Thread: West's Islamophobia only helping Isis

Originally Posted by Black Heart

You are a former convert to Islam, and then you left Islam and you are now an apostate.

You are wrong.

Again.

Originally Posted by BaitongBoy

A very good article, indeed...Trouble is, there is no solution offered...And mincing words will not help a thing...

So you find examining the complexities of a problem 'mincing', and merely acknowledging complexity without offering an answer 'helps' less than the 'answers' offered up daily on this forum?

Surely the answer implicitly offered up is to educate islamophobes and thereby stop helping ISIS.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

There is no such thing as an ideal world.

Well duh.

It wasn't meant to be taken literally Herman. That's pretty much the meaning of the phrase 'in an ideal world...'.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Black Heart

I'm waiting for these papers from academia, Ant.

Well good luck with that then.

I'm not playing your silly little disingenuous game, Barbara.

It's because you're wrong.

Just admit it.


Made a false statement. Own up to it and move on.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Made a false statement.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

There is no such things as "Islamaphobia."

It does not exist.

It's not in the DSM book and it's never been diagnosed


This term was created by Islamic advocacy groups in the west.

Finally, you got something right.

Stopped clocks and all that I suppose.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

"What's really hurting me, the name Islam is involved, and Muslim is involved and causing trouble and starting hate and violence. ... Islam is not a killer religion. ... Islam means peace, I couldn't just sit home and watch people label Muslims as the reason for this problem."

I wonder who wrote this?

I think some ignorant lying western politician or bureaucrat.


Muslim clerics and imams have repeatedly stated that islam is not a religion of peace.

CERTAIN ones have.

But you don't fucking know any, do you?

Having spent 30 years in the Middle East, I have met plenty, and they are significantly less stupid and judgmental than yourself, not to mention non-violent.

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

bending over backwards for Muslims in a country that pushes other religions to one side is wrong. But expected from an apologist such as the OP.

You expected something that I didn't actually say in the OP? That I have never actually said?

That's quite some trick. Perhaps you need glasses.

Listen AntRobertson,

the next attack is going to come from the religion of peace with no doubt. Its going to be an attack that is going to open the eyes of our so called goodwill people.
When women and children are laying in the streets coughing up blood because of a chemical bomb then "the times will be changing".
You think I'am fantasizing ?
I hope so !

When was the last time you saw anyone other than a muslim holding a head ?

Islam is a ticking time bomb ! Maybe it has not changed your life because you live in NZ, but here in Europe we are paying the prize.

Phobia = an irrational fear of a perceived threat from something.

Islamophobia = an irrational fear of a threat from Islam.

There's no irrational fear of Islam, it's quite rational, going by Islam's track record in history and exemplified by Muslims daily.

Originally Posted by chassamui

Every time a muslim dies on home soil, it creates a vacuum to be filled with more radical hatred.
Extrapolate that into the hundreds of thousands of innocents killed by the west and it is easy to see the results on a global basis.
Just carry on pouring more gasoline on the fire and watch it spread.

Strangely enough after 70 years the Germans and Japanese are not carrying out suicide bombings against America , England or Russia in the name of revenge for "hundreds of thousands of innocents killed by the west."

Really Chas..."hundreds of thousands" ...one hundred thousand = 100,000...
Ten hundred thousand = 1,000,000...(you get the point).


One can read any holy book of many religions and one can interpret the words strictly from a fundamentalist ideology. Then one can get themselves totally indoctrinated and fully immersed into believing those words (at the earliest age the better)...and then venture forth to carry out that belief system in the best way possible.

Like "brave" kamikaze pilots some youthful Muslims seem to be carrying on that "honour" quite splendidly (IMHO).

Originally Posted by cyrille

So you find examining the complexities of a problem 'mincing',

Maybe you're missing this point, cyrille...I was speaking about the other posters arguing, or mincing words, about the term Islamophobia...

Originally Posted by cyrille

Surely the answer implicitly offered up is to educate islamophobes and thereby stop helping ISIS.

Well, there ya go, mate...Knock yerself out...Problem solved...

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Listen AntRobertson,

the next attack is going to come from the religion of peace with no doubt. Its going to be an attack that is going to open the eyes of our so called goodwill people.
When women and children are laying in the streets coughing up blood because of a chemical bomb then "the times will be changing".
You think I'am fantasizing ?
I hope so !

When was the last time you saw anyone other than a muslim holding a head ?

