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  1. #5876
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Lavrov has worse carpet burns than he had.

  2. #5877
    Thailand Expat HermantheGerman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    I'm awaiting a report that whoever left the mat there has disappeared, according to MK's favourite source.
    The guy who passed on the video has already disappeared.

  3. #5878
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  4. #5879
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    ^ From what he said...

    TOKYO/LONDON, July 1 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin has raised the stakes in an economic war with the West and its allies with a decree that seizes full control of the Sakhalin-2 gas and oil project in Russia's far east, a move that could force out Shell and Japanese investors.

    The order, signed on Thursday, creates a new firm to take over all rights and obligations of Sakhalin Energy Investment Co, in which Shell (SHEL.L) and two Japanese trading companies Mitsui and Mitsubishi hold just under 50%. read more

    The five-page decree, which follows Western sanctions imposed on Moscow over its invasion of Ukraine, indicates the Kremlin will now decide whether the foreign partners can stay.

    State-run Gazprom (GAZP.MM) already has a 50% plus one share stake in Sakhalin-2, which accounts for about 4% of the world's liquefied natural gas (LNG) production.

    The move threatens to unsettle an already tight LNG market, although Moscow said it saw no reason for Sakhalin-2 deliveries to stop. Japan imports 10% of its LNG each year from Russia, mainly under long-term contract from Sakhalin-2. The action also raises the risks facing Western companies still in Russia.

    "Russia's decree effectively expropriates foreign stakes in the Sakhalin Energy Investment Company, marking a further escalation in ongoing tensions," said Lucy Cullen, a principal analyst from consultancy Wood Mackenzie.

    Many Western firms have already packed up, while others have said they would quit, but Putin's move adds complications to an already complex process for those looking for the exit. Moscow has been preparing a law, expected to pass soon, to allow the state to seize assets of Western firms which decide to go.

    Shell, which has already written off the value of its Russian assets, made clear months ago it intended to quit Sakhalin-2 and has been in talks with potential buyers. It said on Friday it was assessing the Russian decree.

    Sources have said Shell believed there was a risk Russia would nationalise foreign-held assets, while Putin has repeatedly said Moscow would retaliate against the United States and its allies for freezing Russian assets and other sanctions.

    Sakhalin-2, in which Shell has a 27.5% minus one share stake, is one of the world's largest LNG projects with output of 12 million tonnes. Its cargoes mainly head to Japan, South Korea, China, India and other Asian countries.
    MAKING PREPARATIONS

    Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia saw no grounds for halting LNG deliveries from Sakhalin-2 and said the future of other projects or investments would be determined case by case.

    "There can be no general rule here," he said.
    Japan, which depends heavily on imported energy, has said it would not give up its interests in Sakhalin-2, in which Japan's Mitsui has a 12.5% stake and Mitsubishi holds 10%.

    Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said on Friday that Russia's decision would not immediately stop LNG imports from the development, while Japan's Industry Minister Koichi Hagiuda said the government did not consider the decree a requisition.

    "The decree does not mean that Japan's LNG imports will become immediately impossible, but it is necessary to take all possible measures in preparation for unforeseen circumstances," Hagiuda told reporters.

    Japan has 2-3 weeks of LNG stocks held by utilities and city gas suppliers and Hagiuda has asked his U.S. and Australian energy counterparts for alternative supplies, he said.

    According to the decree, Gazprom keeps its stake but others must ask the Russian government for a stake in the new firm within one month. The government will decide whether to approve any request.

    Gazprom, Sakhalin Energy and the Russian energy ministry did not respond to requests for comment.
    A Mitsubishi spokesperson said the company was discussing with partners in Sakhalin and Japan's government about how to respond to the decree. Mitsui did not comment immediately.

    Shares in Mitsui & Co (8031.T) and Mitsubishi Corp (8058.T) slid more than 5% on Friday. Shell's shares edged higher.
    Shell Chief Executive Ben van Beurden said on Wednesday the company was "making good progress" in its plan to exit from the Sakhalin Energy joint venture without giving details.

