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Self-appointed wanna-be policemen, supported by the largest budget on military and WMDs in history. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ceburat
Your macho redneck gym-trained neighbour with a big stick.
What can be done about it? - play cops and robbers, robbers taking out the bully cops one at a time.
Wanna play, Ceburat??? There's 1.3 billion little robber ragheads out there to shove that silly cop-costume up your where-the-sun-don't-shine.
Good luck.
what a completely ridiculous statement to make....how is life up there in cloud cuckoo land?Quote:
Originally Posted by ceburat
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2007/07/176.jpg
The My Lai Massacre (pronunciation (help·info), approximately mee-leye) (Vietnamese: thảm sát Mỹ Lai) was the massacre of hundreds of unarmed Vietnamese civilians, mostly women and children, by U.S. soldiers on March 16, 1968, in the hamlet of My Lai, during the Vietnam War.
The incident prompted widespread outrage around the world and reduced American support at home for the war in Vietnam. The massacre is also known as the Son My Massacre (Vietnamese: thảm sát Sơn Mỹ) or sometimes as the Song My Massacre.[1]
My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and....
Civilian Killings Went Unpunished
Declassified papers show U.S. atrocities went far beyond My Lai.
By Nick Turse and Deborah Nelson, Special to The Times
August 6, 2006
Photo Gallery
Vietnam: War Crimes
Related Stories
- Verified Civilian Slayings
- About this report
The men of B Company were in a dangerous state of mind. They had lost five men in a firefight the day before. The morning of Feb. 8, 1968, brought unwelcome orders to resume their sweep of the countryside, a green patchwork of rice paddies along Vietnam's central coast.
They met no resistance as they entered a nondescript settlement in Quang Nam province. So Jamie Henry, a 20-year-old medic, set his rifle down in a hut, unfastened his bandoliers and lighted a cigarette.
Just then, the voice of a lieutenant crackled across the radio. He reported that he had rounded up 19 civilians, and wanted to know what to do with them. Henry later recalled the company commander's response:
Kill anything that moves.
Henry stepped outside the hut and saw a small crowd of women and children. Then the shooting began.
Moments later, the 19 villagers lay dead or dying.
Back home in California, Henry published an account of the slaughter and held a news conference to air his allegations. Yet he and other Vietnam veterans who spoke out about war crimes were branded traitors and fabricators. No one was ever prosecuted for the massacre.
Now, nearly 40 years later, declassified Army files show that Henry was telling the truth — about the Feb. 8 killings and a series of other atrocities by the men of B Company.
The files are part of a once-secret archive, assembled by a Pentagon task force in the early 1970s, that shows that confirmed atrocities by U.S. forces in Vietnam were more extensive than was previously known.
The documents detail 320 alleged incidents that were substantiated by Army investigators — not including the most notorious U.S. atrocity, the 1968 My Lai massacre.
Though not a complete accounting of Vietnam war crimes, the archive is the largest such collection to surface to date. About 9,000 pages, it includes investigative files, sworn statements by witnesses and status reports for top military brass.
The records describe recurrent attacks on ordinary Vietnamese — families in their homes, farmers in rice paddies, teenagers out fishing. Hundreds of soldiers, in interviews with investigators and letters to commanders, described a violent minority who murdered, raped and tortured with impunity.
Abuses were not confined to a few rogue units, a Times review of the files found. They were uncovered in every Army division that operated in Vietnam.
Retired Brig. Gen. John H. Johns, a Vietnam veteran who served on the task force, says he once supported keeping the records secret but now believes they deserve wide attention in light of alleged attacks on civilians and abuse of prisoners in Iraq.
"We can't change current practices unless we acknowledge the past," says Johns, 78.
Among the substantiated cases in the archive:
• Seven massacres from 1967 through 1971 in which at least 137 civilians died.
• Seventy-eight other attacks on noncombatants in which at least 57 were killed, 56 wounded and 15 sexually assaulted.
• One hundred forty-one instances in which U.S. soldiers tortured civilian detainees or prisoners of war with fists, sticks, bats, water or electric shock.
Investigators determined that evidence against 203 soldiers accused of harming Vietnamese civilians or prisoners was strong enough to warrant formal charges. These "founded" cases were referred to the soldiers' superiors for action.
Civilian Killings Went Unpunished - Los Angeles Times
Read the post above me, it might give you some info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceburat
That's why I have tens of American friends? Perhaps I want to behead them and post their video here on TD eh?Quote:
You lie when you say you have nothing against America and when you say you do not dislike Americans.