Islam is a ticking time bomb ! Maybe it has not changed your life because you live in NZ, but here in Europe we are paying the prize.

Well for one I don't live in NZ and, secondly, I'm going to go out on a limb here but my guess is that you didn't actually read the article did you?

To really combat terror, end support for Saudi Arabia

The so-called war on terror is nearly 13 years old, but which rational human being will be cheering its success? We’ve had crackdowns on civil liberties across the world, tabloid-fanned generalisations about Muslims and, of course, military interventions whose consequences have ranged from the disastrous to the catastrophic. And where have we ended up? Wars that Britons believe have made them less safe; jihadists too extreme even for al-Qaida’s tastes running amok in Iraq and Syria; and nations like Libya succumbing to Islamist militias. There are failures, and then there are calamities.

But as the British government ramps up the terror alert to “severe” and yet more anti-terror legislation is proposed, some reflection after 13 years of disaster is surely needed. One element has been missing, and that is the west’s relationship with Middle Eastern dictatorships that have played a pernicious role in the rise of Islamist fundamentalist terrorism. And no wonder: the west is militarily, economically and diplomatically allied with these often brutal regimes, and our media all too often reflects the foreign policy objectives of our governments.

Take Qatar. There is evidence that, as the US magazine The Atlantic puts it, “Qatar’s military and economic largesse has made its way to Jabhat al-Nusra”, an al-Qaida group operating in Syria. Less than two weeks ago, Germany’s development minister, Gerd Mueller, was slapped down after pointing the finger at Qatar for funding Islamic State (Isis).

While there is no evidence to suggest Qatar’s regime is directly funding Isis, powerful private individuals within the state certainly are, and arms intended for other jihadi groups are likely to have fallen into their hands. According to a secret memo signed by Hillary Clinton, released by Wikileaks, Qatar has the worst record of counter-terrorism cooperation with the US.

And yet, where are the western demands for Qatar to stop funding international terrorism or being complicit in the rise of jihadi groups? Instead, Britain arms Qatar’s dictatorship, selling it millions of pounds worth of weaponry including “crowd-control ammunition” and missile parts. There are other reasons for Britain to keep stumm, too. Qatar owns lucrative chunks of Britain such as the Shard, a big portion of Sainsbury’s and a slice of the London Stock Exchange.

Then there’s Kuwait, slammed by Amnesty International for curtailing freedom of expression, beating and torturing demonstrators and discriminating against women. Hundreds of millions have been channelled by wealthy Kuwaitis to Syria, again ending up with groups like Jabhat al-Nusra.


Kuwait has refused to ban the Revival of Islamic Heritage Society, a supposed charity designated by the US Treasury as an al-Qaida bankroller. David Cohen, the US Treasury’s undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence, has even described Kuwait as the “epicentre of fundraising for terrorist groups in Syria”. As Kristian Coates Ulrichsen, an associate fellow at Chatham House, told me: “High profile Kuwaiti clerics were quite openly supporting groups like al-Nusra, using TV programmes in Kuwait to grandstand on it.” All of this is helped by lax laws on financing and money laundering, he says.

But don’t expect any concerted action from the British government. Kuwait is “an important British ally in the region”, as the British government officially puts it. Tony Blair has become the must-have accessory of every self-respecting dictator, ranging from Kazakhstan to Egypt; Kuwait was Tony Blair Associates’ first client in a deal worth £27m. Britain has approved hundreds of arms licences to Kuwait since 2003, recently including military software and anti-riot shields.


And then, of course, there is the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia. Much of the world was rightly repulsed when Isis beheaded the courageous journalist James Foley. Note, then, that Saudi Arabia has beheaded 22 people since 4 August. Among the “crimes” that are punished with beheading are sorcery and drug trafficking.

Around 2,000 people have been killed since 1985, their decapitated corpses often left in public squares as a warning. According to Amnesty International, the death penalty “is so far removed from any kind of legal parameters that it is almost hard to believe”, with the use of torture to extract confessions commonplace. Shia Muslims are discriminated against and women are deprived of basic rights, having to seek permission from a man before they can even travel or take up paid work.

Even talking about atheism has been made a terrorist offence and in 2012, 25-year-old Hamza Kashgari was jailed for 20 months for tweeting about the prophet Muhammad. Here are the fruits of the pact between an opulent monarchy and a fanatical clergy.

