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What Russia says bears no comparison to the truth or the reality of events. Russia cannot unilaterally declare any red lines, because it feels like it. The invasion, and the war is illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspin
In case you hadn’t noticed, George Bush and Donald Trump are no longer President of the USA.
Your ‘opinion’ has been found wanting in the past. Even more so now Putin has kicked off the totally unjustified and illegal invasion of its sovereign neghbour.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Spot on and fully agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Cow
Still doubling down on stupid, I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
I think a solid consensus is clearly formed to support that fact. He has no credibility left, none of the Three Stooges do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Switch
Except that isn't in NATO's power . . . Article 5 is very clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Cow
Another assessment is that you are now both dumb and dumberQuote:
Originally Posted by sabang
You posted a graph indicating an open at 16000 and a fall to 15600. Thereafter, a meander to, 15647 at 1:30 pm. Is the graph not evidence of a small decline?Quote:
Originally Posted by S Landreth
Allegedly the Ukraine leader's words:Quote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
"Speaking in the early hours of the morning from Kiev, Zelensky said he had reached out to “partners” in the West to tell them Ukraine’s fate was at stake.“I asked them – are you with us?” Zelensky said. “They answered that they are with us, but they don’t want to take us into the alliance. I’ve asked 27 leaders of Europe, if Ukraine will be in NATO, I’ve asked them directly — all are afraid and did not respond”
“We were left by ourselves. Who is ready to go to war for us? Honestly, I don’t see anybody. Who is ready to give Ukraine guarantees of NATO membership? Honestly, everybody is afraid,” the Ukrainian president added."
Ukraine ready to discuss neutrality, Zelensky says — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union
NaGastan/NATO fails to deliver "promises" again, evacuating all out the country, sounds familiar? They would have taken any gold and foreign currency if they hadn't stolen it years ago.
Which country will NaGastan/NATO destroy next by walking the walk to their own isolation.
I await boots on the ground, they are now being admitted, Russian troops have invaded Ukraine.Quote:
Originally Posted by pickel
The question is will they stay or withdraw once their objectives have been met, a la Georgia 2008:
5th August 2008 to 12 August 2008 - one week?
Russo-Georgian War
"The Russo-Georgian War[note 3] was a war between Georgia, Russia and the Russian-backed self-proclaimed republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The war took place in August 2008 following a period of worsening relations between Russia and Georgia, both formerly constituent republics of the Soviet Union.
On 5 August, South Ossetian presidential envoy to Moscow, Dmitry Medoyev, declared that South Ossetia would start a "rail war" against Georgia.[145] The razing of the village of Nuli was ordered by South Ossetian interior minister Mindzaev.[146] Georgian authorities organised a tour for diplomats and journalists to demonstrate the damage supposedly caused by separatists. That day, Russian Ambassador-at-Large Yuri Popov declared that his country would be involved in the conflict on the side of South Ossetia.
On 12 August, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev announced the cessation of the "peace enforcement" operation in Georgia. "The operation has achieved its goal, security for peacekeepers and civilians has been restored."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-...r#Early_August
or will they go the whole:
8-year-long splatter, splatter, .... of civilians, men, woman and children, a la the Nagastan/NATO v Afghanistan disaster slinking off in the night.
^7% vs 2.29%Quote:
Originally Posted by OhOh
:doglol:
That would mean risking nuclear war. Do you have kids ? Chicken hawkQuote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Cow
You are a war monger. Nuclear war mongerQuote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
https://media.giphy.com/media/kLGEjXf6yEMog/giphy.gif
A fairy tale to enjoy or scare the children ....
From the Black Sea to the East Med, don't poke The Russian Bear"This is what happens when a bunch of ragged hyenas, jackals and tiny rodents poke The Bear: a new geopolitical order is born at breathtaking speed.
The US shouldn't have poked the Russian Bear. Now it is fully awake: after Ukraine, the Russians are likely to do a clean sweep of foreign belligerents poking around the East Med and the Black Sea.
By Pepe Escobar
February 24 2022
From a dramatic meeting of the Russian Security Council to a UN history lesson delivered by Russian President Vladimir Putin and the subsequent birth of the Baby Twins – the People’s Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk – all the way to the breakaway republics’ appeal to Putin to intervene militarily to expel the NATO-backed Ukrainian bombing-and-shelling forces from Donbass, it was a seamless process, executed at warp speed.