Yes, there is a big difference. American gov't pokes its nose in others business without consulting general public so there has to be a difference? Why majority of Americans are against Bush's policy if they are the same?Quote:
Do you really think there is a difference between the U.S. Government and the people.
Americans voted for them that's how the gov't came to be! But the gov't always take swings and go against the will of its supporters (general public) and fuck things up. That's why the public is against Bush and his administration. NO?Quote:
How in the hell do you think the government came to be?
Really? Who authorised them to do policing? Do you actually know why the American troops are in Afghanistan/Iraq?Quote:
Americans are the policemen of the world, like it or not.
Laugh of the week! This is one of the examples:Quote:
Americans have never killed innocent people on purpose.
All this nutter and his fellow brave soldiers did is to rape a 14 years old girl, kill her 6 years old sibling and parents and attempt to burn the bodies .....Quote:
Guilty plea in Iraq rape, murder case
A U.S. Army soldier pleaded guilty this morning and agreed to testify against three colleagues charged in the rape of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and killing of her family, the Associated Press reports.
Spc. James P. Barker agreed to the plea in exchange for a lighter sentence, his attorney said. Prosecutors are pursuing the death penalty against two others in the case.
For background on the case, see this earlier story.
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Comments: (55) Showing: Newest first Oldest first
She wasn't an innocent girl anyway. Not a big deal. A small crime ...... shit happens in life ..... collateral damage ..... and the towel heads are all terrorists anyway.
LOL! Now I have to ask for a poll, to find out, which one is "laugh of the week".Quote:
In answer to your question. There is no interferring so NOTHING.
So that puts all the beheading of American civilians and above all the 9/11 incident in perspective eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceburat
Think before babbling shit.
i argue for a comprimise. suppose we all just kill canadians.
mi lai involved the premeditated rape and murder of noncombatents. it will forever stand as a testament to american stupidity, selfishness and inhumanity.
ceburate, you are a fool. read the history. it will challenge your silly patriotism. at least be intellectually honest and do the reading.
lastly. if my family were all killed by a missle from xistan, would i exact revenge on any/all xanites? no i wouldnt. why? because they had NOTHING to do with the deaths of my family. this isnt a football game. nationalism (and other isms) IS THE PROBLEM. fuck any man or god that says different.
When a soilder or soilders go crazy and kill innocent people that is very sad. However, it is not that soilders government that is willinglly killing innocent people even tho they are ultimately responsible. The US. GOVERNMENT itself does not order nor condon the killing of innocent people. All governments have the same kinds of problems with soilders. Soilders are people. They do crack under pressure, etc.
Most of the rest of the above responses to what I posted is mere trash. I HATE AMERICA type trash. So what?
so what? so read the information that is now out about mi lai. you are simply wrong. you can correct this error with perhaps an hours reading. are you willing?
Do you find it difficult to comprehend what you read in general, or only when you don't like what's being said?Quote:
Originally Posted by ceburat
This is not the first time several posters are talking to a wall trying to put their point across to you.
very intelligent reply there. nice to see open debate is still valued among the other posters on here. not much hope for you though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceburat
English is, God knows, 7th or 8th language to me. Is it your first language?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceburat
The M16s hanging on their shoulders, the bullets inside the magazine as well as the chamber, the humvees carrying them, the tanks beating the hell out of them, the aircrafts spitting fire, the aircraft carriers carrying the birds are all provided by the gov't and the training. Soldiers follow orders and execute accordingly that's their job. If they go against the orders their arses will be on line.
Please re-read the post (My Lai massacre) and also reply to this which I posted earlier:
So is there any difference b/w gov't and the everyday Americans?Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceburat
Do you really think there is a difference between the U.S. Government and the people. How in the hell do you think the government came to be?
So that puts all the beheading of American civilians and above all the 9/11 incident in perspective eh?
Think before babbling shit.
By the way, why shouldn't we hate American policies? What good they have brought the world so far?
I know everybody loves their country but your country's quiet fucked up, sorry for being so blunt. You guys went to Iraq to liberate Iraqis, RIGHT? The Iraqis can't even travel now although they are the second largest producers of oil!!! They don't have oil there dude. They have to que for several hours to get their vehicles filled. They ain't got no electricity nor security. They are homeless in their own country. If that's American liberation then fuck America and its liberation.
Do you know how many tons of depleted uranium has been fired in the civilian population in Iraq and Afghanistan since the invasion? Do you fucking know what does depleted uranium do to people? I bet your fucking gov't knew the consequences but still they didn't hesitate from using them. Fuck me man the radiation from depleted uranium (Uranium 238) stays for a good decade.