    Sources had told Reuters in May that Shell was in talks with an Indian consortium to sell its stake. read more
    Russian LNG production from projects such as Sakhalin-2 was likely to suffer as foreign expertise and parts became unavailable, said Saul Kavonic, head of Integrated Energy and Resources Research at Credit Suisse.
    "This will tighten the LNG market materially this decade," he said.


  5. #5880
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    ^
    Shell announces intent to withdraw from Russian oil and gas



    Mar 8, 2022


    "Shell plc (Shell) today announced its intent to withdraw from its involvement in all Russian hydrocarbons, including crude oil, petroleum products, gas and liquefied natural gas (LNG) in a phased manner, aligned with new government guidance. As an immediate first step, the company will stop all spot purchases of Russian crude oil. It will also shut its service stations, aviation fuels and lubricants operations in Russia"

    Continues:

    Shell announces intent to withdraw from Russian oil and gas | Shell Global
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  6. #5881
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Shell announces intent to withdraw from Russian oil and gas
    Excellent, Russia fucked even more

  7. #5882
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Update.

    Russia seizes control of Sakhalin gas project, raises stakes with West

    By Yuka Obayashi

    , Emily Chow and Ron Bousso

    July 1, 202211:45 PM GMT+7

    • Putin signed decree to secure all rights on Thursday
    • Five-page decree follows tightening Western sanctions
    • Move raises risks for Western firms still in Russia
    • Shell was already in talks to sell up Sakhalin stake

    TOKYO/LONDON, July 1 (Reuters) -

    "President Vladimir Putin has raised the stakes in an economic war with the West and its allies with a decree that seizes full control of the Sakhalin-2 gas and oil project in Russia's far east, a move that could force out Shell and Japanese investors.

    The order, signed on Thursday, creates a new firm to take over all rights and obligations of Sakhalin Energy Investment Co, in which Shell (SHEL.L) and two Japanese trading companies Mitsui and Mitsubishi hold just under 50%. read more

    The five-page decree, which follows Western sanctions imposed on Moscow over its invasion of Ukraine, indicates the Kremlin will now decide whether the foreign partners can stay.

    State-run Gazprom (GAZP.MM) already has a 50% plus one share stake in Sakhalin-2, which accounts for about 4% of the world's liquefied natural gas (LNG) production.

    The move threatens to unsettle an already tight LNG market, although Moscow said it saw no reason for Sakhalin-2 deliveries to stop. Japan imports 10% of its LNG each year from Russia, mainly under long-term contract from Sakhalin-2. The action also raises the risks facing Western companies still in Russia.

    "Russia's decree effectively expropriates foreign stakes in the Sakhalin Energy Investment Company, marking a further escalation in ongoing tensions," said Lucy Cullen, a principal analyst from consultancy Wood Mackenzie.

    Many Western firms have already packed up, while others have said they would quit, but Putin's move adds complications to an already complex process for those looking for the exit. Moscow has been preparing a law, expected to pass soon, to allow the state to seize assets of Western firms which decide to go.

    Shell, which has already written off the value of its Russian assets, made clear months ago it intended to quit Sakhalin-2 and has been in talks with potential buyers. It said on Friday it was assessing the Russian decree.

    Sources have said Shell believed there was a risk Russia would nationalise foreign-held assets, while Putin has repeatedly said Moscow would retaliate against the United States and its allies for freezing Russian assets and other sanctions.

    Sakhalin-2, in which Shell has a 27.5% minus one share stake, is one of the world's largest LNG projects with output of 12 million tonnes. Its cargoes mainly head to Japan, South Korea, China, India and other Asian countries.

    MAKING PREPARATIONS

    Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia saw no grounds for halting LNG deliveries from Sakhalin-2 and said the future of other projects or investments would be determined case by case.

    "There can be no general rule here," he said.

    Japan, which depends heavily on imported energy, has said it would not give up its interests in Sakhalin-2, in which Japan's Mitsui has a 12.5% stake and Mitsubishi holds 10%.

    Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said on Friday that Russia's decision would not immediately stop LNG imports from the development, while Japan's Industry Minister Koichi Hagiuda said the government did not consider the decree a requisition.

