Thread: Here are the Confederate memorials that will be removed after Charlottesville

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by Wilsonandson

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by Wilsonandson

Originally Posted by DrB0b

No, he didn't. Lincoln never owned slaves.

Abraham Lincoln speech.

"Speech to One Hundred Fortieth Indiana Regiment
March 17, 1865
[Autograph Draft]

FELLOW CITIZENS. A few words only. I was born in Kentucky, raised in Indiana, reside in Illinois, and now here, it is my duty to care equally for the good people of all the States. I am to-day glad of seeing it in the power of an Indianana regiment to present this captured flag to the good governor of their State. And yet I would not wish to compliment Indiana above other states, remembering that all have done so well. There are but few aspects of this great war on which I have not already expressed my views by speaking or writing. There is one---the recent effort of our erring bretheren, sometimes so-called, to employ the slaves in their armies. The great question with them has been; ``will the negro fight for them?'' They ought to know better than we; and, doubtless, do know better than we. I may incidentally remark, however, that having, in my life, heard many arguments,---or strings of words meant to pass for arguments,---intended to show that the negro ought to be a slave, that if he shall now really fight to keep himself a slave, it will be a far better argument why [he] should remain a slave than I have ever before heard. He, perhaps, ought to be a slave, if he desires it ardently enough to fight for it. Or, if one out of four will, for his own freedom, fight to keep the other three in slavery, he ought to be a slave for his selfish meanness. I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others.

I may incidentally remark, however, that having, in my life, heard many arguments,---or strings of words meant to pass for arguments,---intended to show that the negro ought to be a slave, that if he shall now really fight to keep himself a slave, it will be a far better argument why [he] should remain a slave than I have ever before heard. He, perhaps, ought to be a slave, if he desires it ardently enough to fight for it. Or, if one out of four will, for his own freedom, fight to keep the other three in slavery, he ought to be a slave for his selfish meanness. I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. Whenever [i] hear any one, arguing forslaveryI feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

There is one thing about the negroes fighting for the rebels which we can know as well [as] they can; and that is that they can not, at [the] same time fight in their armies, and stay at home and make bread for them. And this being known and remembered we can have but little concern whether they become soldiers or not. I am rather in favor of the measure; and would at any time if I could, have loaned them a vote to carry it. We have to reach the bottom of the insurgent resources; and that they employ, or seriously think of employing, the slaves as soldiers, gives us glimpses of the bottom. Therefore I am glad of what we learn on this subject." (Lincoln, 1953, vol 8, pp. 360-361)

Obviously, these are not the words of a slave-owner. There are, however, two members of Lincoln's close family that were slave owners. This first is Abraham Lincoln's great-uncle Isaac Lincoln. Isaac was the elder brother and inherited both land and slaves from his father (Abraham Lincoln's great-grandfather). He had 43 at the time of his death. The other close member of Lincoln's family to own slaves was his father-in-law.

This crops up from time to time in an attempt to discredit Lincoln (I won't conjecture as to why) and relies on two logical fallacies: the previously mentioned "tu quoque" (You too!)

References:
Lincoln, A. (1953). Collected works of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 1. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University Press.

Lincoln, A. (1953). Collected works of Abraham Lincoln Vol. 8. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University Press

WTF is wrong with you? I just told you Lincoln didn't own slaves and then you post this screed which also says he didn't own slaves. You then post a picture of all the slave owning presidents which also doesnt include Lincoln. Are you brain-damaged?

Say's the poster who has a psychodelic skull as his avatar

What? Did you even read what you posted here? It's an article about why people, like you, are wrong to claim Lincoln had slaves. Your own post clearly proves you are wrong. You idiot!

Lincoln NEVER owned slaves,

He abhored slavery but he did NOT want to end it until he had to.

He ended slavery only in states that were in "rebellion" minus MD and KY.

He repeatedly said he despised slavery but that ending it would be a mess.

The Emancipation Proclamation was a political and military move.

Really hard to get an opinion out of Seppos regards this Free speech gig.

I do get it that free speech should be Held up on a very high platform but by fuk it does cause untold trouble.

Time to knock it on the head Eh and at the same time kill all White Supremacist Retards.

Seppos surly do not need them.

That's unless you have been shagged by ya Daddy since the get go.

It's like you logged on to the forum a few days back, had an epiphany, realised that you couldn't get any attention for posting anything witty, insightful, pithy or profound, so decided to go to the other extreme and just be as big a cockhead as humanely possible.

You face some stiff competition for being a thick twat on this forum but you're making a decent start, I'll give you that.

Pass this big ass unit every time I fly home. Can be seen for miles on the interstate.

Confederate flag.
World's Largest Confederate Flag

Field review by the editors.

