Thread: Is it reasonable to expect the young to save for old age

Originally Posted by redhaze

Like for me I want to do things like play in a band

How old are you and what instrument do you play? Are you any good? Just recently learned that when openings occur in the Navy band auditions are held. And if selected basically they bring you in as an E-6 and can actually own that spot forever while competing for advancement upward. They give you E-6 pay, housing allowance in DC and various other allowances that can add up to prolly north of $50K a year from jump street. Check out the link:

Auditions

Same thing applies for the Naval Academy band:

https://www.usna.edu/USNABand/vacancies/

Grunts out in the fleet have to work their way up from E-1 like normal Sailors and move around every 3-4 years.

On a similar note, had I not been offered an apprenticeship when I was 17 my plan was to join the British army and get myself on the ski team. LOL.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Originally Posted by redhaze

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

That is because the government wants everyone to work until they die. If you drink the kool aid, that is exactly what most will do.

I'm not sure its just the government. I think most people just honestly don't consider the idea that you might not have to.

Take me for example. At 22 years old, my wife and I both set out on a career path to become tenured track professors here in the U.S. Three years into grad school, we both were working 70 hours a week on research that just really wasn't all that meaningful or fulfilling. And this would be the rest of our lives.

Feeling a little burned out, we decided to take a year off and travel. That was our first trip to Thailand.

That trip was life changing, not because of anything that really happened or in some "discover yourself" kind of B.S. way, but just because it raised this question: "What if"?

What if we didn't have to work for the rest of our lives? What if, instead, we could do what we actually wanted to do? We had just never just never even considered the idea before.

That's how ingrained the "work, live, retire, die (shortly thereafter)" mentality is. We never even considered it.

We never went back to our old jobs after that. They weren't fulfilling, and they never offered a path or future to early financial independence.

Its been just over ten years since we left. We are currently on track to retire before we hit forty years of age.

Retired to Thailand at the age of 45 and at the time really thought I was going to put down roots and live out my life chilling. Then after a year got into the TEFLing game. Better than getting a sunburn on the golf course and it was kinda sorta like subsidized volunteer work. Then right around two years into the TEFLing gig it just kinda seemed like if I was going to work then might as well actually get paid decent money. So made the decision to bail on Thailand. Guess the point is I kind of decided retirement was overrated. So many of my Navy buds are fully retired now hiking, fishing and camping ... I go to work log into Facebook and Teakdoor all day. Talk shite and post political memes. Every once in a while drag my fat azz on to the carrier or a visiting submarine and make Sailors do their fookin jobs. So really not sure I want to give this up any time soon for ... retirement. Invest? What for? Got out of stocks and mutual funds long ago when I realized my pension was more than most professionals recommended I need to save for retirement. All I do is just live within my means like somebody recommended above. Not sure what I will do ... maybe work another 3-7 years. Not planning to save much between now and then. Just be debt free.

Great points.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

How old are you and what instrument do you play? Are you any good?

Mid-thirties. Guitar. Decent but by no means a pro. I want to get better. Just one more thing I haven't had the time for. Yet...

Oh and I don't think the Navy would take kindly to my playing/writing style lol. I play mostly punk and heavy metal type stuff.

Last time I was in Chiang Mai there were some very cool punk bands playing around town in the bars there. That seemed fun, that's what I would like. A touring band would be nice. States or Europe or wherever, doesn't matter. Just a band that played bars and clubs and toured. Scrape together enough money to pay for gas to the next show. Not for the money, but for the love. Just another one of those pipe dreams that time and responsibility crushes...

Originally Posted by Cold Pizza

Great points.

Very short on helpful details.

Originally Posted by Immigrunt

should the average 30 year old say "I won't go on holiday and live it up, I'll pay the money into a private pension so I can afford to go on holiday when I'm 70"

you obviously don't have a high opinion of the average 30-year old's thought processes...at 30, I was paying into a private pension and going on holidays...the two aren't mutually exclusive...

^ You were not average, TC.

touche...

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Then after a year got into the TEFLing game. Better than getting a sunburn on the golf course and it was kinda sorta like subsidized volunteer work.

Where this breaks down for me is ... 50 hours a week is 50 hours a week. Alarm clocks, commuting, needing to arrive punctually, prepared and presentable, etc. It might be easy compared to a lot of jobs out there, you can in LOS be lazy and kind of bad at it and still likely stay employed, but its still work. There are still ridiculous meetings, office politics, etc.

Some men are so heavily institutionalized, they just can't slow down, is my view. I hope its not me some day. I don't think it will be. During my various periods of not working, the only thing that stressed me was the idea of taking down my savings. Not having so many demands on my time? I really didn't find it that hard to be leisurely.

I left home at 18 and joined the military in 1970. My Dad gave me 5 notes and told me to buy a flexible life insurance policy, and update it whenever I could. I had four policies by the time I was 21, and they were all updated to 'with profits' by about the age of 24. They provided collateral for my first house purchase. I kept up a regular investment plan until I was about 50, and then sold them for quite a lot of money - exchange rates & global finances happened to be in my favour. The equity companies involved went bust a few years later.

