Cyprus Redux: govts to steal bank accounts?

**barbaro** · 05-04-2014, 08:00 PM

We know what happened in Cypress.

The....up front tax....otherwise and aptly defined as stealing your savings out of your bank account at 3 am while you're asleep.

Can it happen again? On a bigger scale?

**Albert Shagnastier** · 05-04-2014, 08:24 PM

Socal was right - time to buy gold.

Having said that - even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Between 2015 and 2020 the global financial system will morph into something different.

**barbaro** · 05-04-2014, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Between 2015 and 2020 the global financial system will morph into something different.

Details, please.

**Albert Shagnastier** · 05-04-2014, 08:51 PM

I have no idea Barbaro. What you would guess though, is that when paper money and property becomes worthless, precious metals and stones will become currency (once again)

**Albert Shagnastier** · 05-04-2014, 09:02 PM

Have a look at this mate.

**Thormaturge** · 05-04-2014, 11:42 PM

Anything physical that is in demand, such as gold, food, water, oil etc. will increase in value as populations grow and demand rises. Land values will increase since there isn't any more being produced and there will be more need for it to produce crops and living space. Currencies will devalue as governments strive to keep up. Through devaluation and other means they will find ways of relieving people of cash....you really don't want to be sitting on too much of it.

There is no real alternative currency to the Dollar so it will retain its status as the world's reserve currency, even though its value will continue to decline.

Given the ease with which ordinary people can buy physical gold, and its commercial uses, I expect the metal to continue rising exceptionally in the long term.

**barbaro** · 06-04-2014, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

I have no idea Barbaro. What you would guess though, is that when paper money and property becomes worthless, precious metals and stones will become currency (once again)

James Rickards has a new book out: The Death of Money.

It is possible.

**Gilbert** · 06-04-2014, 10:53 AM

they can do it because when you put money in a bank, you are now "investing" in the bank. It is not your money at that point.

Clever bastards. Make you believe they will look after it, lose it all, then you have no claim to get it back.

**Iceman123** · 06-04-2014, 11:46 AM

No Gilbert - if I buy shares with my money, or subordinated notes in the Bank I am investing. If I deposit my funds it is only that and not an investment in the financial institution.

You are making sweeping statements that are not factual.

Can you please tell where you personally lost a Bank deposit as described?

**Bower** · 06-04-2014, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Iceman123

No Gilbert - if I buy shares with my money, or subordinated notes in the Bank I am investing. If I deposit my funds it is only that and not an investment in the financial institution.

You are making sweeping statements that are not factual.

Can you please tell where you personally lost a Bank deposit as described?

Read the 'Sandstorm' report re: BCCI Bank.

**Iceman123** · 06-04-2014, 01:19 PM

^
The BCCI was only interested in taking deposits. - never lending - you could deposit in the UK with no record and have the account held in IOM or any of the other BCCI branches you desired.

Your average depositor never even knew this bank existed - did you lose any money with them?

If I remember rightly the bank guarantee scheme covered 15k. This was never a mainstream bank and those of even limited nous avoided like the plague.

We are going back to 1991 - I hardly think this example legitamizes Gilbert's statement.

**Bower** · 06-04-2014, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Iceman123

^
The BCCI was only interested in taking deposits. - never lending - you could deposit in the UK with no record and have the account held in IOM or any of the other BCCI branches you desired.

Your average depositor never even knew this bank existed - did you lose any money with them?

If I remember rightly the bank guarantee scheme covered 15k. This was never a mainstream bank and those of even limited nous avoided like the plague.

We are going back to 1991 - I hardly think this example legitamizes Gilbert's statement.

I not suggesting it legitimises Gilbert's statement but as a resident of Brighton where they had a branch, I knew many people who lost money deposited with them.
They were a 'too good to be true' bank for me.
The list of known depositors is astonishing, Saddam Hussain, Noriaga, Chinese state banks, the CIA
108 branches across the world, I think plenty of people knew about them.

**OhOh** · 06-04-2014, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Socal was right - time to buy gold. Having said that - even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Tis always a good time to buy gold. Just ensure you don't give it to a "friend" or go boating/walk across fast flowing rivers with it..

**OhOh** · 06-04-2014, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by barbaro

Can it happen again? On a bigger scale?

The government backed insurance schemes are woefully underfunded. If you are relying on them be prepared for a long line of people in front of you and being paid in "revalued" government scripts.

**OhOh** · 07-04-2014, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Iceman123

If I deposit my funds it is only that and not an investment in the financial institution. You are making sweeping statements that are not factual.