    "The decree does not mean that Japan's LNG imports will become immediately impossible, but it is necessary to take all possible measures in preparation for unforeseen circumstances," Hagiuda told reporters.

    Japan has 2-3 weeks of LNG stocks held by utilities and city gas suppliers and Hagiuda has asked his U.S. and Australian energy counterparts for alternative supplies, he said.

    According to the decree, Gazprom keeps its stake but others must ask the Russian government for a stake in the new firm within one month. The government will decide whether to approve any request.
    Gazprom, Sakhalin Energy and the Russian energy ministry did not respond to requests for comment.

    A Mitsubishi spokesperson said the company was discussing with partners in Sakhalin and Japan's government about how to respond to the decree. Mitsui did not comment immediately.

    Shares in Mitsui & Co (8031.T) and Mitsubishi Corp (8058.T) slid more than 5% on Friday. Shell's shares edged higher.

    Shell Chief Executive Ben van Beurden said on Wednesday the company was "making good progress" in its plan to exit from the Sakhalin Energy joint venture without giving details.
    Sources had told Reuters in May that Shell was in talks with an Indian consortium to sell its stake.

    Russian LNG production from projects such as Sakhalin-2 was likely to suffer as foreign expertise and parts became unavailable, said Saul Kavonic, head of Integrated Energy and Resources Research at Credit Suisse.

    "This will tighten the LNG market materially this decade," he said."


    https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...es-2022-07-01/

    What does the decree say?

    "The presidential order creates a new Russian firm to take over all the rights and obligations of Sakhalin Energy Investment.

    Gazprom will retain its stake while the other partners have one month to indicate whether they want a share in the new company.

    If permission is denied by the Russian government, the stakes would be divested and the proceeds from the sale would be moved to a special account.

    The money could then be used to repay unspecified damages or be sent to the shareholder under the production sharing agreement, according to the decree. Those who chose to exit may not be fully compensated."


    https://www.rt.com/business/558205-sakhalin-project-russia-west/

    One suspects any payments due to foreign shareholders, to their "special accounts", will be in ₽.

    Similarly, for future LNG orders, from "unfriendly countries".

    Unless, more "friendly countries", offer more acceptable prices.

    How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?-putin-smile-trump-jpg


    Last edited by OhOh; 03-07-2022 at 08:01 PM.

  8. #5883
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Let's just fuck Russia's investment reputation eh Puffy?


  9. #5884
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Another glorious win for the West!

  10. #5885
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Another glorious win for the West
    BP and Shell have already made their money and written it off. Now Russia can sit on the asset as its value declines.

    Really Putin has done the world a favour.

    1. Push for accelerated phase out of fossil fuel dependency, switch to renewables/nuclear. - check
    2. Wake up the EU states from their NATO obligation slumber - check
    3. Formerly neutral countries join NATO - check
    4. NATO commitment strengthened - check
    5. Ukraine moves further away from Russia - check
    6. Russia loses all economic friemds aside from China and India - check
    7. Russia isolates itself on a global stage - check
    8. Russian people have a generation of what its like to live back in the 70's - check
    9. Russia loses any idea of conventional military superiority and is left threatening the world with Nukes - check
    10. Russia now has to suck off Xi's teat -Check.

    I cannot be bothered with listing the rest, there are too many.

  11. #5886
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    as its value declines.


    You are talking one of the Worlds largest integrated natural gas projects here.

  12. #5887
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    You are talking one of the Worlds largest integrated natural gas projects here.
    I am and one which is going to have to start considering where its customers are, the ever generous Chinkies and Wobblies will love it

  13. #5888
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Oh, the majority of the World cares about it's energy and food security as much as the self styled 'international community'. Pity that the 'international community' is wholesale losing it's stranglehold on these markets though, innit? Not.
    Last edited by sabang; 03-07-2022 at 10:12 PM.

  14. #5889
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Oh, the majority of the World cares about it's energy and food security as much as the self styled 'international community'. Pity that the 'international community' is wholesale losing it's stranglehold on thee markets though, innit? Not.
    ^ can you re-type that in a way that makes sense please.

