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  1. #226
    ENT
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    Queers getting married in church or otherwise is just an approval seeking piece of bunkum because they fear social disapproval and eternal damnation for their sins.

    One thing they're not, is liberated or free in any realistic sense of the word, addicted as they are to sex.

  2. #227
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    how's the air up there on your throne?

  3. #228
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    Can't understand what the Church are doing: As the last generation of terrified coffin dodgers dwindles away, they're going to be left with only weddings and funerals as their business model.

    If I were them, I'd be doing everything I can to get the old pooves involved, after all they're a quite wealthy demographic and they might brighten the dull Sundays up with showtunes and shit.

  4. #229
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    they're a quite wealthy demographic and they might brighten the dull Sundays up with showtunes and shit.
    ...and papal drag! Bejeweled crosses! Easter hat parades before the altar! And let's update those tunes while we're at it:

  5. #230
    ENT
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    Quote Originally Posted by stfranalum View Post
    how's the air up there on your throne?
    Lovely.

  6. #231
    ENT
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Can't understand what the Church are doing: As the last generation of terrified coffin dodgers dwindles away, they're going to be left with only weddings and funerals as their business model.

    If I were them, I'd be doing everything I can to get the old pooves involved, after all they're a quite wealthy demographic and they might brighten the dull Sundays up with showtunes and shit.


    There ya go harry, there's an opportunity waiting for ya, you're heading that age group.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Can't understand what the Church are doing: As the last generation of terrified coffin dodgers dwindles away, they're going to be left with only weddings and funerals as their business model.

    If I were them, I'd be doing everything I can to get the old pooves involved, after all they're a quite wealthy demographic and they might brighten the dull Sundays up with showtunes and shit.


    There ya go harry, there's an opportunity waiting for ya, you're heading that age group.
    It appears I got an old poof involved.

    Upped your meds yet ENT?

  8. #233
    ENT
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Can't understand what the Church are doing: As the last generation of terrified coffin dodgers dwindles away, they're going to be left with only weddings and funerals as their business model.

    If I were them, I'd be doing everything I can to get the old pooves involved, after all they're a quite wealthy demographic and they might brighten the dull Sundays up with showtunes and shit.


    There ya go harry, there's an opportunity waiting for ya, you're heading that age group.
    It appears I got an old poof involved.
    Sorry Warren, I'm not gay and far too old for your predilections.

    You can still dream about it though, showtunes and shit and stuff,,,,
    “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? John 10:34.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    Can't understand what the Church are doing: As the last generation of terrified coffin dodgers dwindles away, they're going to be left with only weddings and funerals as their business model.
    The church does have more of a reputation for adapting to the times than most people give it credit for. I guess it could not have survived so long otherwise. You can see God evolving morally during the course of the bible. He starts off as a cantankerous, jealous, violent and capricous fellow and morphs like a butterfly in the second testament into the god of brotherly and even inter-ethnic love. Even the message that is preached from the pulpit in the last century has changed mercurially to try and fit around changing social values.

    Harry could be onto a blinder of a good tactic with this idea of the church evolving to embrace gaydom.

    If it was played just right it would actually be an opportunity to outflank the gay political lobby...

    ...The church could offer to solemnise gay unions but with a ceremony that is not the same as marriage, in order to set some reasonable boundaries around cultural tradition....

    ...Gays get there unions recognised and everyone else gets to keep their cultural traditions intact.


  10. #235
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    Who honestly gives a flying fuck what the jesus wheezers think?

    Why anyone wants to bother with them, I don't know.

    I expect for people like ENT, attention seeker that he is, it would be the chance to wear the big gay dress and possibly attract the attentions of the likes of Buttplug.

  11. #236
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    outflank the gay political lobby
    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    set some reasonable boundaries around cultural tradition....
    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    everyone else gets to keep their cultural traditions intact
    ...also known as circling the wagons to keep out The Other...
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
    Who honestly gives a flying fuck what the jesus wheezers think?
    indeed...they failed at the only job their god gave them: "suppress those who don't look, act and think exactly like us"...it's difficult to discern which of the abrahamic religions is the silliest...or the most dangerous...
    Majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd

  12. #237
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    billions spent on cancer
    nothing spent on homosexuality
    gays are taxpayers too

  13. #238
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    ^ But homosexuality is no longer considered a "disease".
    You can be just as fruity as ya wanna be, and some wanna be fruitier than others.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    indeed...they failed at the only job their god gave them: "suppress those who don't look, act and think exactly like us"...it's difficult to discern which of the abrahamic religions is the silliest...or the most dangerous...
    It's easy to see that you've read none of their doctrines nor do you know sod all about any of them.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat
    to keep out The Other...
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat
    suppress those who don't look, act and think exactly like us
    Being offered ceremonial and legal avenues to pursue officially and socially recognised gay pair bonding is not 'being kept out' or 'suppressed'.