This human rights abusing regime is deeply complicit in the rise of Islamist extremism too. Following the Soviet invasion, the export of the fundamentalist Saudi interpretation of Islam – Wahhabism – fused with Afghan Pashtun tribal code and helped to form the Taliban. The Saudi monarchy would end up suffering from blowback as al-Qaida eventually turned against the kingdom.

Chatham House professor Paul Stevens says: “For a long time, there was an unwritten agreement … whereby al-Qaida’s presence was tolerated in Saudi Arabia, but don’t piss inside the tent, piss outside.” Coates Ulrichsen warns that Saudi policy on Syria could be “Afghanistan on steroids”, as elements of the regime have turned a blind eye to where funding for anti-Assad rebels ends up.

Although Saudi Arabia has given $100m (£60m) to the UN anti-terror programme and the country’s grand mufti has denounced Isis as “enemy number one”, radical Salafists across the Middle East receive ideological and material backing from within the kingdom. According to Clinton’s leaked memo, Saudi donors constituted “the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide”.

But again, don’t expect Britain to act. Our alliance with the regime dates back to 1915, and Saudi Arabia is the British arms industry’s biggest market, receiving £1.6bn of military exports. There are now more than 200 joint ventures between UK and Saudi companies worth $17.5bn.

So much rhetoric about terrorism; so many calls to act. Yet Britain’s foreign policy demonstrates how empty such words are. Our allies are up to their necks in complicity with terrorism, but as long as there is money to be made and weapons to sell, our rulers’ lips will remain stubbornly sealed.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...fundamentalism

Originally Posted by PeeCoffee

Strangely enough after 70 years the Germans and Japanese are not carrying out suicide bombings against America , England or Russia in the name of revenge for "hundreds of thousands of innocents killed by the west."

Not that strange at all. It has been - as you've noted yourself - a good 70 years since they did have bombs dropped on them.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

CERTAIN ones have.

But you don't fucking know any, do you?

Having spent 30 years in the Middle East, I have met plenty, and they are significantly less stupid and judgmental than yourself, not to mention non-violent.

Well, they are doing a great job of fooling me with the non-violent part.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Having spent 30 years in the Middle East, I have met plenty, and they are significantly less stupid and judgmental than yourself, not to mention non-violent.

In your elite enclave /compound under government protection.

Three Israelis wiped out in Istanbul bomb, that's terrible, RIP
RIP
RIP
RIP
Why does God not protect his chosen people.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

When women and children are laying in the streets coughing up blood because of a chemical bomb then "the times will be changing".

Not sure if the west has used chemical weapons in muslim countries yet. Russia, possibly?

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Well for one I don't live in NZ and, secondly, I'm going to go out on a limb here but my guess is that you didn't actually read the article did you?

You mean for example this imbicile part:

The process of radicalisation is easily understood if we imagine how we would respond to a foreign government dropping 22,000 bombs on us.

The muslim scum terrorist (Brussels bombing) was born in Belgium and even enjoyed a good education. But he had to answer "the Call" of radicals because 22,000 bombs are being dropped in Syria. Even though the scum's heritage lies in North Africa.

Great article

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

CERTAIN ones have.

But you don't fucking know any, do you?

Having spent 30 years in the Middle East, I have met plenty, and they are significantly less stupid and judgmental than yourself, not to mention non-violent.

Well, they are doing a great job of fooling me with the non-violent part.

Since I was talking about the Imams and clerics that I've met over the years, perhaps you could tell me to whom you are referring when you say "they".

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

bending over backwards for Muslims in a country that pushes other religions to one side is wrong. But expected from an apologist such as the OP.

You expected something that I didn't actually say in the OP? That I have never actually said?

That's quite some trick. Perhaps you need glasses.

Another of your non-answers.

Originally Posted by wasabi

Three Israelis wiped out in Istanbul bomb, that's terrible, RIP
RIP
RIP
RIP
Why does God not protect his chosen people.

Mossad is working on it

Originally Posted by PeeCoffee

Really Chas..."hundreds of thousands" ...one hundred thousand = 100,000... Ten hundred thousand = 1,000,000...(you get the point).

How long do you think the ME conflict has been going on? How many innocent lives have been taken in the name of the war on terror or regime change, or WMD? Hundreds of thousands.
I am not debating the morality of Islam here, or the existence of ISIS. I am pointing at the process of radicalisation of family members of the dead. Who do you think is the motivating factor for terrorism?

Saudi Arabia.