Thread: The Kaaba....Makkah

I get a Saudi TV channel here and have observed thousands of people marching around this black box which is the "House of Allah"!

I can see why non-muslims are forbidden!

Non-Muslims are not permitted to enter Makkah. Road blocks are stationed along roads leading to the city, with officials conducting occasional random checks to confirm that intending visitors are legitimate pilgrims and in possession of the required documentation.

I just have to wonder about a faith that is exigent of the practice of mindlessly marching around a big black box!

What makes you assume they are "mindlessly" "marching"?
Exposing your ignorance and prejudice again?

It's not a big black box but a heap of bricks mortered together and is...'Holy'

It's certainly quite big, and very black.
Anyone know when it was built?

Originally Posted by stroller

What makes you assume they are "mindlessly" "marching"?
Exposing your ignorance and prejudice again?

If they were mindful of what they were doing they perhaps wouldn't be trampling each other as much!

There have been many incidents during the Hajj that have led to the loss of hundreds of lives. The worst of these incidents have usually occurred during the stoning of the jamarat. During the 2006 Hajj on January 12, 362 pilgrims died. Tramplings have also occurred at the stage known as the sa'i, when pilgrims walk between two hills. Most recently, in 2006, some 600 pilgrims died while performing the hajj.
The Saudi Government is often criticised for not being proactive in providing facilities and infrastructure for the annual pilgrimage, and many measures are put in place in response to annual catastrophes.

Any intelligent "mindful" person would refrain from such idiotic activities.
It's not a question of prejudice Herr Stroller. It's a question of intellectual credulity.
What we seem to have here is a religion which preys upon the imbecility of it's followers.

Originally Posted by sabang

It's certainly quite big, and very black.
Anyone know when it was built?

That's just a black drape over rough morter.
Believe it was constructed couple hundred years ago - not that old considering...

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Any intelligent "mindful" person would refrain from such idiotic activities. It's not a question of prejudice Herr Stroller. It's a question of intellectual credulity. What we seem to have here is a religion which preys upon the imbecility of it's followers.

But fundamentally it's no different from, oh say, eating the 'body' of Christ and drinking his 'blood', refusing organ and/or blood transplants, or seeing the image of Jesus in a potato chip though is it? None of those (and plenty more) could really be said to be steeped with "intellectual credulity"

So why don't you start a thread on the idiosyncratic, dogma of Christianity and the "imbecility of it's [sic] followers"? Actually Catholicism would be a good place to start... Or is this really a question of prejudice?

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

So why don't you start a thread on the idiosyncratic, dogma of Christianity and the "imbecility of it's [sic] followers"? Actually Catholicism would be a good place to start... Or is this really a question of prejudice?

That would require quite a high level of "intellectual credulity" which extents beyond Islam-bashing.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

But fundamentally it's no different from, oh say, eating the 'body' of Christ and drinking his 'blood', refusing organ and/or blood transplants, or seeing the image of Jesus in a potato chip though is it? None of those (and plenty more) could really be said to be steeped with "intellectual credulity"

So why don't you start a thread on the idiosyncratic, dogma of Christianity and the "imbecility of it's [sic] followers"? Actually Catholicism would be a good place to start... Or is this really a question of prejudice?

Perhaps you should re-read the OP. This is not a "comparative religions" thread.
Feel free to start a similar thread focused on Christianity. No one is stopping you AntyR!

What I find curious is how the Muslims try to forbid non Muslims from seeing this spectacle in person.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Perhaps you should re-read the OP. This is not a "comparative religions" thread.

And that's my point entirely, you've selectively focused on one religion, deemed it "idiotic" and its followers "imbeciles" yet totally ignore others. Strikes me as totally incongrous and, despite your claims to the contrary, indicates a prejudice. Or as stroller has put it "Islam-bashing".

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

What I find curious is how the Muslims try to forbid non Muslims from seeing this spectacle in person

Really? And yet you are seemingly perfectly at ease with the idea of a President that invokes the name of God: "I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord"; "I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it" uses terms like "good" and "evil" and also apparently devines his foreign policy on the basis of a text message from the heavens: "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East"

All that and you're curious as to why Muslims exclude non-Muslims from this particular spectacle!? I find that curious...

Back on topic. I understand tha the building houses a meteorite. The Saudis are the actually Scientologists.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Really? And yet you are seemingly perfectly at ease with the idea of a President that invokes the name of God: "I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord"; "I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it" uses terms like "good" and "evil" and also apparently devines his foreign policy on the basis of a text message from the heavens: "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East"

All that and you're curious as to why Muslims exclude non-Muslims from this particular spectacle!? I find that curious...

You betray your intellectual myopia through this pathetic attempt to hijack this thread for you Bush bashing agenda with unsubstantiated rhetoric.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

You betray your intellectual myopia through this pathetic attempt to hijack this thread for you Bush bashing agenda with unsubstantiated rhetoric

LOL, my intellectual myopia!? I'm not hijacking anything, merely pulling you up what is cearly a bit of Islam-bashing.

If you can't handle being taken to task on it, don't say it. Pretty simple concept really. Does you even less credit now to try and claim it's trolling or a "Bush bashing agenda". You might also want to go back to your Theasaurus and check the meaning/usage of "unsubstantiated rhetoric".

Originally Posted by Begbie

Back on topic. I understand tha the building houses a meteorite. The Saudis are the actually Scientologists.

I just googled it. The black rock is actually in the corner of the kaba, and is used by the faithful to count their number of circlings. It is said to be meteoric, but noone is really sure. Some of the pilgrims make a point of touching it, apparently in defiance of Islamic doctrine.
And the kaba has been rebuilt several times over the centuries.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Believe it was constructed couple hundred years ago - not that old considering...

This shows how well informed you are about Islam. The foundations were laid by Prophet Abraham and his son Ismail ..... so it is quite old.

Abraham the Jewish patriarch?

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

Abraham the Jewish patriarch?

Abraham who in the Jewish tradition is called Avraham Avinu or "Abraham, our Father".

I am sure the Jew members of TD would love to see the place, whose foundations stone was laid down by their Father, being bombed.

But that would have been centuries before Islam existed.

^ Do you know why Muslims celebrate Eid ul Azha?

Nope. Pray tell.

It's celebrated in the Memory of the Prophet Abraham.

It's ok to celebrate jews as long as they are dead.
A good jew is dead JOO!

^ Not surprised with your way of thinking.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

It's ok to celebrate jews as long as they are dead. A good jew is dead JOO!

I would say that you ought to be ashamed of yourself but I fear it would be redundant to do so. Actually, I expect you probably even think that's 'funny'.