.

    Britain is leaving the EU in weeks
    That's obviously a description of how things stand rather than necessarily a forecast.

    Christ, did all of you BREXITers get kicked out of school without any qualifications like that numpty Chitty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
    Hopefully your grauniad scribe is right about one thing. The UK is forced to leave without a deal. That is probably the only thing that can truly unite these amateur politicians.
    My word, if there's one thing this thread has taught, it's how batshitcrazy you are.

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    The EU's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said that the EU will "remain united and determined to find a deal".

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    Squirrel have you been hacked? Hope so, it's scary seeing you post longer than a two line snipe, and for that matter on topic.
    The Guardian......copy and paste....corbyn's mouth piece.

  8. #6283
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    That's obviously a description of how things stand rather than necessarily a forecast.Christ, did all of you BREXITers get kicked out of school without any qualifications like that numpty Chitty?
    Its obvious some were slow learners and some have been at school most of their lives, albeit foreign ones, still get it wrong though.....
    Last edited by NamPikToot; 16-01-2019 at 02:38 PM.

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    We won't be leaving end of March that much is clear now, one big stitch up. Doris will never be able to get any version of her deal through, mps will find a way to block a clean Brexit so an extension of A50 it is which the EU will agree to as they don't want a clean Brexit either.

    Only unknown is what the public reaction is going to be, over 2 1/2 years ago we voted to leave 17.4 million of us and we haven't gone away in fact up to now we have remained remarkably restrained considering everything that has been done in an attempt to stop Brexit. A reaction there will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    The Guardian......copy and paste....corbyn's mouth piece.
    I wouldn't call the Guardian although a left wing rag Corbyns mouth piece as they have probably done more hit pieces on him than anyone else, to the point Corbynistas have boycotted it.

  11. #6286
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    Why don't we just invade Europe like we did in 1944, then the oily scrounging fuckers can beg *us* to release them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo View Post
    There won't be a general election; the DUP and Conservatives will stick together on the vote of no confidence to see that off.

    Obviously, Labour would be in a strong position if they had a good leader (but so too would the other parties...). Saw a C4 'news' piece where lots of Labourites were claiming Corbyn should come out against Brexit, but how can he do that when the Labour strongholds were the biggest supporters of Brexit? If Labour went even more anti-Brexit that'd be a kick in the nuts to their supporters.

    The default position is leaving, so that's what folks should focus on now.

    To change that default position would be very difficult, need changes in parliamentary procedure (that's possible with the speaker abusing his position so consistently...) and lead to an even worse position than we're currently in. Another vote would be insanity on so many levels.

    Despite the bickering of weak-minded individuals who have bought into the fearmongering dogma pushed out by the Globalist 'elite', the easiest route forward is to accept the vote and get on with exiting.

    Every party have been shambolic in this process. The media have been shown up for what they are - ignorant propagandaers. The EU ideologues have shown their colours - their personal ideals and personal privileges are more important than the voting public or citizens' rights. What has been very interesting is how people who claim to be democratic, simply refuse to follow democratic procedures, instead choosing to whinge and whine and use any and every argument/way to avoid following simple democratic process.

    We had a vote, Brexit got the highest vote, now get on with it...
    what you say above is no longer correct,
    if nobody does anything now UK will not leave EU on the 29th

    it used to be as you describe, but as of last week there are new statutes in play
    the fix(es) to Tax/Finance acts prepared and proposed by Y Cooper et al and passed by parliament last week changes the framework

    with todays enacted statutes UK can not leave EU without an active "yes, go ahead leave" from parliament
    the much talked about default isn't there anymore

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    A loss by 230 votes. She has lost all dignity. She is a witch. She must burn..
    skin is too thick to catch fire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    The EU's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said that the EU will "remain fragile and desperate to find a deal".
    ftfy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    That's obviously a description of how things stand rather than necessarily a forecast.