Here is a sample of announced government actions intended to steal depositors money from their bank accounts. There are many more of course.

Zero Hedge | On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

Zero Hedge | On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

Europe Considers Wholesale Savings Confiscation, Enforced Redistribution | Zero Hedge

**Gilbert** · 07-04-2014, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Iceman123

No Gilbert - if I buy shares with my money, or subordinated notes in the Bank I am investing. If I deposit my funds it is only that and not an investment in the financial institution.

You are making sweeping statements that are not factual.

Can you please tell where you personally lost a Bank deposit as described?

You want to check the small print on your accounts then pal - You are investing in the bank now and you have no ability to claim them back.

**Iceman123** · 07-04-2014, 02:08 PM

^
Well if that was the case Gilbert the financial system would meltdown rather rapidly.

I will run out to the ATM and ensure it is still spitting out dosh and that no one has told it I have no ability to claim my cash deposited.

Your next argument shall be that paper money is only part of a belief system not backed by a gold standard.

Our monies held anywhere are ranked - as a depositor you are a creditor not an investor and stand in line just below secured creditors.

**Gilbert** · 07-04-2014, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Iceman123

Well if that was the case Gilbert the financial system would meltdown rather rapidly.

It is.

Just go into your bank and ask for a set of their conditions and have a read. I did not believe it either so with the 4 banks I use I checked.

This is why they can suddenly say "no one is allowed to take money out" or put limits on withdrawals.

Originally Posted by Iceman123

paper money is only part of a belief system not backed by a gold standard.

The day that banks were allowed to create money out of thin air, which they do by the millions every second is the day they took complete control, and inflation spread throughout the world.

**Iceman123** · 07-04-2014, 02:47 PM

Inflation has been with us since the beginning - the Roman Empire suffered from it.

Every fiat currency eventually collapses - but there is never a redistribution of wealth

**leemo** · 07-04-2014, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Iceman123

^
Well if that was the case Gilbert the financial system would meltdown rather rapidly.

I will run out to the ATM and ensure it is still spitting out dosh and that no one has told it I have no ability to claim my cash deposited.

Your next argument shall be that paper money is only part of a belief system not backed by a gold standard.

Our monies held anywhere are ranked - as a depositor you are a creditor not an investor and stand in line just below secured creditors.

I think the concept of paper money backed by gold was long ago filed under Q for quaint but impractical.

It would surprise me very much if there is not a standard microprint clause (which not one in a thousand customers reads and understands) for bank and investment accounts that allows the institution to take it all. Naturally only under extreme circumstances but that is relative, flexible and ultimately meaningless.

As for ATMs, they only work when there is money in them. It is said that the situation was so dire in 2008 that some high flyers called their wives from a critical meeting, and instructed them to take every ATM, credit and debit card, and other form of access to cash that they could, and get out there to harvest every cent they can. That may be an urban legend, but if so it is based on events that I believe will return to haunt those that ignore the past.

**OhOh** · 19-04-2014, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Gilbert

they can do it because when you put money in a bank, you are now "investing" in the bank. It is not your money at that point. Clever bastards. Make you believe they will look after it, lose it all, then you have no claim to get it back.

Originally Posted by Iceman123

If I deposit my funds it is only that and not an investment in the financial institution

Originally Posted by Iceman123

We are going back to 1991 - I hardly think this example legitamizes Gilbert's statement

Originally Posted by Gilbert

You want to check the small print on your accounts then pal - You are investing in the bank now and you have no ability to claim them back.

Originally Posted by Iceman123

but there is never a redistribution of wealth

The EU, not the Euro-zone, passed this last week legislation regarding "saving" too big to fall banks. Allegedly to harmonise procedures if and when the SHTF once again.

One of the new requirements is that all creditors, including depositors, will be required to pay 8% of the banks liabilities before any government money is available to help.

That's 8% of the banks liabilities, not 8% of depositors accounts. Whether that means 100% of their deposits or 1% remains I suppose on the amount of the liabilities.

EUROPA - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - EU Bank Recovery and Resolution Directive (BRRD): Frequently Asked Questions

With regards to ensuring a substantial % of your savings is held in physical gold in your possession, as advocated by socal amongst others. The selling price, or value, of gold in the Ukraine has risen 69%.