Please cite some sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceburat
Indo in 1965 when Suharto overthrew Sukarno, Cambodia, Guatemala, and many other places had civilians killed directly (not accidently) because of order from the upper echelons of the U.S. government.
Kindly cite your sources?:)Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkmanPlease cite some sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceburat
Indo in 1965 when Suharto overthrew Sukarno, Cambodia, Guatemala, and many other places had civilians killed directly (not accidently) because of order from the upper echelons of the U.S. government.
Some sources Booner? Well, from The Guardian :-
"Our bloody coup in Indonesia
Britain colluded in one of the worst massacres of the century
Isabel Hilton
Wednesday August 1, 2001
The Guardian
As Megawati Sukarnoputri struggles to hang on to control of Indonesia in the latest round of political upheaval, news has been published of how the British government covered up one of the worst massacres of the 20th century. The slaughter in 1965 - of up to a million alleged communist sympathisers - was carried out by General Suharto, who ousted Megawati's father, President Sukarno, to become Indonesia's military dictator. What is still less well known is that the British and American governments did not just cover up the massacre: they had a direct hand in bringing it about.
In the era of decolonisation and the cold war, ex-colonial powers were intent on preserving their economic interests in former colonies while setting up nominally independent governments. But the natives, inconveniently, did not always see their interests as consonant with those of their former colonial masters. Patrice Lumumba in the former Belgian Congo, Su-karno in Indonesia - both argued for economic as well as political self-determination.
Lumumba was assassinated with the connivance of Belgium, the US and the United Nations. In Indonesia, the British and American governments succeeded not only in engineering the result they wanted (the replacement of Sukarno with General Suharto), but in selling a false version of events that persists to this day.
Roland Challis, a former BBC south Asia correspondent, has described how British diplomats planted misleading stories in British newspapers at the time. But there is also evidence that the British and US responsibility for the fall of Sukarno goes back to the event that triggered it - an alleged left-wing coup attempt in 1965. The British were keen to get rid of Sukarno because he was pursuing a policy of confrontation with Malaysia. The US was convinced that Sukarno would drift towards communism - a far bigger potential headache for US interests than Vietnam.
Sukarno was hugely popular and an assassination would have unpredictable consequences: at worst, it might benefit the Indonesian Communist party, the PKI. The army was divided on the merits of a move against him. There was one man, though, who was willing to help - the commander of the strategic reserve, General Suharto. The challenge was to engineer Sukarno's downfall and, simultaneously, the elimination of the PKI.
In October 1965, a group of what are still described as "progressive army officers" kidnapped and brutally murdered six army generals, apparently in preparation for a coup. The motives of the group remain a matter of dis pute. At the time, they were alleged to be in sympathy with the PKI. They have subsequently been described as pro-Sukarno nationalists in revolt against their rightwing superiors. But a study carried out at Cornell University in 1966 discovered that what most of the officers had in common was not any association with the PKI, but a connection with General Suharto.
Lt Col Untung, the alleged leader, was a successful military officer who was a known anti-communist. Some of his colleagues had been trained in the US where it is unlikely that any communist sympathies would have escaped notice. Suharto subsequently dismantled the unit and the group's alleged links with the PKI became the pretext for the massacre of up to 1m people. After a series of closed show trials and staged confessions, the leaders were said to have been executed, but there is no independent evidence that the executions took place.
It has been known for more than 10 years that the CIA supplied lists of names for Suharto's assassination squads. What is less widely known is that the supposed pro-communist coup that triggered the crisis was almost certainly also the work of the CIA. Sukarno was finally removed from power in 1967. Suharto, meanwhile, was offered economic aid and the British lifted their embargo on sales of military aircraft. Suharto's massacres were whitewashed in a campaign of disinformation in which the British government willingly participated. The operation to "save" Indonesia, according to enthusiastic reports in, amongst others, the Atlantic Monthly, was a resounding success. "Suharto," Atlantic Monthly assured its readers, "is regarded by Indonesians who know him well as incorruptible ... In attacking the communists, he was not acting as a western puppet; he was doing simply what he believed to be best for Indonesia."
Best for Indonesia, in Suharto's view, was the granting of lucrative concessions to western mining and oil companies. It was the beginning of a post-independence economic order that continues today. After 32 years, Suharto was finally overthrown. By then, even the US government had to admit that he was one of the most corrupt dictators of the 20th century."
