Brexit - It's Still On!

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Originally Posted by jabir

Are you suggesting we reject the result of a 2 year old referendum because it didn't go your way, and accept the result of a 40-year old referendum because it did?

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No. The referendum was for guidance only and not legally binding. The result was divided, and the wish to leave was not strong enough to force the UK government down a one-way road to Brexit. It was however, strong enough to force a serious debate on the pros and cons of leaving the EU and alternative trading arrangements.

The majority of the debate has taken place and the Brexit alternatives currently on the table put the UK in a worse position than the status-quo.

The debate needs to be completed and alternative arrangements need to be voted on. If these alternatives are voted down, (ie May's deal and no-deal) then alternative solutions need to be discussed and these should include the alternative to stay in the EU.

Everything else is just an amusement until the debate is finished and the solutions voted upon.

Business, the majority of the Commons and the majority of the Lords are not in favour of Brexit, in any of its guises. Their dilemma is how to explain reality to the electorate without being seen to be complete idiots. It isn't going to be easy with the majority of the press gunning for leave so I guess this is who they need to convince first.

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Originally Posted by Troy

Nothing like uttering nonsense and dishing it out as facts, but that seems to be the Brexiteer way. The UK opted out of the Euro and Schengen and there is no EU army. Carry on anyway...

BTW the Germans don't control the Euro and can no longer dictate European monetary policy in the way they could when there were individual currencies.

Meanwhile, trade is still the most important part of the EU and open borders for trade and people is still something the UK needs.

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Interesting...who told you Germany is not the driving force behind the EU? Or do you mean Frau does dictate but not so forcefully as before?

Who gives a fuck if the majority of Parliament are remoaners and against Brexit, they are our servants and best they remember that as we their masters gave them a clear instruction to Brexit.

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Originally Posted by Troy

Do you have a link to support that statement?

I'm pretty sure that's not what he said back in the Summer.

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https://www.ft.com/content/4f0ea43e-...a-7342fe5e173f

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Originally Posted by Troy

Germany were one of the major creditors in the Greece bail-out, which also included France and Italy. This is not the same as being in control of the ECB, which Germany are not. They have influence but not as much influence as their size suggests. Too many getting on the bandwagon of "Germany dictating the EU" when it is not the case. This lack of influence versus contributions is one of the reasons why the UK is upset, but it is necessary for all countries to participate rather than just the few major ones in order not to have hegemony, that you wittered on about in a previous post.

One reason for having an EU army would be to allow Germany to increase its spending to 2% GDP, in line with NATO requirements, without having the biggest army in Europe. Germany is still very mindful of its past and is going out if its way not to over influence the EU politically, financially or militarily. The exact opposite of your continued accusations.

I have enjoyed the benefits of the UK being in the EU for many years now. I would prefer the arrangements to be international, rather than confined to Europe, being able to live and work freely anywhere in the world would be my dream.

You can dress up Brexit any way you like but it's still a disastrous thing to be doing in the 21st Century.

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Typical remain supporter. You just completely ignored every justification of mine and returned to remain mantras.

I expect that crap from the idiot Butterfly, but I thought you were better than that.
Please explain:
Why the EU needs an Army
How will it be funded
Where is the military infrastructure
Who will supply the bodies
What is the operational criteria for deployment
Command and control?
Checks and balances?

What about NATO?

Interesting in that if the referendum had been run on a first past the post system as per a general election in the 650 imdividual constituencies leave would have won 408-242. So you can see the problem the out of touch remoaner Mps have as in 408 of them are representing constituencies that voted to leave.

NATO needs to go, the EU Army is all about taking control of our own defense strategy

as a Brexiter, I would think you could get it, but apparently you are too mentally compartimentalized to realize that simple need,

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Originally Posted by buriramboy

Interesting in that if the referendum had been run on a first past the post system as per a general election in the 650 imdividual constituencies leave would have won 408-242. So you can see the problem the out of touch remoaner Mps have as in 408 of them are representing constituencies that voted to leave.

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doesn't matter, people have the right to change their mind

why are you guys so afraid of a new referendum? if so, just go with Maybot deal, at least it's the beginning of an exit, or else that option will be gone forever and you will REMAIN

^ ... and have changed their mind so the MPs are representing their constituents wishes. Well not all of them, Bojo and Gove are failing to represent theirs...

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Originally Posted by Dragonfly

doesn't matter, people have the right to change their mind

why are you guys so afraid of a new referendum? if so, just go with Maybot deal, at least it's the beginning of an exit, or else that option will be gone forever and you will REMAIN

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Because another referendum is pointless, it was a once in a generation vote not a best of 3 or 5. If the result of the last referendum is not going to be honoured then why should people have any confidence in the results of any future referendums being honoured. Doris deal isn't Brexit, it's the worst of all worlds.