  15. #5890
    Im bored AF Backspin's Avatar
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    Brand new apartments already under construction in Mariupol. 2500 will be built by September. They are free for affected residence

    Last edited by Backspin; 03-07-2022 at 11:55 PM.

  16. #5891
    Excommunicated baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    They are free for affected residence
    your mind is an affected residence

  17. #5892
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    "the World cares about it's energy and food security..."

    ... "it's appallingly biased coverage of these protests...."

    etc. etc.
    I care about what fucking chimp taught you how to use apostrophes.

  18. #5893
    Chinese spy sabang's Avatar
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    Sybil!

  19. #5894
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    BP and Shell have already made their money and written it off.

    1. Push for accelerated phase out of fossil fuel dependency, switch to renewables/nuclear. - check
    2. Wake up the EU states from their NATO obligation slumber - check
    3. Formerly neutral countries join NATO - check
    4. NATO commitment strengthened - check
    5. Ukraine moves further away from Russia - check
    6. Russia loses all economic friemds aside from China and India - check
    7. Russia isolates itself on a global stage - check
    8. Russian people have a generation of what its like to live back in the 70's - check
    9. Russia loses any idea of conventional military superiority and is left threatening the world with Nukes - check
    10. Russia now has to suck off Xi's teat -Check.
    You claim:

    BP and Shell have already made their money and written it off.

    "Written it off" as a loss?.

    Who have they sold their "investment" to?

    There are "unfinished discussions" I read. Any contracts agreed, signed and purchased yet?

    I suspect ongoing access to gas/oil resources is more valuable than plant building contracts.

    1. Push for accelerated phase out of fossil fuel dependency, switch to renewables/nuclear. - check

    They have promised too many things and broken their promises.

    What have they delivered - more coal-fired powers station usage.

    Returning to nuclear? When will these be producing electricity for their citizens?

    2. Wake up the EU states from their NATO obligation slumber - check

    Possibly awakened, what have they delivered to solve their problems? When will they be equipped to protect their citizens?

    (See an opinion of NATOS current problems below post:#5895 (How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?))

    Turkey, NATO joined at hips but think differently


    3. Formerly neutral countries join NATO - check

    What do those newly accepted countries bring to enhance NATO?

    4. NATO commitment strengthened - check

    How will NATO countries finance their new "promises to deliver" their "strengthening" ?

    5. Ukraine moves further away from Russia - check

    Yet to be delivered. Who will deliver it to their new land, where will the new Ukraine be situated?

    6. Russia loses all economic friemds aside from China and India - check

    The "west", 16% of the world's citizens are/were friends of Russia? The other 84% of the world's citizens are moving to Russia of NaGaStan + vassals?

    7. Russia isolates itself on a global stage - check

    Russia has been banned from the "western" stage by the 16%. Russia and others have and are accelerating many alternatives to the 16% cliques.

    8. Russian people have a generation of what its like to live back in the 70's - check

    Most of which enjoy living in Russia and according to Russian polling, 80+ % back the Russian government.

    9. Russia loses any idea of conventional military superiority and is left threatening the world with Nukes - check

    Russia is proving you wrong and proceeding at their pace, so far.

    10. Russia now has to suck off Xi's teat -Check

    Russia has growing financial power, trade partners, balance of trade .... , as opposed to the 16% and is being joined by those countries who wish to accompany them to a better destination.
    Last edited by OhOh; 04-07-2022 at 11:36 AM.

  20. #5895
    Thailand Expat OhOh's Avatar
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    July 3, 2022 by M. K. BHADRAKUMAR

    Turkey, NATO joined at hips but think differently


    "Turkey has had an uneasy history as a NATO member country. The push and pull of strategic autonomy constantly grated against a security guarantee the alliance offered and also a way of reinforcing its Western identity. The West wanted Turkey because of the Cold War.

    The enigma still continues: Was Turkey’s shift from neutrality to alignment a real necessity in 1951? Did Stalin indeed cast an evil eye on Turkish lands? Would any other Kemalist leader than Ismet Inounu, an unvarnished Euro-Atlanticist whose conception of modernisation implied cooperation with the West, have succumbed to the Anglo-American entreaties?

