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  1. #151
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    non-sense, in the late 90s, more USD were traded in Moscow than in the rest of the world, and the USD was the currency of reference in Russia

    nothing that the Fed could do about it but find ways to cooperate with the Russians on the issue of USD exchange, Moscow almost become the 13th Regional Federal Reserve Bank for that matter, and then came the EURO, and everything changed again.

    you were probably not even born then,

  2. #152
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    Why would Scotland want to use it ? Being an independent country with your currency controlled by the BOE makes no sense at all . The BOE would set the interest rates etc to what best suits the UK which could be completely different to what would suit an independent Scotland .

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    non-sense, in the late 90s, more USD were traded in Moscow than in the rest of the world, and the USD was the currency of reference in Russia

    nothing that the Fed could do about it but find ways to cooperate with the Russians on the issue of USD exchange, Moscow almost become the 13th Regional Federal Reserve Bank for that matter, and then came the EURO, and everything changed again.

    you were probably not even born then,
    The U.S $ was never Russia's official currency though , that is what we are talking about , Countries official currency .

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by malcy View Post
    Why would Scotland want to use it ? Being an independent country with your currency controlled by the BOE makes no sense at all . The BOE would set the interest rates etc to what best suits the UK which could be completely different to what would suit an independent Scotland .
    Scotland would have to have the Euro as its currency .
    Scotland already has its own banknotes , but independence would mean giving up its own banknotes and using the euro

  5. #155
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    Scotland would first have to meet the criteria for becoming part of the euro surely ?

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke
    The U.S $ was never Russia's official currency though , that is what we are talking about , Countries official currency
    it is in Zimbabwe though,

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke
    The U.S $ was never Russia's official currency though , that is what we are talking about , Countries official currency
    it is in Zimbabwe though,
    I suppose that Scotland could take that route , not having its own official currency and its people just use any currency they like .
    But then Scotland wouldnt be able to burrow money from the IMF and they wouldnt be able to join the E.U.
    Scotland could reduce itself to a Country with out its own currency and without a banking system , but that is a step backwards and Im csure that it would create many other problems .
    Its not a viable option

  8. #158
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    Barros, the EU president just said on UK tv that ' it would be very difficult, perhaps impossible for Scotland as an independant country, to get consent from all EU countries to join the EU.
    That makes using the Euro as difficult as the GBP.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bower View Post
    Barros, the EU president just said on UK tv that ' it would be very difficult, perhaps impossible for Scotland as an independant country, to get consent from all EU countries to join the EU.
    That makes using the Euro as difficult as the GBP.
    That would all Scots working in England having to leave or apply for work permits.
    Scotland would also have to have its own currency , which wouldnt be a major World hard currency .

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    Scotland can use any currency it likes, including the rupee.
    Scotland cannot use any currency if the issuing bank doesnt sanctions its use .
    Scotland cannot use the Pound unless the BoE says it can , and the BoE says that an independent Scotland cannot use the Pound
    You idiot. What Westminster has said is that Scotland can't expect the UK to underwrite Scottish debt and as such it will not have access to its printing presses. Sure, Scptland can use the £ as a de facto currency but it will have to buy it at the going rate.

    The Irish punt and the £ had a parity for a long time before Ireland entered the euro but towards the end it was trading at about £1.20. The money markets will fix the Scottish £ but parity with the £ sterling is doubtful and depends upon Scottish revenues, welfare commitments etc,etc.

    Unravelling union comes at a cost but I doubt the Scots have the intellectual power to comprehend that. The average person there is no different to his counterpart anywhere in the world and is therefore quite thick, fairly ignorant and quite, quite unimaginative.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    Scotland can use any currency it likes, including the rupee.
    Scotland cannot use any currency if the issuing bank doesnt sanctions its use .
    Scotland cannot use the Pound unless the BoE says it can , and the BoE says that an independent Scotland cannot use the Pound
    You idiot. What Westminster has said is that Scotland can't expect the UK to underwrite Scottish debt and as such it will not have access to its printing presses. Sure, Scptland can use the £ as a de facto currency but it will have to buy it at the going rate.

    (Reuters) - Britain warned Scotland on Thursday it would have to give up the pound if Scots voted to end the 307-year-old union with England, declaring the currency could not be divided up "as if it were a CD collection" after a messy divorce.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    Scotland can use any currency it likes, including the rupee.
    Scotland cannot use any currency if the issuing bank doesnt sanctions its use .
    Scotland cannot use the Pound unless the BoE says it can , and the BoE says that an independent Scotland cannot use the Pound

    I'm sorry. That is incorrect.

    Countries can use any currency they want to as legal tender. No permission is required.

    They can use US Dollars, sea shells, or gold bars.

