Thread: How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

It seems from the various reports that there are accusations of political subterfuge from both sides. i.e. underhand attempts to influence political outcomes. I do note that it seems that the US and the West is being held to a higher standard then the Russians in this matter.

The allegations from either side may be true or not. Probably we will never know but it is beside the point.

Political subterfuge to influence political outcomes in other territories is 'in the game'. Everybody knows this even though nobody will ever admit to doing it.

What is definitely not 'in the game' is massing military forces on a border to support an illegal annexation of strategic parts of your neighbour's territory. Forcible annexation against the will of a neighbour is a relic of the centuries past. Russia has broken a taboo standing for many many decades in engaging in this action. That is why their behaviour is such a threat to the 21st century world order.

BTW this is about oil and gas. At least in part. The deposits off the coast would likely soon make Ukraine independent of russian gas. Putin can't let that happen.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

The Ukrainians are not fanatical Muslim suicide bombers.

What about the Iraqis, were thay "fanatical Muslim suicide bombers"?

No they weren't - you slaughtered them for..

wait for it..

Originally Posted by Takeovers

oil and gas

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

No they weren't - you slaughtered them for..

He did? Takeovers you bad man!

Originally Posted by OhOh

there was no Russian Military Force in the air, firing cruise missiles from ships/airplanes/the ground, dropping bombs from 30,000 ft "stealth planes.

Well they do not have that capability.

Originally Posted by OhOh

No additional forces were deployed.

Oh really...

Originally Posted by bsnub

Well they do not have that capability.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Well they do not have that capability.

What, no Cruise Missiles, no ability to drop bombs or no "Stealth planes" (that we have been told of)? If they were stealth planes would we know about them?

No YuTub here, but I will take your word that they were Russian h/copters, were flying over The Ukraine in the last month and were not already in the Ukraine as part of the Treaty

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Why don't we just call Crimea the Puerto Rico of Russia.

In 1948, it granted Puerto Ricans the right to elect their own governor. In 1952, under request by the United States, a local territorial constitution was adopted and ratified by the electorate. Under the tenets of the Puerto Rico Federal Relations Act, Puerto Ricans are still subject to the plenary jurisdiction of the U.S. Congress, and the island continues as a U.S. territory.

Puerto Ricans love the states, there are more here than in their own country and they get all the benefits and freedoms of a US citizen to travel etc. not to mention all the perks of welfare and so on but without the taxes.

They have had both votes on legal secession and becoming a state and prefer the current standing, no one holds them by force of any kind.

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

Originally Posted by bsnub

What did you British do? Blow bubbles and hand out cotton candy?

The British joined the Bush/Cheyney/Rumsfeld war machine ONLY because we were fvcking lied and decieved by YOUR man (Tony Blair) in OUR government.

I always have to spit on the floor when I speak that little satans name.

Yes our man?? Here I was thinking you had the same freedoms of voting that we do? Oh well, another new thing I've learned today, Brits have no more rights then say an Iranian or even a Crimean, how sad for you to be so impotent... Because that's what it means to be an ally, standing with a friend in time of need, sometimes even when you may disagree, but in this case there was little disagreement and not just on behalf of Britain but with the majority of world powers, people always forget that little inconsequential ditty in their strawman arguments they present.

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

Here I was thinking you had the same freedoms of voting that we do?

Correct. Bliar was basically hand selected by a very very small minority of people to run as leader in one of the two political parties that are allowed to win an election and thus he had a 50:50 chance of becoming PM no matter how people voted.

About as free as "pick a card. Pick any card you like. Just pick a card from these two cards. Any you like".

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

standing with a friend in time of need

Why exactly are the US in need? why were the US in NEED to destroy Iraq and Afghanistan? What was this need exactly?

$$$$

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Tell me you are kidding. You don't get near 90% vote for anything in a free and fair election, not even for tax reduction.

98.5% Aye in the referendum of South Sudan on their independence. What about Sudan's constitution and territorial integrity? Nobody gave a shit in the West, let me give you a hint why, they have oil and gas.

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

that's what it means to be an ally, standing with a friend in time of need, sometimes even when you may disagree

The Ukrainian far right and violent Islamists in Syria are our friends now, are they? Of course not, they are just an enemy of our self appointed enemy.

And it is pretty obvious that we don't consider matters like the rule of law, democracy, public opinion and the popular vote to be particularly our 'friends' either- just our excuse, in times of need. When that excuse inconveniently does not fit (Ukraine, Syria etc), we'll just dredge up another one. But how can we, as people, blame our political leadership for their rampant hypocrisy- just look at our yellow apologists here.

Guess we got the political leadership we deserve.

^You're quoting an article - not my own words there.

However, your point is that politics is rotten, as we as people are rotten?

Bill Hicks - "we're a virus with shoes"?

There's an element of truth there for sure.

However, it's the US hypocrisy which is unpallatable in my opinion. Russia is defending it's borders only. Yet it's being admonished by a country whose foreign policy has killed millions of innocents in the last 20 years and is regularly and agressively "intervening" globally overtly and covertly.

If Putin was a big a twat as The Bushbama Co. Ltd (TM) we would already be weeks into a nuclear WW3.

Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier

However, your point is that politics is rotten, as we as people are rotten?

Yes, basically.

"We are all hypocrites"
Noam Chomsky


And fer what it's worth, I do not believe the prize hypocrites in this particular shitfight to be either Putin, or the people of Crimea.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Originally Posted by OhOh

No, a swiftly organised referendum, a near 90% vote, from all ethnic groups, for rejoining Russia. Legislation passed in the Crimean Parliament, legislation passed in the Russian Parliament, Seems very peaceful and intelligent.