    The relations between Turkey and the Soviet Union remained relatively calm during the period of Turkey’s admission to NATO. In November 1951, Moscow actually directed a note to Turkish Government protesting the latter’s decision to participate in NATO, which asserted that “it is quite obvious that the initiation to Turkey, a country which has no connections whatever with the Atlantic, to join the Atlantic Bloc, can signify nothing but an aspiration on the part of imperialist states to utilise Turkish territory for the establishment of military bases for aggressive purposes on the frontiers of the USSR.”

    The ideological aspirations in becoming an integral part — at least within the framework of a military alliance — of Western world played a decisive role in Turkey’s decision in 1951, whereas, in reality, there was no imminent or explicit Soviet threat to Turkey. On the other hand, Turkey’s geographical importance to both the West and to the Soviet Union gave her a particular value in an East-West context, which, to her credit, Ankara would successfully leverage to its advantage through subsequent decades.

    Curiously, this complex inter-locking in some ways bears an uncanny resemblance to the current accession of Sweden and Finland to NATO. Russian President Vladimir Putin must have alluded to it obliquely when he told the media Thursday on the sidelines of the Caspian Summit in Ashgabat:

    “NATO is a relic of the Cold War and is only being used as an instrument of US foreign policy designed to keep its client states in rein. This is its only mission. We have given them that opportunity, I understand that. They are using these arguments energetically and quite effectively to rally their so-called allies.

    “On the other hand, regarding Sweden and Finland, we do not have such problems with Sweden and Finland as we have, regrettably, with Ukraine. We do not have territorial issues or disputes with them. There is nothing that could inspire our concern regarding Finland and Sweden’s accession to NATO. If they want it, they can do it,… let them do it. You know, there are rude jokes about stepping into unsavoury things. That is their business. Let them step into what they wish.”

    While returning from NATO’s Madrid Summit, Turkish President Recep Erdogan underscored that by lifting Ankara’s reservations about Sweden’s and Finland’s membership, he advanced Turkish interests and he added the caveat that their accession is far from a done deal yet, and future developments would depend on their fulfilment of commitments under the memorandum of understanding they signed in Madrid with Turkey.

    Indeed, both Sweden and Finland have bent over backward to give Turkey extensive anti-terrorism assurances that require changes in domestic legislation in return for Ankara withdrawing veto against accession talks. Erdogan insists that what matters are not their pledges but the delivery of those pledges.

    It is a tough sell domestically for both Sweden and Finland, since one of the pledges is the extradition of 76 Kurds, deemed as terrorists by Turkey. This is easier said than done, as the courts in Stockholm and Helsinki may have their own definition of a “terrorist”.

    The Turkish National Assembly’s ratification is a must for the Nordic countries’ admission to be formalised at NATO level. There is some speculation that the US President Joe Biden incentivised Erdogan to compromise, but, make no mistake, the latter’s warning about compliance by Sweden and Finland — as also the audible rumblings already on the left in Sweden — are reminders that the issue is still wide open.

    After all, North Macedonia had been a NATO partner country since 1995 but could become a NATO member in March 2020. And Greece’s reservation was that the newly independent former Yugoslav republic wanted to be known as Macedonia whereas Athens saw the name as a threat to its own region of Macedonia — and ultimately, Greece won. In comparison, Turkey’s concerns are tangible and directly impinge on its national security.

    Turkey was never a “natural ally” of NATO. How far Turkey subscribes to NATO’s latest strategic concept of Russia being a “most significant and direct threat” is debatable. Arguably, Turkey would feel more at home with the alliance’s 2010 doctrine that called Russia a “strategic partner.” This would need some explanation.

    Professor Tariq Oguzlu, a leading exponent of the changing dynamics of Turkish foreign policies in recent years from a structural realist point of view, wrote an analysis last week titled Madrid Agreement and the balance policy in Turkish foreign policy, which was interestingly featured by Anadolu, Turkey’s state news agency. Oguzlu explained the rationale behind Turkey’s decision not to veto the two Nordic countries’ accession:

    “Turkiye began to change its perspective on NATO a long time ago due to its strategic autonomy and multilateral foreign policy understanding… Considering the realist turnaround in Turkish foreign policy in the last three years, it is quite meaningful that Türkiye did not veto NATO enlargement..