Brandon, Florida

The self-proclaimed World's Largest Confederate Battle Flag is the centerpiece of a Confederate veterans memorial, erected in 2008 by Marion Lambert as a spit-in-the-eye to county commissioners who refused to acknowledge a celebration of "Southern Heritage Month."

The giant flag is 50 ft. by 30 ft., on a pole tall enough that the provocative symbol can be seen miles away on the interstate and from surrounding communities. The Sons of Confederate Veterans insist it honors the courage of rebel soldiers who fought in the Civil War, but most others who see it have a different association....

Confederate flag.

We spotted big battle flag twice on different days, from I-75 and I-4. Venturing to its base, we half-expected some kind of private, walled compound, but it is in an accessible roadside spot with convenient parking spaces.

A sign identifies it as "General Jubal A. Early Camp 556." A small plaza is centered around a granite monument in front of the flag pole. It reads, in part, that the site is dedicated to the Confederate forces who "fought, bled and died in defense of their homeland against ruthless invasion and who strove to protect America's birthright of Constitutional liberty & freedom dating from 1776."

The Sons of Confederate Veterans have plans to place another four giant Confederate flags around the state for their "Flags Across Florida" initiative.

World's Largest Confederate Flag, Brandon, Florida

If it hurts your feelings real bad, you can sign the petition to remove it here, but good luck with that - its on private property.

https://www.change.org/p/remove-the-...n-tampa-on-i75

Some will be happy to know this nazi ( ) flag was vandalized 2 days ago.

TAMPA — The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office is investigating after granite monuments at the site of the massive Confederate flag that flies over Interstate 75 were vandalized over the weekend.

Deputies responding about 11 a.m. Sunday to a vandalism call at Confederate Memorial Park, 10418 Highway 92 East, discovered red paint had been thrown on all of the granite memorial pillars, said Debbie Carter, a spokeswoman for the Sheriff's Office. There were also derogatory comments written in paint on the memorial.

A passerby saw the grafitti and called 911, Carter said.

The park is on private property donated by a member of the Sons of the Confederate Veterans, which raised about $150,000 to erect the memorial as "a tribute to the men who answered the call of duty in defense of our Southland," according to a marker. The granite pillars at the park built by the Sons of the Confederate Veterans detail episodes and figures from the Confederacy.

Volunteers were able to remove the paint Sunday using pressure washers, said David McCallister, commander of the Sons of Confederate Veterans' Judah P. Benjamin Camp, who was among those who helped with the cleanup.

One of the defaced monuments includes the names of two of McCallister's ancestors, Hugh McCallister and William T. McCallister.

"It really made me heartsick to see red paint dripping like blood down on my ancestor's name on a monument meant to honor him as a Floridian and patriot," McCallister said.

McCallister said the word "antifa" had been scrawled on the plaza's concrete. "AntiFa" is a sometimes violent anti-fascist movement that has been active since President Donald Trump's election.

The park has been a lightning rod of criticism because of its most prominent feature: a 139-foot flag pole and Confederate battle flag that measures 30 feet high and 60 feet long. The flag was raised first in 2008 to mark the 200th anniversary of the birth of Jefferson Davis, the only president of the Confederate States of America. Since its dedication in 2009, it has flown almost full time.

The vandalism comes during a bitterly contentious debate over Confederate monuments on public property. The Hillsborough County Commission voted this month to relocate a Confederate statue titled "Memoria In Aeterna" that sits in front of the County Courthouse annex property in Tampa.

Over the weekend, violent clashes erupted at the University of Virginia in Charlottesveille between white supremacists protesting the removal of a statute of General Robert E. Lee and counterprotestors. One woman was killed and 19 more were injured Saturday when an Ohio man drove his car into a crowd of counterprotestors.

On Sunday night, scores of people gathered at Joe Chillura Courthouse Square Tampa for a candlelight vigil to honor those killed and injured in the Virginia city. Several demonstrators then climbed atop the "Memoria In Aeterna" and left protest signs with slogans such as "I Will Build Statues of Love" and "White Supremacy is Terrorism."

McCallister said the Sons of Confederate Veterans had nothing to do with the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville.

"Robert E. Lee would not have approved of what went on in Charlottesville," he said.

Anyone with any information about the vandalism is asked to call the Sheriff's Office at (813) 247-8200 or Crime Stoppers at (800) 873-8477. To report anonymously, go to crimestopperstb.com or send a tip using the P3 Tips mobile application.

Deputies investigating vandalism at Confederate Memorial Park in Tampa | Tampa Bay Times

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by jabir

Someone remind me, on which side of the slavery issue did the Democrats stand?

Sure.