Our bloody coup in Indonesia | Guardian daily comment | Guardian Unlimited
Or Try - ITV - John Pilger - Spoils Of A Massacre
Quotes- ""In terms of the numbers killed," reported the Central Intelligence Agency, "the massacres rank as one of the worst mass murders of the 20th century." The historian Gabriel Kolko wrote that "the 'final solution' to the communist problem in Indonesia ranks as a crime of the same type as the Nazis perpetrated". [About 2/3rd down]
And- "In 1990, the American investigative journalist Kathy Kadane revealed the extent of secret US collaboration in the massacres of 1965/66 that toppled Sukarno and brought to power Suharto, who at the time was little known outside western intelligence circles. In a series of interviews with former US officials, she concluded, "They systematically compiled comprehensive lists of communist operatives. As many as 5,000 names were furnished to the Indonesian army, and the Americans later checked off the names of those who had been killed or captured."
And- "Having already armed and equipped much of the army, Washington secretly supplied Suharto's troops with a field communications network. Flown in at night by US Air Force planes from the Philippines, this was state-of-the-art equipment, whose high frequencies were known to the CIA and the National Security Agency. Not only did this technology allow Suharto's generals to coordinate the killings, it also meant that the highest echelons of the US administration were listening in."
Suharto stands as one of the worst mass murderers of the 20th Century, probably only behind Stalin and Hitler. He certainly makes Saddam and Milosevic look like juniors.
There are many, but the Pentagon is the source proves most credible to the supporters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
I'll try to google something soon.
However....these are historical facts and they have been known for over 30 years.
Portions of the article selected. Link below.
These casualties numbers have always varied. This is the low-end.Quote:
Ben Kiernan is A.Whitney Griswold Professor of History and Director of the Genocide Studies Program at Yale University, and author of The Pol Pot Regime (Yale University Press, 2nd edition, 2002).
Another report to the US Army in July 1973 stated....up to 150,000 civilian deaths resulted from the US bombing campaigns in Cambodia from
What an arrogant comment above.Quote:
The bombardment intensified to 3,600 tons per day. William Shawcross reported in Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon and the Destruction of Cambodia, that the "wholesale carnage'' shocked the chief of the political section in the US Embassy, William Harben. One night, he said, "a mass of peasants'' went out on a funeral procession and "walked straight into'' a bombing raid. "Hundreds were slaughtered.''
When US bombs hit a civilian warehouse in Afghanistan last year, US Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld responded: "We're not running out of targets, Afghanistan is.'' There was laughter in the press gallery.
Link & Entire: Yale > Genocide Studies Program > Publications
But, what was the aim of the bombing in Cambodia, and who was it aimed at?
Was this a deliberate targeting of civilians, or were these calculated casualties, "collateral damage"?
There is a difference.
Then there was Laos, different still.
None of it equates to deliberately killing civilian nationals for reasons of revenge and retribution.
I am just picking up the pieces, not making a moral judgment right now.
Got that right, Headmaster but is doesn't make good 'copy' for the American-bashers...:gwbush:Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
On the other hand, it clearly demonstrates the low regard for human life of humans in far away countries and an underlying arrogant attitude of the respective US govs, which has been one of the reasons people (voters) of US nationality have become so much hated wordwide. ;)
American bashers??Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon MeeGot that right, Headmaster but is doesn't make good 'copy' for the American-bashers...:gwbush:Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
Is telling the truth considered as American Bashing now?
I'm off paki bashing in a few weeks,'cause one of them pissed off me old man a few years ago.They are all the same aren't they.:rolleyes:
Well, what is the difference between the good Americans and the bad Americans. It's quite obvious that the Americans have no sympathy for the thousands being killed by their army. The ones who care are silent and the ones who don't are always babbling shit like Islam preaches terrorism, the problem lies in the religion and all that crap.
And for the Paki Bashing Little, fuck all Pakis. Does that make you feel any better?
Why is there a huge banner over this page saying "Israeli Life Israeli Lie"
Is Kerux responsible?
no.just replace pakis with Muslims,or short people. Does it really matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceburat
How can you say that with a straight face. I know it goes back along way, but are you telling me that the atomic bombs dropped on Japan, where not aimed at civilians?
Are you trying to tell me that the top brass in the American goverment is not condoning torture, with the extrodinary rendition, torture that I am sure will result in some deaths of innocent civilians.
Why does your OP refer to Americans as "friends" then?Quote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
Do you condone the killing of innocent American civilians?
If so, would you be willing to do it yourself?