    “On the one hand, the second Cold War between the West and Russia narrows the room for maneuver in Turkish foreign policy, while on the other hand, it increases Türkiye’s strategic importance. The most important challenge for Turkish foreign policy in the coming years will be the successful continuation of Türkiye’s strategic autonomy-oriented multi-faceted foreign policy practices in an environment of deepening international polarisation.

    “The balance policy pursued between the West and Russia is one of the most important strategic legacies left to the Republic of Türkiye from the Ottoman Empire. It is a strategic necessity for Türkiye, which has a medium-sized power capacity, to follow a policy of balance in order to achieve national interests. The policies adopted by Türkiye since the start of Russia’s war on Ukraine until now and the stance displayed at the last NATO summit in Madrid show that this historical heritage is embraced and successfully executed.”

    To put matters in historical context, in 1920, Mustafa Kemal formally approached Vladimir Lenin with a proposal for mutual recognition and a request for military assistance. The Bolsheviks not only responded positively but by throwing in their lot with the growing movement of Turkish nationalists, they helped shore up the new Turkish state’s southern borders. In the period from 1920 to 1922, Soviet Russia’s military help to Ataturk was almost 80 million lire — twice Turkey’s defence budget!

    In 1921 in Moscow, the two sides concluded the “Treaty of Friendship and Brotherhood”, which resolved the territorial disputes between the Kemalists and the Bolsheviks. The north-eastern border of Turkey established then remains unchanged to this day.

    However, both Moscow and Ankara understood that cooperation between Turkish nationalists and Russian communists would be short-lived. Soon afterward, Turkey deserted Moscow’s camp, banned the communist party, and, during the Nazi invasion, looked for an opportunity to invade the Soviet Caucasus if the Red Army collapsed. Nevertheless, Ataturk never forgot the help that Soviet Russia provided in his hour of need.

    A historical perspective is needed to understand the US’ manipulation of Turkey — and of Sweden and Finland in the present-day context. Biden is following President Harry Truman’s footfalls. Washington has used the very same Cold-War tactic to draw Sweden and Finland into the NATO fold as it employed 70 years ago with regard to Turkey. "

    https://www.indianpunchline.com/turk...k-differently/

  21. #5896
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    You claim:
    In this case he's right, Mainland-Man.



  22. #5897
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    Putin Crony: If You Punish Russia, We Might Just Nuke All of You

    The seemingly mild-mannered former Russian president the world once saw as a moderate counterbalance to Vladimir Putin says it’s “absurd” to think of punishing Russia for its war against Ukraine because the country has “major nuclear potential.” Dmitry Medvedev, the deputy chairman of Russia’s powerful Security Council, doubled down on comments he made in St. Petersburg last month in an unhinged tirade against the U.S. on Telegram early Wednesday. Calling proposals to prosecute Russia for war crimes “legally void,” he said any attempts to do so “potentially threaten the existence of mankind.” “The idea of ​​punishing a country that has major nuclear potential is absurd in itself,” he wrote, before launching into a rant against the “idiot” U.S. Citing America’s history of “senseless wars,” Medvedev appeared to argue that Russia should not be held to account for slaughtering thousands of civilians in Ukraine because the U.S. military did the same in Vietnam, Syria, and Afghanistan, among other countries. “So who is it that’s planning to arrange a show trial for us?… This will not work with Russia,” he declared, before going on to direct a citation from the Book of Revelations at the U.S.: “For the great day of his wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/putin-...ntial?ref=home

  23. #5898
    Thailand Expat harrybarracuda's Avatar
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    unhinged tirade
    Let's face it, if the top bloke is unhinged, it's only natural that the rest are too.

  24. #5899
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    ^arryism.
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybarracuda View Post
    if the top bloke is unhinged, it's only natural that the rest are too.

  25. #5900
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    ^arryism.
    He's not wrong in this case, though . . . you're either with Putin or . . . you're not in many ways.

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