"Gold in Ukrainian Hryvnia (Sharelynx.com) Year to date, gold in hryvnia has surged by 69% from 9,992 per ounce to 16,880 per ounce or to put it more correctly, Ukraine’s national currency has collapsed by 69% against gold in less than four months.
This has resulted in the cost of food, fuel and basic staples surging for ordinary people in Ukraine

Once again, the lucky few who own physical gold are being protected from the currency collapse. They are in a position to buy food, water, property, land, businesses and other income generating and life sustaining essentials.
Thereby, once again showing the lack of knowledge and sometimes simple bias of those who claim that gold is not a safe haven and discourage investors from owning even a small allocation to gold.

Gold is protecting people and companies in Ukraine today and will do the same for people and families in other countries in the coming months and years."

The once again mirrors the benefit accrued in all countries which have undergone serious financial problems or similar circumstances.

**Mr Lick** · 19-04-2014, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

The EU, not the Euro-zone, passed this last week legislation regarding "saving" too big to fall banks. Allegedly to harmonise procedures if and when the SHTF once again. One of the new requirements is that all creditors, including depositors, will be required to pay 8% of the banks liabilities before any government money is available to help. That's 8% of the banks liabilities, not 8% of depositors accounts. Whether that means 100% of their deposits or 1% remains I suppose on the amount of the liabilities

It's difficult to understand how an organisation such as the EU can hold depositors responsible for high street banking incompetence and not the banks themselves.

How is it possible that incompetence and gambling frenzies can be rewarded with protection whilst holding the customer responsible with financial liability? Not even an opt-out clause?

I have long held a disturbing hatred for financial institutions together with a quite alarming distain for the EU empire. This is sadly yet another entry on that long list of contemptuous laws.

**Rainfall** · 20-04-2014, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by barbaro

We know what happened in Cypress.

The....up front tax....otherwise and aptly defined as stealing your savings out of your bank account at 3 am while you're asleep.

Can it happen again? On a bigger scale?

Yes indeed, we know what happened in Cyprus. One or two banks were folding because unlike governments, private enterprises go bankrupt every day, and had it happened most or all of the deposits of the investors would have been lost. That ominous entity 'The Government' actually safed them except for a small deductible.

Just a few days later the right wing comes along assuming we have forgotten as quickly as they do, spins it and incorporates it in their absurd propaganda and worship of the treacherous private sector.

**Tom Sawyer** · 20-04-2014, 08:00 PM

Okay - but we're all in the same boat. You can buy property, gold, farmland to grow food, etc., but in the end everyone would be fucked - you'd need to use it/sell it to buy food and survive. That's what happened int he 'dirty 30s' - didn't much matter. Although the richer you were the better off you were at getting through it. No surprise. You'd likely be more successful or better off as a pimp with a harem of young women giving BJs for a fiver ($10 USD)

**barbaro** · 20-04-2014, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by barbaro

We know what happened in Cypress.

The....up front tax....otherwise and aptly defined as stealing your savings out of your bank account at 3 am while you're asleep.

Can it happen again? On a bigger scale?

Yes indeed, we know what happened in Cyprus. One or two banks were folding because unlike governments, private enterprises go bankrupt every day, and had it happened most or all of the deposits of the investors would have been lost. That ominous entity 'The Government' actually safed them except for a small deductible.

Just a few days later the right wing comes along assuming we have forgotten as quickly as they do, spins it and incorporates it in their absurd propaganda and worship of the treacherous private sector.

And this mean the if you put money into a bank account, you damn well better be keeping track of it's non-performing loans and financial health. That's the problem sometimes.

A bank in my hometown had massive non-performing loans, corruption (money loaned to board members), and even a grocery store cashier borrowed $1.2 million. No joke.

The bank was shut down by the govt and "absorbed" into another bank. Not "tax" on deposits but the stock went to basically $0. I know people (that were dumb enough) to put lots of their savings in this stock.

What went wrong in Cyprus?

Before the financial crisis struck in 2008, Cyprus was seen to have a healthy economy, with high growth, low unemployment and sound public finances.

But during the good years, the island's banking sector grew rapidly. By 2011, the IMF reported that their assets - which include all the loans they have made - were equivalent to 835% of annual national income, or GDP. A chunk of that is down to foreign-owned banks, but those that are Cypriot had made loans to Greek borrowers worth 160% of Cypriot GDP.

When Greece became engulfed in crisis in 2010, Cypriot banks were hit hard, and the government did not have the money to bail them out itself. Government finances have been further weakened by slow economic growth and international lenders have stopped offering loans.

Negotiations on a bailout with the EU were delayed by the previous socialist government. President Nicos Anastasiades, a conservative who favoured a swift agreement with Europe, assumed office in late February.

Detailed FAQ on the Cyprus bank "tax" here: BBC News - Q&A: Cyprus deal

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