    There are a number of banana republics and island states that use the US dollar. (I'm sure you can find out their identity with a search)

    What they CANNOT do is print their own US dollars. They have to rely on the existing money supply. They also are beholden to US interest rates.

    Scotland can use the Pound if it wants to, as it can use any foreign banknote as legal tender. They won't have any ability though to manage it themselves or have any say in monetary policy, nor be allowed a currency union (as George Osborne has said)



    Quute from yesterday's FT

    'Scotland could also insist it would continue to use the UK pound without a formal currency or banking union, but this would severely limit the new state's fiscal options, leave it with no say at all on monetary policy and put in doubt its status as a financial centre.'
    Last edited by The Ghost Of The Moog; 16-02-2014 at 10:49 PM.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ENT View Post
    Scotland can use any currency it likes, including the rupee.
    Scotland cannot use any currency if the issuing bank doesnt sanctions its use .
    Scotland cannot use the Pound unless the BoE says it can , and the BoE says that an independent Scotland cannot use the Pound

    I'm sorry. That is incorrect.

    Countries can use any currency they want to as legal tender. No permission is required.

    They can use US Dollars, sea shells, or gold bars.

    There are a number of banana republics and island states that use the US dollar. (I'm sure you can find out their identity with a search)

    What they CANNOT do is print their own US dollars. They have to rely on the existing money supply. They also are beholden to US interest rates.

    Scotland can use the Pound if it wants to, as it can use any foreign banknote as legal tender. They won't have any ability though to manage it themselves or have any say in monetary policy.
    Exactly !

  14. #164
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    I live in a place with an informal currency union. Hong Kong. Our currency is linked to the US dollar at a fixed rate of US$1=HK$7.78 - and we are blown by the monetary policy winds and interest rates coming over from the USA. Hong Kong has zero say over local interest rates with our currency union.

    In such a country, either existing foreign currency could be circulated, or ......(as in HK) a local currency printed which is backed by reserves of the US $.

    Scotland could do likewise - but it would be making a monetary sacrifice in sovereign terms.


    Links for you to check
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/23adb32c-9...#axzz2tV4nzFHy
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d59b3592-9...#axzz2tV4nzFHy


    Last edited by The Ghost Of The Moog; 16-02-2014 at 11:05 PM.

  15. #165
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    Good stuff,....all above few posts!

  16. #166
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    What a load of shit I've read in this thread.

    We own the pound too. If we leave the pound we also have no legal commitment to pay our share of the national debt, ALTHOUGH, we have agreed to pay our share regardless.

    In their report published last year the group, made up of internationally renowned economists including two Nobel Laureates , concluded that sharing the pound in a sterling zone was the best option for Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom. Let us recall for a second who comprises the membership of that working group: Professor Sir James Mirrlees, Professor Joseph Stiglitz, Professor Andrew Hughes Hallet, the Irish economist Frances Ruane and chaired by the former Chief Executive of Scottish Enterprise.

    I make the point because the chancellor seemed totally unaware of the amount of work and analysis that has been devoted to this question and the strength of the commission who carried it out. Their report set out in detail why the proposed currency union differed fundamentally from the Eurozone and set out how and why it would work. They also detailed a robust framework for its success.

    In his intervention Mr Osborne chose not to engage with the points made by the Fiscal Commission Working Group. He chose instead to present a misleading caricature of the macroeconomic framework they presented. He said the Scottish Government had not attempted to offer answers to the questions posed by the Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney in what I thought was an excellent speech in Edinburgh 2 weeks ago. In fact the Fiscal Commission Working Group had anticipated these questions a year in advance. Indeed the only economist cited by Governor Carney in his speech - with the exception of Adam Smith himself - was Sir James Mirrlees!.

    Let me offer just three examples. The Fiscal Commission – on pages 140-149 – sets out how a financial regulation would work. Mr Osborne cited the size of the Scottish financial services sector as a reason why he could not recommend such an arrangement. However in a recent statistical publication, HMRC estimated Scotland’s share of the Bank Levy (effectively a charge on the balance sheets of banks) to be 7.3 per cent of the UK total – smaller than Scotland’s share of UK GDP - not the near 25 per cent which the Treasury has estimated and on which the Chancellor’s remarks are based.

    This Treasury achieved its inflation of the Scottish financial sector by simply allocating London based assets to Scotland. For example the greater part of the banking assets allocated to Scotland is the RBS markets division which is located in the city of London, has always been located in the city of London, is now 80 per cent owned by Her Majesty’s government and in any case will soon be ring fenced by the Vickers reforms!

    I have published an analysis which demonstrates the full extent of - how shall I describe them – the misunderstandings - in the Treasury analysis. Until these London based assets are placed beyond country guarantee they would have to be secured by London government under any constitutional arrangement. Despite that the Fiscal Commission set out proposals for how we could proceed jointly and co-operatively with shared risk. In other words, one of the Chancellor’s key arguments rests on a misrepresentation.