Southern Democrats were for slavery. Northern Democrats against. The party split over the issue the year before the Civil War started. Once the war started all political parties were outlawed in the South (often forgotten) and the Northern Democarates split into the pro-war War Democrats and the anti-war Copperheads. After the Civil war ended the Democratic Party as a whole became violently anti-Negro and that continued for decades. Finally, under FDR, the party started becoming more liberal until it became the centrist part we see today.

Does that answer your question or were you just trying to make some shallow point along the lines of "if they were nigger-haters in 1860 they must be nigger-hating hypocrites now"?

So the KKK, which attempted to overthrow the Rep state governments in the South for their resistance to hanging niggas, were Republican? Or did they morph from nigga hating Dems in those bad days to being equally bad Republican?

That could be facetious if you would like it to, but many items from the Dem and Rep platforms switched over the course of some 60 years in the late-19/early 20th c, with each side since and now trying to pin the bad stuff on the other. I don't suppose the angry masses might ever wish to scratch at the truth, since the media has already told them everything they need to know.

"All these folks worried about erasing history when the Confederate statues come down will be thrilled to learn about the existence of books."

- Jamil Smith‏

Originally Posted by Wilsonandson

I think modern history says paid workers built these.

Originally Posted by jabir

So the KKK, which attempted to overthrow the Rep state governments in the South for their resistance to hanging niggas

The KKK did not exist until after the Civil war you idiot. So many idiots on this thread who are clueless about the history of the US.

Originally Posted by Wilsonandson

We all know it was the "" JEWS " who built it, bible and Hollywood blockbuster
movie " The Ten Commandments " show this accurately .
Moses saved the Jews from Arab slavery, Charlton Hestin the American freed the Jewish slaves from the evil ragheads.
Hollywood says it, it's true.

Egypt should pay Isreal reparations for the Jews building the pyramids.
Just like innocent Germans pay billions annually today to Israel for the slavic labour used in the construction of German autobahns , useing Jewish forman overseeing Slavic slaves .

Jaysus you post some utter shit!

This thread's about Confederate statutes etc. and US race relations, not your anti-Semitic dribble.

I think Jim encapsulates it nicely.
The left testicle bit in particular.

Originally Posted by terry57

I do get it that free speech should be Held up on a very high platform but by fuk it does cause untold trouble.

I believe at Speaker's Corner one has to stand on a box or something similar to be immune from prosecution for slander. So yes a platform but not that high.

Could be a myth but...

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

This is pretty dang obvious seeing how most people are slaves to government/banking/insurance/medical/pharma cartels and the 1%ers who own them.
If anything the enslavement is much worse today because people have been absolutely brainwashed and dumbed down by media and television, they cannot see the forrest no more. Just a sea of disgarded plastic junk, petrol fumes and false promises of material bliss.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

So the Southern crackers are just going to be defeated again and again? I'm cool with that.

Confederate plaque tarred and feathered in Arizona



An Arizona monument to Confederate leader Jefferson Davis was vandalized with tar and feathers Thursday, according to local news reports.

A Fox affiliate first reported that the monument, which is a small stone plaque bearing the name of the Confederate president, was vandalized early Thursday with tar and feathers. No protests were reported around the monument, which sits in Gold Canyon, Arizona just off a major highway.

more Confederate plaque tarred and feathered in Arizona | TheHill


It seemed odd to me there would be a memorial to Confederate soldiers in Arizona, since Arizona wouldn't have even been a state during the Civil War. Turns out there were battles fought there between Confederate and Union soldiers from California. I may have never known, had it not been for this appearing in the news now.

The removal of statues started a long time ago with the collapse of the Soviet USSR and it's been well documented .
They even have Momenta Parks of art for removed statues.

Applying that quote in this instance is beyond absurd. Most of these status were erected long after the civil war ended and during the time of Jim Crow laws. They were erected to intimidate.

History would be better served by putting them in a museum so context can be given as to their existence. After all these men were not heroes they were traitors to the US government who wanted to keep slaves.

Honoring them with statues is a national disgrace.

Originally Posted by bsnub

History would be better served by putting them in a museum

Or a cemetery.

Just seems strange that the oh so pc Left didn't destroy confederate statues with impunity during 8 years of Obama.

Dumbed down masses will buy anything, but it's not about slavery it's about being stuck in meltdown over a lost election 9 months ago!

Originally Posted by SKkin

Yep, removing these memorials is no different than book burning. Dead liberals on the other hand make the World a better place.

1984 was written as a warning, but the oh so pc halo polishers have turned it into a manual...and as ever the dummies grab hold of the tail in front.

Originally Posted by BobR

Yep, removing these memorials is no different than book burning. Dead liberals on the other hand make the World a better place.

...you're the "nigger" hating ex-cop, right?

Or do I have you confused with another of TDs morons/racists/bigots.