That Gavin Williamson guy is an idiot.

Britain to become 'true global player' post-Brexit with military bases in South East Asia and Caribbean, says Defence Secretary.

Britain will open two new military bases in the Caribbean and South East Asia as the country looks to step up its military presence overseas after Brexit, Gavin Williamson has revealed.

The Defence secretary urges Britons to stop downplaying the country's influence internationally and recognise that the UK will stand tall on the world stage after leaving the European Union.

In an interview with The Telegraph in his Ministry of Defence office, Mr Williamson says: "We have got to be so much more optimistic about our future as we exit the European Union. This is our biggest moment as a nation since the end of the Second World War, when we can recast ourselves in a different way... "

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ilitary-bases/

Britain considering a new military base in S-E Asia, with Singapore or Brunei as possible sites

Five decades after Britain announced its military pullout from Singapore, it is considering a renewed presence in South-east Asia - with the Republic as a possible site.

Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson told The Telegraph that Britain will turn its back on the 1968 "East of Suez" strategy that saw it withdraw from bases in Malaysia, Singapore, the Persian Gulf and the Maldives. He said it seeks two new bases in South-east Asia and the Caribbean in its bid to be a global power post-Brexit.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapo...se-in-s-e-asia

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Originally Posted by Troy

No. The referendum was for guidance only and not legally binding. The result was divided, and the wish to leave was not strong enough to force the UK government down a one-way road to Brexit. It was however, strong enough to force a serious debate on the pros and cons of leaving the EU and alternative trading arrangements.

The majority of the debate has taken place and the Brexit alternatives currently on the table put the UK in a worse position than the status-quo.

The debate needs to be completed and alternative arrangements need to be voted on. If these alternatives are voted down, (ie May's deal and no-deal) then alternative solutions need to be discussed and these should include the alternative to stay in the EU.

Everything else is just an amusement until the debate is finished and the solutions voted upon.

Business, the majority of the Commons and the majority of the Lords are not in favour of Brexit, in any of its guises. Their dilemma is how to explain reality to the electorate without being seen to be complete idiots. It isn't going to be easy with the majority of the press gunning for leave so I guess this is who they need to convince first.

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You forgot to remind us that the unected commission lso has a say.

oh great :)

Brexit: US ambassador to UK Johnson warns on trade deal
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46720323

Donald Trump's offer of a "quick, massive bilateral trade deal" won't be possible if Theresa May's Brexit deal is backed by Parliament, the US ambassador to the UK has warned.

Woody Johnson told Radio 4's Today programme such a arrangement could lead to an "exciting future" for the UK.

But that's only if Mrs May's withdrawal agreement does not succeed, he said.

President Trump had previously described her offer as a "great deal for the EU".

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Originally Posted by buriramboy

Because another referendum is pointless, it was a once in a generation vote not a best of 3 or 5. If the result of the last referendum is not going to be honoured then why should people have any confidence in the results of any future referendums being honoured. Doris deal isn't Brexit, it's the worst of all worlds.

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sounds like you are afraid to face a new vote, and don't accept people might have second thoughts in a decision that is going to affect their personal life for decades

the least you can do politically is cover your base and make sure you have the mandate of the people, because that vote might not be as clear now as it was before with all the lies and deceptive manipulation by the Pro-Brexit groups

granted, the ref2 results might bring more confusion and questions if the results are not the same, but that's part of the democratic process, the anwser is never black or white, and need time for national debate and collective thinking

only authoritarians want an easy and swift anwser like hard Brexit or no Brexit, but the truth is it's not going to happen either way, it just can't

No Brexit or REMAIN will make you the bitch of Juncker (which you are already) but this time it will be official for all to see,

so grow a pair, and swallow that Maybot deal and start that long exit process that might take maybe another 20 years

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Originally Posted by Switch

You forgot to remind us that the unected commission lso has a say.

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I don't agree that the EU commission is not elected or accountable. The UK media don't follow the EU elections in the same way the rest of Europe does. The commissioner is not directly elected by the people but is still elected. Nothing can be proposed by the commission without the authority of all governments. It is just a different system but being different doesn't make it wrong.

How's that trade deal with the US coming along?

The referendum was not legally binding. Check!
The 2015 European Referendum Act doesn't stipulate any limit on referendums. Check!
Brexiteers don't want any more democracy because they have the answer they want. Check!
Brexiteers don't want any more democracy because they know the will of the people has changed. Check!
No one wants the Maybot deal, which is the only deal on the table. Check!
Migrants will still continue to pour across the channel regardless. Check!
The pound will dive further. Check!
Immigration levels post-brexit will continue to rise. Check!
Immigration levels from outside the EU post-brexit will go through the roof. Check!
The new magical unicorn trade deals the UK will secure post-brexit are non-existent. Check!
The idea that the UK can be converted into the Singapore of the North post-brexit is bollocks. Check!