    The Chancellor also said UK tax-payers would have to transfer money to an independent Scotland in times of economic stress. They would not. The Chancellor said such a shock could occur if there was a sharp fall in the oil price. In fact the Fiscal Commission Working Group recommended a stabilisation fund to address this very point. The fund would mean money will be built up when the oil price is high to smooth out price fluctuations if the oil price was low. The Chancellor cited between 2008 and 2009 when oil prices fell as his example. In fact in both years with oil prices low and oil prices high Scotland’s finances were healthier than the UK – in 2008/9 by a lot and in 2009/2010 by a little.

    The Fiscal Commission did recommend a fiscal sustainability agreement with overall objectives for ensuring that net debt and government borrowing do not diverge significantly. But these would be sensible rules that any country, whether in or out of a currency union, would seek to adhere to. Such an agreement would allow control over fiscal levers, employment policy, competition policy and a range of other policies which would in turn boost economic resilience. Some of those levers are detailed on page 203 of the Fiscal Commission report.
    In full: Alex Salmond's speech on currency union and independence | Politics | News | STV
    Lang may yer lum reek...

  17. #167
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    Also from the same Source:

    'Project Fear'

    After the SNP’s victory in the 2011 election the Westminster government, initially at least, demonstrated a welcome spirit of co-operation. Of course there were some exceptions to that rule. When visiting the North East of Scotland in November 2011 the Chancellor of the Exchequer declared that he knew that merely having the referendum was putting-off inward investors.

    Since then inward investment has surged to new highs in Scotland and our unemployment rate is now 6.4 per cent compared to the UK average of 7.1 per cent. Mind you these are small errors compared to most Treasury forecasts!

    However in 2012 the Prime Minister and I signed the Edinburgh Agreement to ensure the referendum on independence would take place in a legal and consensual manner. In that agreement both governments vowed to respect the result of the referendum, whatever the outcome, and to work together constructively in the best interests of the people of Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom. That was the basis of clause 30 of the Edinburgh agreement.

    In the event of a yes vote that spirit of constructive cooperation will indeed take place. After all, it is in everyone’s mutual interest for that to happen.

    However we are now in a campaign period and the Conservative-Liberal Democrat Westminster government has abandoned co-operation and that has been echoed by figures in the Labour Party who should know a great deal better. For example on Thursday George Osborne peppered his speech with references to Scotland as a “foreign country”. Let me be clear. For Scots whether independent or not, the rest of the UK will never be “foreign”. Indeed the Government of Ireland Act of 1948, negotiated after infinitely more difficult circumstances than we have, specifically states that Ireland is not to be regarded as a “foreign country”.

    And so despite the Chancellor’s campaign rhetoric I don’t believe his “foreigner” language represents any significant view in Scotland or indeed England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

    Then there’s the UK diplomatic offensive against independence. A previous Foreign Office Permanent Secretary once told me that we should regard the Foreign Office as Scotland’s Foreign service. Clearly not now! And in the last few days, panicky briefings suggest that even a Yes vote on September 18 might not be respected in direct contradiction of not just the spirit but the letter of the Edinburgh Agreement. I have asked the Prime Minister to repudiate any such suggestion, promptly and categorically or better still, let me put it to him directly in a debate - perhaps in this very city of Aberdeen next week.

    With all this accumulated negativity, it’s little wonder the no campaign calls itself Project Fear.

    But we should be clear that what is said by Westminster during the heat of a political campaign will differ from the reality of life after the referendum. In the event of a yes vote the campaigning will stop and the common-sense agreements will start. Clause 30 of the Edinburgh Agreement will kick back in.

  18. #168
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    A simple view is this:

    Scottish Independence in 5 points


    I have to admit, I grew up thinking that Scottish Independence would be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then I started to realise, it’s a bit like separating conjoined twins, it’s not as simple as putting Rabbie Burns head on the £ and getting on with it. I’ve watched the debate so far, and although I was naturally leaning towards Yes! I still had to be persuaded and here is why (so far) I have been.

    Rabbie
    Rabbie (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

    OIL

    Both sides have been endlessly bickering about how much North Sea oil is left and how much it is worth and while I agree this is important, it’s not the be all and end all. The No campaign would have you believe that there is enough oil to last until 2015 and it’s worth twa bob. The Yes fellas have it at endless and worth a trillion per person. The one fact remains, this planet does not have 40 years worth of oil usage left in it. If we are still producing oil in 2050, this planet will have more to worry about than us like, where did Holland go? Remember we used to be able to see the sun? The future is sustainable energy, solar, tidal and wind. That’s the ace up Scotland’s sleeve and in the words of Meat Loaf ”2 out of 3 ain’t bad.”