    Christ, did all of you BREXITers get kicked out of school without any qualifications like that numpty Chitty?
    Stating the blindingly obvious is necessary for those who consider themselves lecturers, rather than teachers. Otherwise, their socialist leanings might be misinterpreted.

    Its a guardian opinion piece ffs, not war and peace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    what you say above is no longer correct,
    if nobody does anything now UK will not leave EU on the 29th

    it used to be as you describe, but as of last week there are new statutes in play
    the fix(es) to Tax/Finance acts prepared and proposed by Y Cooper et al and passed by parliament last week changes the framework

    with todays enacted statutes UK can not leave EU without an active "yes, go ahead leave" from parliament
    the much talked about default isn't there anymore
    You are wrong, it is still written in law by an act of Parliament we leave on March 29 and with no deal if one hasn't been agreed. All Cooper has done is that the government now has to ask parliament for funds for no deal planning and tax raising powers, it does not change the leaving date. Only way we will NOT be leaving on March 29 is if the government revoke A50 or the EU agree to extend it.

  17. #6292
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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    I wouldn't call the Guardian although a left wing rag Corbyns mouth piece as they have probably done more hit pieces on him than anyone else, to the point Corbynistas have boycotted it.
    BB i'm going to have to throw you back, you're the wrong fish i'm afraid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    I wouldn't call the Guardian although a left wing rag Corbyns mouth piece as they have probably done more hit pieces on him than anyone else, to the point Corbynistas have boycotted it.
    Best thing a leftie organ like the Grauniad could do is help ease him into retirement.

    For those that can't follow the rationale, it creates a potential Labour PM.

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    For those like me who don't want to see a Labour government have to hope Corbyn remains leader for as long as possible then hands the reins over to Diane Abbot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    what you say above is no longer correct,
    if nobody does anything now UK will not leave EU on the 29th

    it used to be as you describe, but as of last week there are new statutes in play
    the fix(es) to Tax/Finance acts prepared and proposed by Y Cooper et al and passed by parliament last week changes the framework

    with todays enacted statutes UK can not leave EU without an active "yes, go ahead leave" from parliament
    the much talked about default isn't there anymore
    Are you sure? A50 triggered a two year transition period which without further attention expires on March 29, when we leave the EU with or without a deal. If no deal, everything is negotiable.

    As Corbyn I'd be quite nervous anytime Y Cooper approaches from behind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post
    For those like me who don't want to see a Labour government have to hope Corbyn remains leader for as long as possible then hands the reins over to Diane Abbot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille View Post
    You couldn't clarify butter.
    Very easy. Put butter in a pot, heat to a simmer and continue for a few minutes until slightly brown. Delicious.

    About Brexit I have no idea how this will play out. To opt out of a hard brexit someone has to introduce legislation and call off article 50, right? The government still has to deliver it to the EU.
    "don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence"

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    This is how much of a mong Corbyn is, Doris has to come back to Parliament on Monday and say what her new plan is regarding Brexit and we all know nothing of any consequence will have changed and she will just spout her usual shit so he should have waited till Monday before triggering his no confidence vote when he might have had a slight chance of winning where as 0 chance today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy View Post
    ^ You've lost me. 432 noes to 202 ayes...

    How many are hard brexit? That's 2/3 of the house she failed to convince. I'd say 25-30% hardliners.
    got you, didn't read right that 230 number on BBC, it said 230 Majority Votes, whatever that meant

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    Quote Originally Posted by lom View Post
    So true and not only for Britain/Brexit.
    European voters has revolted against their elected politicians since the 2008 economical crisis for which the populace had to foot the bill and the revolting has only escalated since then.
    We are in an economical boom but laborers got nothing, they've only seen a reduction of their purchasing power.
    In France it was raising of the petrol price that made the people say enough is enough but they did at least revolt against and put the blame on their own president, the Britons have something to learn from that..
    The Brits are sheep and cowards, they will never revolt against authority, they have been raised to be good little soldiers and not to act on anything

    they couldn't even get rid of their royalty, like any proper democracy would do these days

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