The (nuclear) straw that (nearly) broke the Bear’s back – and forced it to pounce – was Comedian/Ukrainian President Volodymy Zelensky, back from the Russophobia-drenched Munich Security Conference where he was hailed like a Messiah, saying that the 1994 Budapest memorandum should be revised and Ukraine should be nuclear-rearmed.
That would be the equivalent of a nuclear Mexico south of the Hegemon.
Putin immediately turned Responsibility to Protect (R2P) upside down: an American construct invented to launch wars was retrofitted to stop a slow-motion genocide in Donbass.
First came the recognition of the Baby Twins – Putin’s most important foreign policy decision since inserting Russian jets into Syria’s airspace in 2015. That was the preamble for the next game-changer: a “special military operation…aimed at demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine,” as Putin defined it.
Up to the last minute, the Kremlin was trying to rely on diplomacy, explaining to Kiev the necessary imperatives to prevent heavy metal thunder: recognition of Crimea as Russian; abandoning any plans to join NATO; negotiating directly with the Baby Twins – an anathema for the Americans since 2015; finally, demilitarizing and declaring Ukraine as neutral.
Kiev’s handlers, predictably, would never accept the package – as they didn’t accept the Master Package that really matters, which is the Russian demand for “indivisible security.”
The sequence, then, became inevitable. In a flash, all Ukrainian military forces between the so-called line of contact and the original borders of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts were re-framed as an occupying army in Russian-allied territories that Moscow had just sworn to protect.
Get Out – Or Else
The Kremlin and the Russian Ministry of Defense were not bluffing. Timed to the end of Putin’s speech announcing the operation, the Russians decapitated with precision missiles everything that mattered in terms of the Ukrainian military in just one hour: Air force, navy, airfields, bridges, command and control centers, the whole Turkish Bayraktar drone fleet.
And it was not only Russian raw power. It was the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) artillery that hit the Armed Forces of Ukraine headquarters in Donbass, which actually housed the entire Ukrainian military command. This means that the Ukrainian General Staff instantly lost control of all its troops.
This was Shock and Awe against Iraq, 19 years ago, in reverse: not for conquest, not as a prelude for an invasion and occupation. The political-military leadership in Kiev did not even have time to declare war. They froze. Demoralized troops started deserting. Total defeat – in one hour.
The water supply to Crimea was instantly re-established. Humanitarian corridors were set up for the deserters. Ukrainian forces remnants now include mostly surviving Azov batallion Nazis, mercenaries trained by the usual Blackwater/Academi suspects, and a bunch of Salafi-jihadis.
Predictably, western corporate media has already gone totally berserk, branding it as the much-awaited Russian ‘invasion.’ A reminder: when Israel routinely bombs Syria and when the House of One Saudi routinely bombs Yemeni civilians, there is never any peep in NATO’s media.
As it stands, realpolitik spells out a possible endgame, as voiced by Donetsk’s head, Denis Pushilin: “The special operation in Donbass will soon be over and all the cities will be liberated.”
We could soon witness the birth of an independent Novorossiya – east of the Dnieper, south along Sea of Azov/Black Sea, the way it was when attached to Ukraine by Lenin in 1922. But now it would be totally aligned with Russia, and providing a land bridge to Transnistria.
Ukraine, of course, would lose any access to the Black Sea. History loves playing tricks: what was a ‘gift’ to Ukraine in 1922 may become a parting gift a hundred years later.
It’s creative destruction time
It will be fascinating to watch what Prof. Sergey Karaganov masterfully described, in detail, as the new Putin doctrine of constructive destruction, and how it will interconnect with West Asia, the Eastern Mediterranean and further on down the Global South road.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the ceremonial NATO Sultan, denounced the recognition of the Baby Twins as “unacceptable.” No wonder: that shift smashed all his elaborate plans to pose as privileged mediator between Moscow and Kiev during Putin’s upcoming visit to Ankara. The Kremlin – as well as the Foreign Ministry – don’t waste time talking to NATO minions.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, for his part, had a recent, very entente with Syrian Foreign Minister Faisal Mekdad. Russia, this past weekend, has staged a spectacular hypersonic and otherwise, featuring Khinzal, Zircon, Kalibr, Yars ICBMs, Iskander and Sineva – irony of ironies, in synch with the Russophobia-fest in Munich. In parallel, Russian Navy ships of the Pacific, Northern and Black Sea fleets performed a series of submarine search drills in the Mediterranean.