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Originally Posted by Troy

I don't agree that the EU commission is not elected or accountable. The UK media don't follow the EU elections in the same way the rest of Europe does. The commissioner is not directly elected by the people but is still elected. Nothing can be proposed by the commission without the authority of all governments. It is just a different system but being different doesn't make it wrong.

How's that trade deal with the US coming along?

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Commissioners are appointed. They inform the elected MEPs what to vote on. If they don’t get the right answer, they send it back until they do. Some fucking democracy that is.

Being in the Common market never really bothered me. It was a benign but serviceable entity that really bothered no one, curly bananas and ditching imperial measures were just amusing hiccups.
Now the scope and breadth of that original compact has been publicly extended to federalisation, it’s not amusing at all.

You seem to think that this is a good thing and you hope it goes further.

I read the warning signs differently. The EU wants control over everything. I don’t trust them as far as I could throw a jumbo jet., but you’re happy with it? You are naive and you don’t even understand how the thing works ffs!!!

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Originally Posted by Dragonfly

NATO needs to go, the EU Army is all about taking control of our own defense strategy

as a Brexiter, I would think you could get it, but apparently you are too mentally compartimentalized to realize that simple need,

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But, but one of your main cheerleaders (Clegg) called talk of an EU army a 'dangerous fantasy'; was he lying? Good tactic, first deny it, and when denial is pointless because people might notice a whole new army where there wasn't one before, justify it as necessary to defend against Russia and China; and the US! :rofl:

Imho they better hurry, build the army and scrap NATO, 5-10 years and counting before it is deployed on European streets to defend the ideological dysfunctionals that dropped a shitbomb on the continent. So look after yourself, eat well, exercise, stay away from roads, sharp objects and skanks, I wouldn't want you to miss that.

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Originally Posted by jabir

Interesting...who told you Germany is not the driving force behind the EU? Or do you mean Frau does dictate but not so forcefully as before?

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If Germany dictated ECB monetary policy then interest rates would have risen. They've been crying out for it for a couple of years already.

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Originally Posted by Dragonfly

NATO needs to go, the EU Army is all about taking control of our own defense strategy

as a Brexiter, I would think you could get it, but apparently you are too mentally compartimentalized to realize that simple need,

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Heyo, which language would it use? Surely not English, seeing as the only English speaking country that can pack a punch is adiós...German? :rofl: French? :rofl: Belgian? Sorry almost forgot you don't have a language.:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Dragonfly

sounds like you are afraid to face a new vote, and don't accept people might have second thoughts in a decision that is going to affect their personal life for decades

the least you can do politically is cover your base and make sure you have the mandate of the people, because that vote might not be as clear now as it was before with all the lies and deceptive manipulation by the Pro-Brexit groups

granted, the ref2 results might bring more confusion and questions if the results are not the same, but that's part of the democratic process, the anwser is never black or white, and need time for national debate and collective thinking

only authoritarians want an easy and swift anwser like hard Brexit or no Brexit, but the truth is it's not going to happen either way, it just can't

No Brexit or REMAIN will make you the bitch of Juncker (which you are already) but this time it will be official for all to see,

so grow a pair, and swallow that Maybot deal and start that long exit process that might take maybe another 20 years

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Bit of a turnaround even for you, why on earth would you want to risk us staying in? Collided with reality, have yer!

Sorry switch, I was referring to the commission presidency. Since commissioners are proposed by their own governments then you need to refer your concern to UK rather than EU

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Originally Posted by Troy

I don't agree that the EU commission is not elected or accountable. The UK media don't follow the EU elections in the same way the rest of Europe does. The commissioner is not directly elected by the people but is still elected. Nothing can be proposed by the commission without the authority of all governments. It is just a different system but being different doesn't make it wrong.

How's that trade deal with the US coming along?

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Blimey you do come up with some nice ones. You are right, Juncker et al were legally elected so we should really see off those idiots that say they are unelected.


























Ah, just one more thing...how many names were on the ballots for the top posts?

a 1
b 1
c 1

Answers on a postcard please, no need for an address just drop it in a bin.

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Originally Posted by Troy

If Germany dictated ECB monetary policy then interest rates would have risen. They've been crying out for it for a couple of years already.

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:smileylaughing::smileylaughing::smileylaughing::s mileylaughing::smileylaughing::smileylaughing:

Stop it...STOP IT!