The money paid for my present home that has now doubled in value since I purchased it about 15 years ago. I shall downsize after I retire ... soon, maybe....

Acorns turn to oaks

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Originally Posted by Cold Pizza

Originally Posted by Immigrunt

With pressure mounting on health and social care provision for the elderly, should the average 30 year old say "I won't go on holiday and live it up, I'll pay the money into a private pension so I can afford to go on holiday when I'm 70"

Depends what percentage is saved.

In my country, with their student debt, cost of living, and little time off, many don't have a choice to save b/c they can't save that much if anything at all.

That is because the government wants everyone to work until they die. If you drink the kool aid, that is exactly what most will do. Make sure you do not listen to any financial advisers and just live within your means. Anyone can do anything if they set their mind to it.

Agreed, the biggest lever most people have is consumption/spending.

Many people bad mouth government, but when its time to retire -and they haven't saved- who do they turn to? The new norm is debtors are aided and savers/investors are punished.

Another factor is many investors sell when the market declines, then get back in when the market is reaching new highs. Buy hi, sell low won't build wealth.

Market corrections are where the real money is made.

Originally Posted by JayZee

I left home at 18 and joined the military in 1970. My Dad gave me 5 notes and told me to buy a flexible life insurance policy, and update it whenever I could. I had four policies by the time I was 21, and they were all updated to 'with profits' by about the age of 24. They provided collateral for my first house purchase. I kept up a regular investment plan until I was about 50, and then sold them for quite a lot of money - exchange rates & global finances happened to be in my favour. The equity companies involved went bust a few years later.

The money paid for my present home that has now doubled in value since I purchased it about 15 years ago. I shall downsize after I retire ... soon, maybe....

Acorns turn to oaks

Well done buddy. Saving/investing is basically gardening: plant the seeds (invest), then harvest the food (wealth.)

Originally Posted by Lancelot

Saving/investing is basically gardening: plant the seeds (invest), then harvest the food (wealth.)

...and, of course, avoiding the weevils...

Originally Posted by tomcat

Originally Posted by Lancelot

Saving/investing is basically gardening: plant the seeds (invest), then harvest the food (wealth.)

...and, of course, avoiding the weevils...

Both endeavors will result in a few crop failures/financial losses

The ground might be stony as well.

^
For sure. If one invested when I was in my 20s and 30s letting those investments ripen over the 1960s-1990s, maybe into the early 2000s, and then sold them off before the crash of the late 2000s, they should be ok. After 2009, it became more difficult to invest and many investment companies went down the tube. Along with these investment companies, the real estate market went bust and many of my friend's retirement plans were deminished. Most are still working.

I took a different tack after being wiped out by a greedy ex that made it impossible to save money and invest. Child support took a large part of my salary after we were divorced, so investment was impossible until my youngest son was 18. What I did was pay off all debt to zero and estimate what my Social Security payments would be. Since I was in upper management, I paid in the maximum every year so that I would receive the maximum payment once I retired. My plan was to retire in Mexico and have a palapa where I could put my 5th wheel trailer, my boat and diesel truck. I changed my plan about 2005 and decided to retire to Thailand. I liquidated most everything in the US and moved over here for good in 2013.

I have more than enough money to live on here and since I have no other income other than Social Security, it is tax free. I received another bonus a couple of years ago when I found out my then four year old son qualified for 50% of my benefit. I now receive 150% of the maximum Social Security allowable benefit which will continue until I am dust. It is plenty to live on here without having to work or worry about the stock market.

So there is more than one way to skin a cat.

aren't yer bored tho'?

Not really, no more than anyone else not having to work.

It seems to be a lot easier for people in America to start again, costs in the UK can be very constraining, with the trade-off of there being a lot more "help" available.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

So there is more than one way to skin a cat.

My generation probably shouldn't count on skinning that cat. Not that they shouldn't be able to, but SS will be probably be stolen from us at some point prior to punching out.

Originally Posted by redhaze

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

So there is more than one way to skin a cat.

My generation probably shouldn't count on skinning that cat. Not that they shouldn't be able to, but SS will be probably be stolen from us at some point prior to punching out.

Delaying SS eligibility for 2 years is in the Ways & Means
Committe right now.

Trump vowed to not cut it repeatedly during his campaign.

Rogue Repubs in Congress.

Originally Posted by redhaze

but SS will be probably be stolen from us at some point prior to punching out.

then punching out early is a good financial strategy...

i do suspect that 'the long haul' might not be all it's cracked up to be.

if you've ever seen a centurion genuinely having a good time then you're probably in jail.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

It seems to be a lot easier for people in America to start again, costs in the UK can be very constraining, with the trade-off of there being a lot more "help" available.

Quite possibly Nemo, and from what I know of the UK's state pensions and retirement funds, they are fairly small. You definitely would not be able to do what I have done without having and investment or two. My good friend is going to try and retire from the UK in less than two years and he is depending more on selling his house and family farm land than living on his retirement and pension.

Originally Posted by cyrille

i do suspect that 'the long haul' might not be all it's cracked up to be.

if you've ever seen a centurion genuinely having a good time then you're probably in jail.

Or even a septuagenarian. This needs to be built into the thinking.