    It is being invited in and accepted and having your lifestyle recognised as valid.

    It is not unreasonable to want the idea of marriage to be used for what it has always been used for since prehistoric times while offering gays similar options for their pair-bonding needs.

  16. #241
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ^no need to revisit this discussion: I think you're misguided and mildly condescending and you think I'm wrong...let's move on to slaves and chat about how we might invite those folks in and accept their wretched lifestyles as valid...after all, slavery as an institution has been around since prehistoric times and many might welcome the opportunity to become, with extensive training, house negroes...

  17. #242
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    It is not unreasonable to want the idea of marriage to be used for what it has always been used for since prehistoric times
    Did you get married? Kids? Still breaking those all important cultural traditions, looper?

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ^no need to revisit this discussion: I think you're misguided and mildly condescending and you think I'm wrong...let's move on to slaves and chat about how we might invite those folks in and accept their wretched lifestyles as valid...after all, slavery as an institution has been around since prehistoric times and many might welcome the opportunity to become, with extensive training, house negroes...
    OK, fair enough, we do not need to revisit that discussion as we both know where we stand.

    But while I am here I will just take the opportunity to raise a few points with your 'slavery as tradition' comparison.

    Tradition is just one factor to consider when weighing the pros and cons of changing or maintaining some social or cultural institution as society grows and matures morally. There are many other factors to consider such as the far more important utilitarian moral calculus of maximising the happiness of the greatest number of people. Slavery clearly caused an enormous amount of cruelty and suffering for an enormous amount of people. Treating humans as property also conflicted entirely with the basic egalitarian moral ideal that all men should be treated equally and fairly before the law. These factors far outweigh the nominal value of maintaining slavery based on its status as a cultural tradition (even though it took centuries of argument and even war for this idea to become clear to everyone).

    The same is not true for gay marriage. The alternative that is being offered to the gay community (similar legal and social structures to achieve similar outcomes to marriage) is not 'inflicting enormous suffering on an enormous number of people' like slavery was.

    It really is an insult and an affront to the memory of the millions of people who endured terrible lives of slavery throughout history and who fought for its abolition to compare your situation to theirs.

    Even ignoring the stark difference in the utilitarian moral calculus, marriage is an infinitely more valuable cultural tradition than the right to own another human being so the cultural value comparison does not stack up on its own either.

    The alternative pair bonding rites and legal structures being offered to gays is a reasonable and fair compromise which balances the pair bonding needs of the gay community with the enormous cultural value which society places on the traditional definition of marriage.

    Society should and is trying to find a solution for recognising gay committed relationships that is fair to gay people but life is not fairytale perfect. It does involve compromise sometimes.

  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    It is not unreasonable to want the idea of marriage to be used for what it has always been used for since prehistoric times
    Did you get married? Kids? Still breaking those all important cultural traditions, looper?
    Sorry Misskit, I have to report that I am as yet unmarried and without issue.



    But you will be the first to know as soon as this situation changes

  20. #245
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    Tradition is just one factor to consider when weighing the pros and cons of changing or maintaining some social or cultural institution as society grows and matures morally
    sorry, I don't speak weasel...
    Quote Originally Posted by Looper
    Society should and is trying to find a solution for recognising gay committed relationships that is fair to gay people but life is not fairytale perfect.
    Perfect is not the standard...merely allowing gay folks the same legal rights granted to others is the goal...it really is that simple...and all your meandering about pair-bonding utilitarianism and valuable traditional hoo-hah is just smokescreen for denying rights to despised minorities in society...repeating yourself doesn't make your arguments more persuasive, only more attractive to the thread's trolls...

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat
    merely allowing gay folks the same legal rights granted to others is the goal
    Everyone would have the same rights.

    You would have the right to marry a woman if you so chose and I would have the right to get hitched to a strapping sailor in a legal gay union if I ever felt the urge.

  22. #247
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    My suggestion: the ceremony for all folks to be wed is called "marriage" and we leave it at that...eventually, the folks who object will go the way of slaveowners, devout Christians, closeted haters, etc. and "marriage" will evolve into a cultural institution open to and respected by all...

  23. #248
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    My suggestion is that marriage is the joining together of a man and a woman. It is the very specific and important cultural referent belonging to the word 'marriage'.

    Times have moved on at a fair lick recently for gay people and it is now recognised that being gay is not something to be persecuted or punished for.

    Gay people want to enter into unions and have them recognised legally and ceremonially which is perfectly understandable.

    This would be something similar to marriage and so, in the name of social progress, society should institute legal and social means similar to marriage to recognise these unions.

  24. #249
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ^so, you're moving to a different location on square one...

  25. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENT
    It's easy to see that you've read none of their doctrines nor do you know sod all about any of them.
    A compliment, I guess; Your double negative suggests you think he knows a lot about the doctrines.
    Good on you for complimenting someone that, because of your bigotry, you detest.
    Keep up the good work, and do try to get your grammar right.

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