Tell me you are kidding. You don't get near 90% vote for anything in a free and fair election, not even for tax reduction. If Putin would think he can win a free and fair internationally supervised referendum he would have gone that way. He did not.

People with russian ethnic background are barely more than half of the population of Crimea.The number of russian speaking are higher because russian was forced on them during Soviet times. And ethnic Russians would not all vote for joining Russia, many would prefer the EU just like in the baltic states. The vote for Russia from non ethnic Russians would be near zero.

Now tell me YOU are kidding !
The Ukraine had over 10 years to get their act together. What has happened ? Its one of the poorest and corrupted shitholes in the world. And who will pick up the tab thanks to the so called U.S. support for the Ukraine people ? Guess ? Germany....Dankeschoen !
Why do you think 90% vote is impossible ? Taxreduction ? Well, you got it almost right.
What would you vote if:
your pension almost triples ?
your health benefit gets better ?
public salaries go up ?
fuel costs go down ?
and while your enjoying all these benefits you're allowed to speak your own language and say "Na zdorovje".
Lets face it, Life in Russia looks a lot better.

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

Puerto Ricans love the states, there are more here than in their own country and they get all the benefits and freedoms of a US citizen to travel etc. not to mention all the perks of welfare and so on but without the taxes.

They have had both votes on legal secession and becoming a state and prefer the current standing, no one holds them by force of any kind.

^ And that is why I'am calling the Crimeans the Puerto Ricans of Russia.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

Puerto Ricans love the states, there are more here than in their own country and they get all the benefits and freedoms of a US citizen to travel etc. not to mention all the perks of welfare and so on but without the taxes.

They have had both votes on legal secession and becoming a state and prefer the current standing, no one holds them by force of any kind.

^ And that is why I'am calling the Crimeans the Puerto Ricans of Russia.

Save for the fact that we didn't annex them by force and the elections and voting by the citizens is free and real not virtual..

For the U.S., I don't think its about oil and gas so much this time. Most americans don't have the slightest clue where the Ukraine is on the map. They might even think its another planet .
My personal opinion is "Food glorious Food". Now guess who the vultures are in this vid ?


Ukraine is the fifth-largest wheat exporter and the third-largest corn exporter in the world. Does Monsanto ring a bell ?

Putin is a necessary evil, and a credible opposition to the dangerous Americans vision of military expansionism

you stop fire with fire, and the Americans being the biggest terrorists out there, need to be stopped with the full size and force of a nuclear country

in this day and age, the world needs very much China and Russia as an opposing force

Some farmers with a Lada take on an Ukrainian tank.

"According to Obama, the Kerry, Samantha Power, Jen Psaki and the rest of the US 1%ers, most members of the UN Security Council and according to the EU clowns at the OSCE or PACE, what you are seeing in this video is: "Russian agents creating chaos were there was none and spreading hatred".
According to the freaks of the neo-Nazi regime in Kiev, what you see are terrorists.
According to me, what you see is simple civilians willing to stand up in front of a tank with their car and their bodies to stop it. What I hear them say is "who the hell do you plan to shoot at? Stop the engine! Stop the engine! What are you pulling your assault rifle out for? Do you think that if we jump on your tank it will protect you?". Judging by the copious amount of cursing the civilians are really very mad because they are suspecting that this tank is headed for the city of Slaviansk. I would add that the poor tank crew is clearly frightened and ashamed and the tank commander does the only right thing: he climbs out of the tank, begs to crowd not to touch it (he is personally responsible for it) and tries to convince the crowd that they did not plan to shoot anybody. The tank commander looks like a nice young guy placed in an impossible situation, and I hope that the civilians will understand that. They are angry because initially the tank crew tried to avoid them. The good news is that I clearly hear a voice saying "stop screaming! stop screaming!" to try to cool down the angry crowd. And no, I don't see any Spetsnaz GRU in disguise or any sign of Russians at all."

video here:

14.04.2014. 19.30

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Putin is a necessary evil

Your homeboys think differently.

On Tuesday, March 4th, the Belgian Federal Government Committee held the session on the situation in Ukraine. After the meeting, Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo, Vice Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs Didier Reinders reported that Belgium called on the Russian side to respect territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine.
Belgium strongly condemns Russia's intervention and requires the return of Russian troops to their barracks. Elio Di Rupo called on to respect the rights of minorities and to protect their rights in Russia and Ukraine. In his opinion, the reduction of tension and start of a dialogue between the two parties remains the main aim.


Concerning the EU’s plans to impose sanctions, in particular the suspension of visa dialogue and freezing accounts, the Belgian Prime Minister believes that the main argument against the introduction of such sanctions is Europe’s dependence on Russian gas, which is 8 % of the total gas consumption of Belgium.


http://mfa.gov.ua/en/news-feeds/fore...iji-v-ukrajini


Like the rest of the Euro pussies Belgium will wring their hands and do nothing. Boo hoo. You want Russian gas. Eat Borscht.

Originally Posted by 9999

A fighter jet flew over a US navy vessel in the Black Sea a dozen times, ignoring the US attempts at radio contact. A pretty aggressive move that has got the yanks all up in arms.

It was an old tired jet. An Su-24. US systems identified that as a none threat. Dipshits like you think this is some is a threat.

Originally Posted by 9999

They wouldn't take too kindly though to RUssian Vessels parked off shore Cuba.

Originally Posted by Norton

Your homeboys think differently.

who cares what they think, they are being paid by the CIA and US lobbyists in Brussels for spouting the usual propaganda, their words have no meaning, so really, who cares.

Originally Posted by Norton

Like the rest of the Euro pussies Belgium will wring their hands and do nothing. Boo hoo. You want Russian gas. Eat Borscht.

indeed, let's hope Russia show the world and the Euro poodles what they are capable of, Putin is the man.