    Alex Salmond

    This is a total non-debate. I’m refusing to make a decision about the long term future of our nation based on the personality of a 58 year old man. In the event of a Yes vote, he does not become President or King, his position doesn’t change. If you refuse to vote Yes because you don’t like Salmond are you voting No because you like David Cameron? Because that is the logical conclusion of that argument.

    No Camapaign

    This is one of the most horrid and downright nasty campaigns I’ve ever seen. It’s just scare tactic after scare tactic. It’s an awful, negative debate based on lies and fiddled statistics paid for by corrupt oil money, backed up by Scottish Labour MPs towing the Westminster party line fearful for their own political futures. Guys that are burning their bridges and running down their own nation for their own political advancement. Then there is George Galloway. He wants freedom for everyone, except his own people. That’s because George is a joke in his own country and in the event of Independence worries there will be no place in London for his loud mouth shock Jock shtick.

    Honestly, if you want to win people over, do it by selling why the Union works not why Scotland doesn’t. Which takes me to my next point.

    Why Do They Want Us?

    Now, we have had to watch on for three years as the Tories with their lickspittle Liberal Lapdogs destroy Britain, strip it bare like vultures draining the last profit from the every last available source. The poor are now scroungers, there is a new thing called Working Poor, the NHS is being privatised in all but name, Royal Mail has been sold on the cheap.

    They tell us, that Scotland can’t survive alone, they tell us that we take more than we give in this Union. So why would the party of the rich, the party of profit, the party that puts £’s before people, why would they want to continue to subsidise a whole nation, when they won’t even subsidise a disabled person’s spare bedroom?

    For me this is the light that shines upon the lie, Scotland is not a drain, if it was they would have cut us loose, they would be leading the Yes campaign. Ask yourself, Why do the Tories want Scotland?

    Fairer Society.

    This takes me to the crux of the issue. I want, and I know many of my fellow Scots do as well, our children to grow up in a fairer society. A society that cares about the poor, a society that does not send it’s young to all corners of the globe fighting illegal wars, a society that places human dignity higher on the balance sheets than Royal Weddings.

    I want English people to have that, I want Welsh people to have that, I want all people in all countries to have that. If it means Scotland separating itself from a broken and corrupt system in order to build this new fairer society, a society that can act as a template for a new way of doing things, a new way of treating each other, well I’m going to vote Yes!
    Scottish Independence in 5 points | Universal Service

  19. #169
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    So you can argue til the cows come home that Scotland can't support itself financially.

    The English honestly believe through bullshit English media that Scotland costs more money than it makes. That we are a financial strain and burden.

    So why fucking keep us?

    Why fight for a no vote?

    Just cut your losses and cut us free.

    Oh that's right, you NEED us and we NEED rid of you.

    Vote YES.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler View Post
    So you can argue til the cows come home that Scotland can't support itself financially.

    The English honestly believe through bullshit English media that Scotland costs more money than it makes. That we are a financial strain and burden.

    So why fucking keep us?

    Why fight for a no vote?

    Just cut your losses and cut us free.

    Oh that's right, you NEED us and we NEED rid of you.

    Vote YES.
    More English people want Scottish independence that Scottish people do .

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog View Post

    Countries can use any currency they want to as legal tender. No permission is required.

    gold bars.

    Heh, yeah. Libya tried that and look what it got them.....

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluke
    More English people want Scottish independence that Scottish people do.
    Yes but that's equally as fucked up as Scottish people not wanting Independence.

  23. #173
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    I wonder whether Scottish people living and working in England will be given the option of obtaining U.K residency , or will they be given their marching orders and told to leave the U.K. and go back to Scotland ?
    I suppose that depends on Scotland getting E.U. membership , which is doubtful

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler
    The future is sustainable energy, solar, tidal and wind. That’s the ace up Scotland’s sleeve
    Britain is an island, that applies equally to everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler
    Alex Salmond


    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler
    No Camapaign
    Frankly, I'd shake their hand, sincerely wish them the best of luck and say goodbye. I think the majority would.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler
    Why Do They Want Us?
    Not particularly. But, the Scots are respected as an important member of the union.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirk diggler
    Fairer Society.


    The yes campaign is full of nonsense. If the Scots go it alone they would be following nationalist propaganda dispensed by folks who will personally benefit. This would be a mistake, and in 10 years time they will be considerable worse off.

    But, good luck to them. If they do create a paradise then maybe we can follow their lead. I see that as a 1-5% possibility. I see 50% chance of an awful failure.
    Cycling should be banned!!!

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    If you have a spare half hour, this is worth a listen.


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