The Putin doctrine privileges the asymmetrical – and that applies to the near abroad and beyond. Putin’s body language, in his last two crucial interventions, spell out nearly maximum exasperation. As in realizing, not auspiciously, but rather in resignation, that the only language Beltway Neo-conservatives and ‘humanitarian imperialists’ understand is heavy metal thunder. They are definitely deaf, dumb and blind to history, geography and diplomacy.
So, one can always game the Russian military – for instance, imposing a no-fly zone in Syria to conduct a series of visits by Mr. Khinzal not only to the Turk-protected shady jihadist umbrella in Idlib but also the jihadists protected by the Americans in Al-Tanf base, near the Syria-Jordan border. After all, these specimens are all NATO proxies.
The US government barks non-stop about “territorial sovereignty.” So let’s game the Kremlin asking the White House for a road map on getting out of Syria: after all the Americans are illegally occupying a section of Syrian territory and adding extra disaster to the Syrian economy by stealing their oil.
NATO’s stultifying leader, Jens Stoltenberg, has announced the alliance is dusting off its “defense plans.” That may include little more than hiding behind their expensive Brussels desks. They are as inconsequential in the Black Sea as in the East Med – as the US remains quite vulnerable in Syria.
There are now four Russian TU-22M3 strategic bombers in Russia’s Hmeimim base in Syria, each capable of carrying three S-32 anti-ship missiles that fly at supersonic Mach 4.3 with a range of 1,000 km. No Aegis system is able to handle them.
Russia also has stationed a few Mig-31Ks in Syria’s coastal region in Latakia equipped with hypersonic Khinzals – more than enough to sink any kind of US surface group, including aircraft carriers, in the East Med. The US has no air defense mechanism whatsoever with even a minimal chance of intercepting them.
So the rules have changed. Drastically. The Hegemon is naked. The new deal starts with turning the post-Cold War set-up in Eastern Europe completely upside down. The East Med will be next.
The Bear is back, hear him roar."
From the Black Sea to the East Med, don'''t poke The Russian Bear
So now we should just give Putin everything he wants?Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspin
He's the one that's threatening nuclear war you idiot.
Hey, thanks for supplying all that expensive weaponry to Ukraine anglos- what a great boon they proved to be!
(A message from the Chairman of Raytheon)
Looks like Vlad will get what he wants- but at what economic cost?
Once again, showing your massive level of idiocy. Clearly lacking the intellectual fortitude to understand my comments. It really is all above your head, skiddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspin
He will eventually, but the economic cost has already been massive, considering that the Russian stock market already lost a third of its value and the ruble is now at a record low. It has only just begun.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Call it a Pyrrhic victory then. Obviously Putin knew in advance there would be a heavy economic price to pay- clearly, it was worth it to him and his top echelons.
My hope now is for the killing to cease as soon as possible. Sign a deal Zelensky. Or does Putin want to oust him too?
Shifting gears and changing your tune. As a former naval officer who was educated at a RAN school, it is a shame that you got this whole conflict completely wrong. How many of your old Navy buddies agreed with your previously posted bollocks?Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
He is on an unchecked rampage and this is a clear example why dictators are bad for humanity do you understand that now? So many people in the Ukraine that are dying and having their lives destroyed. I hope you sleep at night knowing that even in a small way you added fuel to this fire. You contributed to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Your naive hope will fall on deaf ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Good lord, are you still that naive? Putin is on a full-fledged rampage, and he may just choose to continue on to Berlin.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Save face however you want to try, but Ukraine is looking down the barrel of a devastating defeat, will not be joining Nato or further armed by the anglo west, anglo miliarisation of Ukraine has been shown to be stupid and futile, and it looks like Nato just stopped expanding. See the News thread- Zelensky wants to negotiate the terms of surrender.
Magnificent victory e'hhh. You have done absolutely no favors to the Ukrainian people. Or Europe.
Almost midnight, for you, and you have lost all touch with reality. Enjoy what you helped to start.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
THE LORD meets an advisor:
Attachment 83577
His updated message:
"The Minsk Agreements were codified in a UNSC resolution… 2022 on 7 Feb 15. This resolution contains the following relevant clauses and adoption statements:
1. The 13-paragraph “package of measures”, contained in Annex I of the resolution, called for a number of actions.
2. An immediate and comprehensive ceasefire in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine and its strict implementation as of 15 February 2022".
3. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides by equal distances in order to create a security zone."
4. Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment and mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine."
5. Disarmament of all illegal groups."
6. Reform of Ukraine with a new constitution entering into force by the end of 20122." That document had to provide for decentralization, as well as adopting permanent legislation on the special status of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in line with eight measures until the end of 2022."
Council members had also emphasized that perpetrators must be held accountable for the 2014 downing of the Malaysian airliner that killed 298 people.
Echoing a common view, the representative of France said it was the "Council’s collective responsibility to silence the guns”.
The representative of Germany said the resolution was of utmost importance, conveying a stern message to those who violated the ceasefire.
Agreeing, the representative of Ukraine called on the Security Council’s permanent members to prevent violations. ”
Russia may claim it’s action(s) in Ukraine are for the purpose of enforcing UNSC resolution 2022.
That such action was specifically called for by the Ukraine upon the resolution’s adoption, and such action includes removal of all NATO forces in Ukraine because they are “foreign forces” specifically required to be removed from Ukraine."
Do you have a link to The LORDS official speech where he made that threat? A FOX News video would be acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by pickel
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
Ukraine ready to discuss neutrality, Zelensky says
In an address on Friday, Zelensky said he is open to talking about the possibility of a neutral status for Ukraine, but insisted that his country needs third-party guarantees.
“We are not not afraid of Russia, we are not afraid to talk with Russia, talk about everything: security guarantees for our country and a neutral status. But we are not in NATO now – what security guarantees will we have? Which countries will give them?” he said, before adding that there should be talks to bring an end to the Russian military offensive.
Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday that “neutral status and rejection of hosting [offensive] weapons systems” are Putin’s “red lines” for Ukraine and that the ball was now in Kiev's court.
^Link?
^it's RT
:doglol:
Anyway, this thread can be closed now. How dangerous is Vlad? Answered.
^No. It's a matter of degree now
^^ No, leave it, at least you and the other two loons can confine your idiocy to in here. I still find your goading and laughing at the situation in its build up abhorrent.
And I don't give a fuck. How dangerous is Vladimir Putin? Answered.
^ That much is clear, you are just sad little old man who gets his kicks out of a country's peoples murder and suffering. Answered.
And little anglo boys should be very careful about playing with fire from now on. You played a large part in landing the people of Ukraine in this tragedy.
What played the biggest part in landing them in this tragedy was NOT joining NATO.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Why do you even still post here Mr. Chamberlain? Your opinions now mean nothing.
Spoken like a true anglo. No care taken, no responsibility accepted. And other people get burnt. Speaking as a brit/aussie, I am not ashamed to be anglo- but I am bloody ashamed of our politcal "leadership".
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickel
On the exact contrary. It was the US's idea since Bush's speech in 2007 till the implementation in 2014, Ukraine in Nato, that caused this. If the US wrote down that Ukraine should stay neutral, the war doesn't happen. Russia has never asked for Ukraine to join the CSTO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
You mean the leadership that took every step to ensure that this war would happen ? Yes. I agree.
The Three Stooges, still being dimwitted brainwashed fuckwits.
Of course he is dangerous. Always has been. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most dangerous, atm an 8. Will go up or down depending what happens over next few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by S Landreth
As a side note the leader of any nation with a large military and nucs is potentially dangerous as well and have proven so historically.
^^ Y'know, after Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, now Ukraine- you might have hoped something could just be starting to penetrate thick skulls. Sigh.
It's Ukraine's choice to make, not Putins. Ukraine gave up their nukes for political independence and freedom from Russian interference. Russia agreed to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspin
The putin arselickers are cheerleading his invasion.Quote:
Originally Posted by bsnub
Shows what characterless fucking airheads they are.
Oh yes let's try and change the subject again.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
You predictable fucking moron.
Oh, but you do give one, massively . . . your meltdowns here are both comical and embarrassing, for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
Is that why you repeatedly lick the arse of murderous dictators?Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
As you state, it is not THE LORD to decide, it is not Ukraine's government to decide. The international countries, signatories of the agreements, have already dictated the agreed the conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by pickel
You may wish to read the numerous international agreements the western countries signed.
The choices are there, yes, the requirements are there, yes, and the restrictions are there also.
One of which restricts certain adoptions, without regards to others rights. Ukraine and, it appears, many western countries are not able to read and obey the agreements they signed. To fully utilise, to support their stunted claims.
An illustration may assist your understanding:
Attachment 83594
Cherry-picking in Thailand.